Members raffor Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Actually what I find hilarious is that the McCain campaign is calling Obama a socialist and sizzlemeister is calling him a fascist. I'd really like to know how he can be both. Sizzle missed the last briefing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 There are many Americans - especially those who've traveled and have a more global perspective - who understand how important it is to win back the respect and trust of other nations in a post-9/11 world. Unfortunately, there are also large numbers of people here with strong nationalistic and isolationist tendencies wrapped up well-intentioned, yet narrow-minded patriotism. What advantage is there for a nation politically or economically to having a rock-star President? We had no special advantage with Clinton who was "popular" abroad. Did you feel more safe being an American when Clinton was President?Do you think Americans travelling around the world being Americans has something to do with people not liking Americans visiting their country? Even today, despite "the economy" we're still the land of good-n-plenty and cowboys, throwing around our money, asking for this, wanting that. It'll take a right, proper, fascist gov'nor to start erasing that stereotype. You're believing in MYTH, you drank the Koolaid. Do you honestly believe Obama being President is going to have ANYTHING to do with how individual Americans are perceived abroad? Does it matter who the Prime Minister of England is when you run across a saucy Brit? Does it matter Hu Jintao is President when you run across some Chinese folk leaving old clothes piled up outside their tour buses at the factory outlet mall? There are plenty of inane reasons to justify buying into the Legend of Obama, but this particular one is among the top three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Actually what I find hilarious is that the McCain campaign is calling Obama a socialist and sizzlemeister is calling him a fascist. I'd really like to know how he can be both. What I find hilarious are idiots who think that because someone opposes Obama, then they must be McCain campaigners, let alone supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Why do these threads always result in name-calling and pronouncements of intellectual and/or political superiority ... ??? No wonder they always get locked ... If this thread is somehow representative of the American political scene, I guess there's good reason to be cynical, dispirited and ultimately disconnected ... (Unless I'm being overly distracted and agitated by a couple of rabble rousers ... ) The point of the thread was to state who you're voting for ... and maybe why ... There's no need to fall into the old patterns ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 What I find hilarious are idiots who think that because someone opposes Obama, then they must be McCain campaigners, let alone supporters. no, its pretty clear your a right wing nut job. also, from your comments about the choice of president reflecting on the country's image, its obvious you havent been outside the country recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 What I find hilarious are idiots who think that because someone opposes Obama, then they must be McCain campaigners, let alone supporters. BTW, great argument! I am glad that it was not me you called idiot this time!!! Wait a moment, you just did!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Why do these threads always result in name-calling and pronouncements of intellectual and/or political superiority ... ???What, you actually expected something different this time? Why? Every single political thread here turns into this, each and every time. It makes me wonder why you started the thread in the first place, you knew what would happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Why do these threads always result in name-calling and pronouncements of intellectual and/or political superiority ... ??? No wonder they always get locked ... If this thread is somehow representative of the American political scene, I guess there's good reason to be cynical, dispirited and ultimately disconnected ... The point of the thread was to state who you're voting for ... and maybe why ... There's no need to fall into the old patterns ... Ever visited Democrat Underground, or watched an episode of Keith Olbermann?Ever put a pro-Republican sign up on your lawn or bumper sticker on your car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keybdwizrd Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sizzle, international opinion of Mr. Bush has not had any effect, ever, on my travels. As I said, my observation is that overseas there is an anti-Bush sentiment, not an anti-American sentiment. And I am not Mr. Bush. Forgetting about tourism, because that's not what's really important here, do you believe there is any value to Americans, whatsoever, in having a president (and government in general) that is liked, admired, and respected by the governments and peoples in countries such as the UK, France, Italy, and Germany, just to name a few? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ever put a pro-Republican sign up on your lawn or bumper sticker on your car? Maybe you can guide me to a bumper sticker with Hitler on it to replace my Obama08 sticker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Yes. Keith Olbermann turns my stomach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sizzle, international opinion of Mr. Bush has not had any effect, ever, on my travels. As I said, my observation is that overseas there is an anti-Bush sentiment, not an anti-American sentiment. And I am not Mr. Bush. Forgetting about tourism, because that's not what's really important here, do you believe there is any value to Americans, whatsoever, in having a president (and government in general) that is liked, admired, and respected by the governments and peoples in countries such as the UK, France, Italy, and Germany, just to name a few? Thank you; a good question. The governments of the UK and France, especially, are just fine with Bush and Americans in general. President Sarkozy seems quite enamored of the USA if his public comments are any indication. And, Africans (those living in Africa) LOVE President Bush.I think for Americans travelling abroad it would be much more welcome to see graffiti which reads "Long live the USA," or "We love President Bush" rather than "Go Home Americans!" or "Bush is a killer!" Of course, on the surface, you'd feel more safe I guess. But, this applies mainly to tourism which doesn't answer your question - but I can't think of anything that matters outside of tourism. Can