Members The Lou-Dog Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 People, you're missing the bigger picture here. If you're talking about guns, I've got news for you - That's ancient technology! In fact, nuclear weapons are almost 70 year old tech... If we, as a planet, don't learn to get the hell along, and sort out the psychos, thugs and evil sociopaths (before they can do harm), well these terrible tragedies are going to happen over, and over, and over again. That is until something MUCH worse occurs, and thank god it hasn't yet P.S. Holding hands and singing "We are the World" didn't change anything, except to make people feel all warm inside for 6:24 - 7:09 minutes, if they could stomach it. Better public support for Mental Health would be nice, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seth Carmody Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 America was formed by the armed citizen.Maybe what you really want is totalitarianism and not individual liberty?Uh, slavery was actually a leftover from feudalism.Your ignorance of history is sooo daunting (like the average Ah-MeriKan), I won't even try to bring you up-to-speed...EOT So, individual liberty is sooooo sacrosanct that any opposition to unrestricted gun ownership is tantamount to support for governmental totalitarianism, and yet your solution to prevent these recurring tragedies is the creation of a national psychological profile database for every American and the sort of governmental powers to compulsorily treat, institutionalise and "constrain" those people unfortunate enough to fall below the threshold of what is decreed "normal" that one would expect to find in an Orwell novel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 I'd agree that the regulations need some change for sure. I just feel like if a dude has the plan to kill, he's going to do it by any means. Who knows, if he hadn't found guns today and gotten his hands on explosives or knives or poison or whatever, this same dumb topic wouldn't have been hit. When people immediately bring up gun laws in a story like this it's almost like they're giving the dude a pass and saying he would have just watched tv today and not killed a bunch if kids had his mom not had guns...that's absurd, this guy had a plan. I don't think that's what people are saying at all. They're saying the guns made it worse because they're easy to use, easy to come by, and efficiently kill lots of people compared to most other weapons besides, perhaps, a bomb, but bombs have to be made because we don't allow the public to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AxAxSxS Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 I don't think that's what people are saying at all. They're saying the guns made it worse because they're easy to use, easy to come by, and efficiently kill lots of people compared to most other weapons besides, perhaps, a bomb, but bombs have to be made because we don't allow the public to have them. If you have access to a simple chemistry textbook, you can easily construct all kinds of horrific devices. Hopefully anyone stupid enough to do so blows themself up in the process. Look at how may people make meth. Its not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papercutnoise Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 If you have access to a simple chemistry textbook, you can easily construct all kinds of horrific devices. Hopefully anyone stupid enough to do so blows themself up in the process. Look at how may people make meth. Its not that hard. For the love of God! Seriously, take your head out of the sand and look at what is being said. Guns are EASY to come by in America. Making explosive devices, while not impossible to build, require a lot more study, planning and take time to construct. That means in the heat of the moment it is far more easy to simply go grab a gun than it is to go online, study bomb construction, acquire the required materials, and construct a bomb. I'm so out of this conversation at this stage. Way too many shortsighted hypocrites out there. If I was to defend the right for everyone to carry knives and your mother/daughter/sister/wife gets stabbed on the street, and I came to offer my condolences, you can be sure that you would want to rip my throat out. As far as I am concerned, the blood of those children is on the hands of every single firearms defender. Don't offer condolences, make a bigger gesture and sort your out your {censored}ed up laws to protect your future generations. Or if you want to keep things the way they are, then prepare to accept the inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lazaraga Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Within a few years we'll have enough statistical data to pinpoint these freaks before they snap. For now we should punish/execute his remaining family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RUExp? Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by boytbpc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hurtzher Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Let it be known that I am a Christian and I do not agree with this mans viewpoint....WOW! SMH..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 I'm just gonna copy what some other people said in other things I've read because they said it better than I ever could: Part of the responsibility of any society is to be careful of kneejerk reactions to tragic events. The Federal Government's kneejerk reaction to the September 11 tragedies only multiplied the tragedy, and got us involved in 10 year wars in the Middle East.The tragedy in Connecticut was not done by a gun. It was done by a person, who could have used countless other ways to perpetrate heinous acts...as Timothy McVeigh did in Oklahhoma.In fact, the shooting took place in a gun free zone. Possession of any firearm on school property is illegal. Obviously, a person can get a gun from one area and bring it to another area. They already do that with drugs, which is why even prisons cannot keep drugs out.Outlawing guns will not make them vanish. It will just make them as easy for criminals to get as marijuana. And if we somehow do get rid of all guns, it will not make evil and heinous acts stop. It will just make them happen with fertilizer bombs, gasoline, or even knives, as happened today in China:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...bings/1770395/ Evil does not come from what is in the hands of a man. Evil comes from what is in the heart of a man. Evil men will do evil with whatever they can get their hands on. Good men will do good what