Members droolmaster0 Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Yeah but it's a belief, not a sentence. I'm not sending anyone to hell. I'm not the one who determines whether people will go to hell or not, and I'm not even the one who determines whether there is a hell or not. Now here is where our conversations generally degenerate, because you don't listen. I'm not suggesting that you have a say in the matter (if so, we all appreciate that you post to this forum). I'm saying that you express your belief that we WILL burn in hell, which (last I looked) isn't generally the nicest way to spend eternity. So, you imply that you're not judgemental, and at the same time you say that we will be judged as evil and burn in hell. This is just offensive to many people - and the point really isn't whether you agree with that, but that you try to understand why this is so. Reality exists regardless of people's beliefs, and if hell does exist, it will exists regardless of whether you and I believe in it or not. So I can't see how you can be offended by someone else's belief. Well, someone might believe, for instance, that because I am of Jewish background, I am evil, and should be put in a concentration camp. They may have no ability to enforce this view, but in and of itself, the belief is offensive. Beliefs can be offensive to other people, and you don't seem to acknowledge that because yours has the disclaimer, 'I'm Jesus, and I approve of this message'. Throughout this thread I've identified myself as an evangelical christian for that reason. But I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. I'm only commenting on what you have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 no...we force you to have a choice if you want to have one or not. if you wanna get stupid about it I learn stupid at your little red hoofs, nOOb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scorpio01169 Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 I learn stupid at your little red hoofs, nOOb. I don't think you had to learn stupid...it came natural to you. and I'm no noob, i just don't post here a lot although i read a lot here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 I don't think you had to learn stupid...it came natural to you. and I'm no noob, i just don't post here a lot although i read a lot here. Then disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Complete and total cop-out response. If given the chance? You have to realize that. What about Jesus Camp turned your stomach? There was no leading. There were no interviews. It was purely documentation. What about that was so reprehensibly left-leaning? How about misleading the vieweres into thinking the children were worshiping Bush? Just to give one example. The whole thing was assembled in a way to make sure it gets its point across. And about stereotyping...assumption is not stereotype. I had asked you if you saw the film a few posts ago. You didn't say you had, but instead went on to suggest reasons why you wouldn't see it. That was deliberately misleading on your end. Well that was a LONG time ago wasn't it? But I'm sorry if you felt misled. I didn't even remember when we had this conversation a while back. I wasn't really intending to see it but I ended up seeing a part of it and also some youtube bits (the whole thing is also on youtube, or at least was). I was mad because there are a lot of things that were shown that I know were not the reality of the place. Also, the woman who led the camp was completely misguided in some things she said, like calling opposing religions as "enemies". Even the bible doesn't say that - it says our enemies are not people but spiritual beings. She didn't make that clear (or it was edited out). Not that it really matters. We're only debating ideas here...not ourselves as individuals. I think all of this is healthy! And i luvvs the CR. (Also CR, I'm not uninformed, thnx) You were uninformed about Bush not doing anything to revert Roe vs. Wade. He has done what he can - through the legal means. I don't think that's something anyone who is pro-life has overlooked, even if christians can also be critical of him at times. And yeah, I the akliner as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kuniklo Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 It doesn't matter what you think of McCain, a vote against Obama is a vote against New Nazism. I mean, if you ever wondered how an "intelligent, sophisticated" electorate could allow someone like Hitler to ascend to power, wonder no more because you are witnessing it right here during election '08. Wow. I thought all the people like you were hunkered down in Idaho waiting for the big one and refusing to use the internet. Nazism actually means something. Maybe you could show a little respect for the millions it killed by trying a little harder not to trivialize it so spectacularly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasonbmerrill Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 im not voting. (im sure the repubs love me for it but it is what it is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasonbmerrill Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 How about misleading the vieweres into thinking the children were worshiping Bush? Just to give one example. The whole thing was assembled in a way to make sure it gets its point across. can you please tell me how they werent? because by my bible training i have i think there is no way that ISNT worship:wave: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ClavAnother Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 if you don't want to vote, why not vote for Bob Barr, and at least make a statement that you'd rather be free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasonbmerrill Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Then disappear. wait you dont seriously think that people are "pushing" abortion on you, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasonbmerrill Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 if you don't want to vote, why not vote for Bob Barr, and at least make a statement that you'd rather be free no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Wow. I thought all the people like you were hunkered down in Idaho waiting for the big one and refusing to use the internet. Nazism actually means something. Maybe you could show a little respect for the millions it killed by trying a little harder not to trivialize it so spectacularly? I'm most certainly not trivializing the Holocaust. You just don't see, or refuse to believe, the depth of my conviction. By the way, what are your thoughts on Israel and it feeling the need to defend itself on all its borders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Now here is where our conversations generally degenerate, because you don't listen. I'm not suggesting that you have a say in the matter (if so, we all appreciate that you post to this forum). I'm saying that you express your belief that we WILL burn in hell, which (last I looked) isn't generally the nicest way to spend eternity. So, you imply that you're not judgemental, and at the same time you say that we will be judged as evil and burn in hell. This is just offensive to many people - and the point really isn't whether you agree with that, but that you try to understand why this is so. Well I have a belief that people choose where they will go. And I have the hope that everybody I talk to will eventually reach out to God's extended hand, even if it's just before their last breath, and even if it's because they thought "well I guess I have absolutely nothing to lose". Still, if it's an opinion that doesn't get forced on anyone, I don't think anyone should be offended. All religion would have to be prohibited if that was the case (and people would be offended at that idea, too). btw - now that I really learned to appreciate your sense of humor underlined in your comments, between the points you make, I actually look forward to having a conversation with you. Well, someone might believe, for instance, that