you? Lay it on me.We lead the world in international charity, both from government and non-government sources. It's fair to say we are considered the equalizer when it comes to the balance of military power and aggression (the world's policeman). Our market is massive and has among the deepest pockets.International politics and economics aren't based on personal feelings between individuals, they're based on strategies and resources. In some cases honor still plays a role. These are chess games where each side only cares about the desired outcome, not making friends. If friendships are made in the process, then that's great, but a friendship between world leaders means little especially when we're talking nations whose leadership changes every so many odd years.So, no, I don't see any particular advantage to having a President who is liked or disliked. You can be liked or admired, and still be an asshole and do horribly nasty things. You can be a total dickhead with a flat personality, but still be respected for the work you do and the reasons you do it.As far as I'm concerned, if the aim is to please as many countries as you can for the sake of pleasing them, then you're doing something wrong. The more you try to please, the more compromises you have to make. I am more interested in the strength of the country being maintained as long as possible. It doesn't matter to me, and it doesn't matter to the process, if the leaders involved in the process have some magical charisma or not. It doesn't matter to me if a group of people in a French cafe like or respect our President. What matters is that the best interests of the nation are being served with as few compromises are possible.What will happen if under Obama our economy tanks and takes the European economy with it? Do you think Obama will be "respected and admired" then? Do you think all of those Germans would have shown up to "support" Obama without all of the free beer, pizza, bratwurst, and a concert right beforehand? I mean, if that's what it takes to win the respect of Europeans, then whoever wins should do a European tour first thing after taking the oath, making sure there is plenty of free beer, pizza, bratwurst, and concerts to go along with their speeches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Oh, the what if game! One of my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Yes. Keith Olbermann turns my stomach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 You don't like to goto the mat? You've had a political avatar for months now. Maybe we should spell out what exactly going to the mat entails so we're all on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 You don't like to goto the mat? You've had a political avatar for months now. Maybe we should spell out what exactly going to the mat entails so we're all on the same page.Is someone with an Obama/Biden bumper sticker on their car going to the mat with their politics? What about someone with an "impeach Bush" sticker - is that taking their politics to the extreme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 I can't comprehend anyone putting any bumper sticker on a car. But I think you bring it to the mat, so there's an inconsistent definition of what that is exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 I can't comprehend anyone putting any bumper sticker on a car. But I think you bring it to the mat, so there's an inconsistent definition of what that is exactly. And so it shall be to you, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b3keys Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Hildog for Prez!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Why do these threads always result in name-calling and pronouncements of intellectual and/or political superiority ... ??? No wonder they always get locked ... If this thread is somehow representative of the American political scene, I guess there's good reason to be cynical, dispirited and ultimately disconnected ... (Unless I'm being overly distracted and agitated by a couple of rabble rousers ... ) The point of the thread was to state who you're voting for ... and maybe why ... There's no need to fall into the old patterns ... I have to point out that, despite how ugly it is, this IS American politics. If you were to study American history and focus in on the politics, what you're seeing, in terms of the public "debate", is what you'd call routine. Even the "partisanship" and most of the crap we see these days that is just sheer ugly in Washington, it's normal.That's why Clinton was okay. I don't like his politics nor do I think his Presidency was particularly impressive, but he was American politics all the way. What is not normal are the things I've have already stated relative to the Obama campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 I think for Americans travelling abroad it would be much more welcome to see graffiti which reads "Long live the USA," or "We love President Bush" rather than "Go Home Americans!" or "Bush is a killer!" Yes, we all think. There is not wrong with it, but we are talking here about people who are actually traveling to different countries (you know, those who buy airline tickets). I would assume that these people do know more than somebody who is just thinking. Also, even if people do not openly tell you up to your face (you know, those who are not living in the STATES and might chose to be quiet because of pitty), it is still embarrassing for us outside the boarders (period). Now, that might change when you travel in countries of the coalition of the willing. But I would think, NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keybdwizrd Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 And btw, I can attest that Sarkozy is a big fan of Palin as well: Palin- Sarkozy. This would be funny, if it just weren't so embarrassing, and so sad.Actually, it's still funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 What, you actually expected something different this time? Why? Every single political thread here turns into this, each and every time. It makes me wonder why you started the thread in the first place, you knew what would happen! Counting this one, I think I started three of the last four major ones ...I was really hoping for something different this time around ...I MUST BE INSANE ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 I was really hoping for something different this time around ... You DO know the definition of insanity, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted November 3, 2008 Members Share Posted November 3, 2008 Haha the documentary on Sarah Palin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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