whatever they are given. If we want to ask hard questions in the coming days lets ask them. Lets look in the mirror as parents and ask ourselves, "What have we planted in the hearts of our children that would make them think it's OK to solve their problems and grievances by murdering innocent people and taking their own life when they are done?" What are we teaching our kids as parents? What are we not teaching our kids? What media are we allowing them to consume and what effect does it have? What are their peers teaching them? Do we try to know or even care? What are our schools teaching or not teaching them? If we look to government to solve a societal issues it will ultimately fail. We need to look at ourselves, and we need to take action. I'm afraid we have planted seeds in the past that are bearing the worst fruit imaginable. Do everything you can to plant good seeds, that bear good fruit in your children. Attacking the tool used is a bandaid. And when a bandaid fails the wound is no better off than before. What we are teaching, or not teaching, our children is the answer. Teach them well, bring them up right, hug them, tell them you love them. Be involved, there is not substitute on earth for time invested in your children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9520575 Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 You got to be {censored}ing {censored}ting me that people who thinks guns are not the a issue here. Your in {censored}ing denial.Your {censored}ed. And i hate your opinions. I hope we can ban personal fire arms in the USA. Thats how I'm voting. There no argument about this {censored}, {censored} you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9520575 Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 ALSO PHIL GOOD CALL LEAVING THIS OPEN AND ALL THE HAUNTING MIDS THREADED LOCKED RIGHT AWAY!COOL {censored} BOSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arthurdent'd Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Chuck knows what's up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fortytwo Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by humancertainty I'm a militantly pro-gun non-republican/conservative. Just putting that out there although it's irrelevant to what I want to post. Firearms are an ingrained part of American culture. It would simply not be possible to outlaw them. They are not going anywhere. If you're not an American, you simply can't understand that. I've been shooting guns since I was five years old. Essentially my whole life that I can remember has been around guns and people with guns. It's pretty chicken{censored} to turn this into a political cause immediately. Not even one page in and it turns into a {censored}ing debate. Bull{censored}.. I'm not an american, and I wasn't brought up in the US, and I get it.. What I don't get however is.. How come gun loving people, doesn't want to find that middleground, where you can still own a firearm, any firearm, but still making sure, to the best of their abilities, that random shootings like this doesn't happen..? Left wing says gun control. Right wing says constitutional right. Why doesn't both wings say, let's work together on finding a solution. Yeah, if you really want a gun, you can go out and get a gun somewhere, anywhere in the world, it's never gonna stop, and no legislation is ever gonna put an end to it.. Education might. Yes, I'm a left wing scandinavian, but I also love guns, and do believe, that you americans should get to keep your constitutional right to firearms, but in a modern, mature way, not in the "I have my musket, to fend off the natives", that time is long gone.. I wholeheartedly support people, that want to shoot guns, and go to a range, and do so.. I'll even support you, if you want to keep them in your house, if you know how handle them, as long as you store them in a safe manner.. Yes I love guns, but I'm also deathly afraid of them, because guns don't kill people, but people with guns, have an easier time killing people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gambit Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 the sad thing for me is that for all the discussions across all the countries in the world going on about situations like this - what's the percentage of people who actually write to their MP/Governer/Political representative to lobby them into taking action.i'm clearly going to be anti-gun, being British and liberal as they come, but if you aren't willing to make the effort to instigate change in your own democracy all the internet arguing in the world will make no {censored}ing difference.and that's all i have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 I guess the main thing for me is the ridiculous, reactionary polarization. There is a moderate middle ground that can he reached. I'm not staunchly pro-gun (guns for everyone! It's our god given right!) or anti-gun (no guns ever!). That's ridiculous. It's is very true that bad guys will get guns no matter what the laws are. They always will. It makes sense for law abiding citizens to be able to defend themselves if they so choose.You cannot blame a tool for the actions of a person. I'd say that 99% of gun owners in the USA never fire their weapon at a person. (that's a laymans estimate).We obviously need better mental health care in the US. The restrictions on the mentally ill to get a gun is not strong enough....simply asking someone if they've been deemed mentally defective isn't enough. The logistics would be a nightmare, but I'd be all for a mental health evaluation for a gun purchase + reoccurring checks every couple years or so. As I mentioned before, all these horrific attacks take place in "gun free" zones....meaning no law abiding citizen would have the means to defend themselves. While teachers and principals aren't guards, if someone in that school had been armed with some training, this whole thing could have been quickly squashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boytbpc Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 A mad man walked into a school in China yesterday and attacked. A mad man walked into a school in the U.S. yesterday and attacked. No fatalities in one, 28 in the other. Can you guess which man had a knife and which one had a gun? Don't bull{censored} me and tell me guns aren't a huge part of the problem. We still may have crazy people, but if we limit their ability to harm others, we have done well. Don't tell me that now isn't the time to talk about gun control. What we have done in the past obviously hasn't worked, we have waited and nothing happened, we