because I am of Jewish background, I am evil, and should be put in a concentration camp. They may have no ability to enforce this view, but in and of itself, the belief is offensive. Beliefs can be offensive to other people, and you don't seem to acknowledge that because yours has the disclaimer, 'I'm Jesus, and I approve of this message'. I'm only commenting on what you have said. If I believed that *I* had to do you harm for whatever reason I believed you deserved it, then you would be completely right in saying I should have no right to express such belief. It's not the case though, I'm sure you can see that. According to the bible, I'm supposed to be nice and if possible serve and help those who are unbelievers, and be friends with them, so that they will see the love of Christ, and so that people won't have the wrong idea of who God is. If what I was saying was that I wish certain people to go to hell, that would be offensive too. But as I said above, I don't wish that anyone goes to hell. I know you'll say, "well but you say anyone who doesn't agree with you goes to hell and that's offensive". I'm not the originator of the belief, so it's not me or christians you'd be disagreeing with - I believe it's God in human form who gave us this doctrine. So he would be the one to come up to and say "hey, I don't agree that I have to agree with you to go to heaven". Who knows, it might be the start of a good conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Oh yes, can any of you Obama supporters interpret for me what the messiah means by "Civilian National Security Force"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's always about "Jesus hatemongers", "pseudo-christian idiots" and all that stuff. Every leftist I know blames evangelical christians for 8 years of Bush administration, and thinks that literal bible belief is what makes Palin an abomination (I also believe the bible literally, am pro-life, etc). But go on, I guess my attempt to derail the thread has failed Um, guess what: even other right-wing types are starting to do the same thing. Let us say nothing about the Christian religion as a whole: it is how Christianity has coupled itself into politics in America. In order to be Christian, do you *have* to oppose homosexuality and abortion? Heck, in order to be Christian, do you *have* to be Republican? No, you don't have to. Yet the populist pundits are coming damn close to stating such things. James Dobson's hysterical letter on a future America with Obama is a classic point. What's "Christian" about this letter? Heck, what's "family" about this letter? This is fearmongering, plain and simple -- 100% apocalyptic politics. There are kinder and gentler Christian religions, even fundie ones, out there -- I actually think that the influence of Dobson dogma is starting to die. However, dislike of American Christianity will continue until Christian politics -- especially the anti-intellectual type, and the type too tied to rural WASP identity politics instead of the Bible -- fades to the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 can you please tell me how they werent? because by my bible training i have i think there is no way that ISNT worship:wave: Why do you say they were? Because they were kneeled down by the Bush image? They were talking to God, who is a spirit and not an image, and they were interceding for our government, as all Christians should do. And any christian knows that we pray go God and not to things. I call BS on you having bible training, unless it's catholic training (they make tons of images and will pray to anything. Sorry if some here are catholics, but it's true... there's some catholic churches where people get into where they have literally hundreds of Rome-approved images of saints, and people pray to each and every one of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 There are kinder and gentler Christian religions, even fundie ones, out there -- I actually think that the influence of Dobson dogma is starting to die. However, dislike of American Christianity will continue until Christian politics -- especially the anti-intellectual type, and the type too tied to rural WASP identity politics instead of the Bible -- fades to the background. In favor of radical Islam. Or God-less secular humanism. Are those better than Christianity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scorpio01169 Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 wait you dont seriously think that people are "pushing" abortion on you, do you? he doesn't really think that....thats just the only argument they have against pro-choice people. being pro-choice doesn't me you'll actually get pregnant with the intent to have an abortion......it just means that if a woman gets pregnant, she has the choice to do whats right for her. ChristianRock, this question is for you. you talk about moral, but was it moral for Sarah Palins daughter to get pregnant out of wedlock let alone be having sex out of it. you evangelist are the first to call everyone other than you Godless, but when one of your own does something not to the standards you wanna hold us to you are quick to defend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kuniklo Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 By the way, what are your thoughts on Israel and it feeling the need to defend itself on all its borders? I tend to think that founding Israel was a mistake in the first place but that's another thread. Why is it that for you wingnuts it's always 1939? Where is Obama's Mein Kampf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delicious Lamprey Problem Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 U GUISE! SRSLY I GUISE! Last time we had a thread that went this way, Paulo had horrendous menstrual cramps and Gus had to rush to the store to buy a bottle of Tylenol and a supa-size pack of Maxi Pads. Maybe we should stop now before The Moderator Summoning Ritual is complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scorpio01169 Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 By the way I voted for Obama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 By the way I voted for Obama Huge shock there. :bor: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Or God-less secular humanism. Are those better than Christianity? I don't know. Perhaps ask the Founding Fathers? I'm sure Jefferson would have some words about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Why do you say they were? Because they were kneeled down by the Bush image? They were talking to God, who is a spirit and not an image, and they were interceding for our government, as all Christians should do. And any christian knows that we pray go God and not to things. I call BS on you having bible training, unless it's catholic training (they make tons of images and will pray to anything. Sorry if some here are catholics, but it's true... there's some catholic churches where people get into where they have literally hundreds of Rome-approved images of saints, and people pray to each and every one of them). That's not true, CR. Anyone, regardless of the religion they subscribe to, is capable of being materialistic, and does not understand, appreciate and/or respect the greater truth. I guarantee you there are people of your faith who prayed to win a football game, or the lotto. There's a point where dogma becomes irrelevant and "religion", or more precisely "God", transcends the shackles of the human capability to comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kuniklo Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Oh yes, can any of you Obama supporters interpret for me what the messiah means by "Civilian National Security Force"? Let's apply Occam's Razor here and take an intelligent guess: http://volokh.com/posts/1216451854.shtml This has prompted some in the blogosphere to raise the specter of a huge new domestic paramilitary organization. Others suggest that he may have been talking about our Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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