have yelled from the tops of buildings and nothing happened. We now need to push the issue like never before.Finally, Phil's "don't make this political" comment is a joke. Secular society and liberals are being attacked, but not guns, oh no, that would be a shame.America has become a {censored}hole with people that have little critical thinking skills. Keep vomiting up the pundits talking points without actually thinking about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitardustin Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by V I don't think that's what people are saying at all. They're saying the guns made it worse because they're easy to use, easy to come by, and efficiently kill lots of people compared to most other weapons besides, perhaps, a bomb, but bombs have to be made because we don't allow the public to have them. Actually, I think a few guys in this thread, namely the non-US guys seem to think exactly that. When I hear a story like this I don't immediately think OMG BLAME THE INANIMATE OBJECT HE USED. Why not question what was wrong with him? How did he get into the school? Why did he have issues with this teacher? Does he have a criminal record? Mental health problems? There's a million reasonable questions to ask after this. Also, bomb materials are incredibly easy to come by. Uneducated terrorists in third world countries make them on an hourly basis and they don't even have access to Wal-mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitardustin Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 You anti-gun guys should all band together and be this guys lawyer. You'll make a great case with this {censored}, saying the inanimate object did all the wrongdoing. It wasn't his fault at all right? The gun jumped up into his hand, loaded itself, pointed itself at children. Crazy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aristotle Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 How many of you Americans with staunch anti-gun positions live in a city of greater than 250K people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 No one here is changing their stance on anything, so...Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boytbpc Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by guitardustin You anti-gun guys should all band together and be this guys lawyer. You'll make a great case with this {censored}, saying the inanimate object did all the wrongdoing. It wasn't his fault at all right? The gun jumped up into his hand, loaded itself, pointed itself at children. Crazy stuff. I don't think anyone is saying that, I am saying that the tool he had access to allowed him to murder more people than if he didn't have access to it. Your simplistic, fallacy driven babel might help you sleep at night, but publicly supporting a weapon of mass murder after a tragedy shows a level of callousness that boggles my mind. Originally Posted by Aristotle How many of you Americans with staunch anti-gun positions live in a city of greater than 250K people? I grew up in ranching town of 2000 in Kansas (left at 18), have lived in Denver, Co for many years, and have lived in Asia (pop 275k), Turkey (pop 240k), and Canada (883k). What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aristotle Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 My point is regional differences play a huge role in how people approach the gun issue and there is mischaracterizations about each from both sides. Originally Posted by Trick Fall I live on LI and thre's about fourteen million people within thirty miles of me why? As liberal as I am I wouldn't ban guns, but if driving and owning a car requires a license, registration and insurance I see no reason why owning a gun shouldn't. I'd also tax bullets at 500% and put the money towards mental health initiatives. The typical Long Islander experience with guns is a lot different than the typical, rural midwestern experience. Licensing sounds good in theory, but I doubt it'd really make that big of a difference, especially for the militia-minded types who wouldn't want the government to have perfect records of what they'd be up against if they broke down that door, and so won't report them anyway. And bullets are already absurdly expensive and so many people already just make their own. It's a complicated issue that is always discussed, less as a debate about it in-and-of itself, and more as words that are said in place of the actual words were looking for to express the grieve and anger about things like the killing of 20 children, which words fail to explain entirely. There is no explaining what happened to those kids. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking this tragedy is an actual argument that will resolve this gun debate we've had since 1837 when Georgia tried to ban handguns (unsuccessfully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by Aristotle How many of you Americans with staunch anti-gun positions live in a city of greater than 250K people? I live on LI and thre's about fourteen million people within thirty miles of me why? As liberal as I am I wouldn't ban guns, but if driving and owning a car requires a license, registration and insurance I see no reason why owning a gun shouldn't. I'd also tax bullets at 500% and put the money towards mental health initiatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by boytbpc I don't think anyone is saying that, I am saying that the tool he had access to allowed him to murder more people than if he didn't have access to it. Your simplistic, fallacy driven babel might help you sleep at night, but publicly supporting a weapon of mass murder after a tragedy shows a level of callousness that boggles my mind. I grew up in ranching town of 2000 in Kansas (left at 18), have lived in Denver, Co for many years, and have lived in Asia (pop 275k), Turkey (pop 240k), and Canada (883k). What is your point? wait what? Saying you support gun ownership after a murder means you're callous? So saying you'd still fly after 9/11 is equally as callous? Or professing to still believe in Islam after 9/11 is callous? Just because a horrific incident happens, doesn't mean civil people have to distance themselves from something used in that incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by mhuxtable Or professing to still believe in Islam after 9/11 is callous? Just because a horrific incident happens, doesn't mean civil people have to distance themselves from something used in that incident. analogy level: doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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