Members juri Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Horrible News.... really sad... There must be something we can do to prevent these that transcends all political spectrum's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caeman Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by LSDis4me The primary purpose for alcohol, cars (and chainsaws for that matter) is not to kill people. Guns' primary purpose is to kill, or scare people that they'll be killed. And to allow a population the chance to defend themselves against tyranny. Check out the stats in the countries that have outlawed guns. It doesn't seem to have to stopped the criminals from obtaining and using guns. Funny that... And you hyprocrisy shows. You just happen to support the use of alcohol and will acknowledge the destruction it causes to society. I will agree to ban guns if you agree to ban alcohol in all its forms. Regardless of the weapon used, this inhuman excuse for a lump of flesh committed an act of violence against innocent children. Don't be one of those extremist that "never let a tragedy go to waste" to push your agenda against constitutional freedoms when it is convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 also, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Look, if you're complaining about the news media and such you're also using this as an opportunity to advance a political agenda. It's a different agenda but it's still opportunistic.I'd prefer not to have a partisan debate here, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paganifuzz Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Explain to this old foreigner here the positive side of gun rights once again, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by caeman And to allow a population the chance to defend themselves against tyranny. Check out the stats in the countries that have outlawed guns. It doesn't seem to have to stopped the criminals from obtaining and using guns. Funny that... And you hyprocrisy shows. You just happen to support the use of alcohol and will acknowledge the destruction it causes to society. I will agree to ban guns if you agree to ban alcohol in all its forms. This is a load of Penn & Teller straight up horse {censored} that I'll just let go right now but, Regardless of the weapon used, this inhuman excuse for a lump of flesh committed an act of violence against innocent children. Don't be one of those extremist that "never let a tragedy go to waste" to push your agenda against constitutional freedoms when it is convenient. How do you not see that you yourself are guilty of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hotmess Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by caeman And to allow a population the chance to defend themselves against tyranny. Check out the stats in the countries that have outlawed guns. It doesn't seem to have to stopped the criminals from obtaining and using guns. Funny that... And you hyprocrisy shows. You just happen to support the use of alcohol and will acknowledge the destruction it causes to society. I will agree to ban guns if you agree to ban alcohol in all its forms. Regardless of the weapon used, this inhuman excuse for a lump of flesh committed an act of violence against innocent children. Don't be one of those extremist that "never let a tragedy go to waste" to push your agenda against constitutional freedoms when it is convenient. 1. There's a difference between a criminal having illegal guns (which they do here, now) and a mass murderer buying a gun legally (which, I believe, has always been the case, please, correct me if I'm wrong and site a mass shooting using an unregistered firearm). Will gun control stop hardened criminals? No. Will it prevent mass murder? Yes. 2. Alcohol has been banned before. Ever heard of the 1920's? Again, there is an inconsistency in your comparison of standards. 3. Your constitutional freedom is to own weapons to form a "well regulated militia." Learn your rights before you try to say that I'm attempting to take them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlabbee Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by caeman And when a person that is drunk drives a car and kills someone, do you call for the end of alcohol and cars? Don't be a hypocrite and keep your politics in the other subforum, please. That is, in fact, exactly what happened in the '80's. There were enough horrific fatalities due to drunk drivers that people began to act politically to address the problem - have you ever heard of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers)? As a result of that HUGE political push, our DUI laws are extremely strict and the drinking age went from 18 to 21. The easy availability of guns in this country are the direct result of politics - starting with the 2nd Amendment (a political response to English oppression) to the gutting of our gun laws by legislatures and the Supreme Court. It is an entirely political issue, so a political response to these kinds of tragedies is entirely appropriate. As the father of two boys, one of which is in elementary school at this moment, and living in a city that just had a shooting at a mall, I'm am literally shaking with horror at this news - I'm sick to my stomach. I'm sick to death of hearing these stories and I'm sick to death of anyone that thinks that a reasonable set of restrictions on guns and body armor (who the {censored} needs body armor to go hunting?) is some kind of immoral infringement on our rights. Enough is enough - we need to start putting meaningful restrictions on guns again. No one's FIVE YEAR OLD CHILD should have to die for us to come to our frigging senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 We have guns in Canada, and ownership is easy.If someone wants to hurt a lot of people, they'll find away. Plenty of murders and mass killings happened before there were guns.Someone who is so compelled can get guns in a land where they are banned.The issues that motivate someone to kill innocent victims are psychological and cultural. What the US needs are not new gun laws, but new ethics and institutions.* * *I'm going to be a father in two weeks, and this story is really troubling to me, in a way it wouldn't have been a year ago. And, surely, it will be more troubling once I'm actually a father of a living, helpless baby. But guns are not really the problem. They are used by certain people, for certain purposes, for certain reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlabbee Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Can you get an AR-15 in Canada? Not snark - actual question - I'm curious if the availability of this kind of heavy duty weaponry makes a difference. Both in the capabilities of the weapon and as a reflection of the militarization of our society.http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamasc...ooting_22.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptosonic Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by V The advice was from mental health professionals, not anchors or something. I mean, do you really expect the news not to cover this? It's real news instead of the pseudoevents they generally cover. It isn't the reporting that bothers me, it is the spectacle. The endless stream of color commentators is pretty callous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Interesting. That FB may have been telling the truth. It seems they aren't sure if the killer was Ryan Lanza or his brother Adam who may have taken his ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blakemore Effects Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Can we start another thread for all of this pro/anti gun bull{censored}? This same thing happened with the Colorado shooting. I'd pop into the thread every once in awhile to see if there were any updates as to what actually happened, and it was just posts bickering about gun rights. That's fine if you guys want to talk about that stuff, but I'd rather save this thread to actually talk about the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by cryptosonic It isn't the reporting that bothers me, it is the spectacle. The endless stream of color commentators is pretty callous. In our corporatist culture, the news arm of the big media companies were changed a couple decades ago. The change was from having them be about reporting the news, to being another profit driven type of programming. The news had not been required to make money, now it is. And as the saying goes, "If it bleeds, it leads." The spectacle is about increasing profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members macadood Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 agreed. gun control is not the real issue here. moreso who should have access to guns and have better mental sanity checks if that is even possible. but even then it is not hard to obtain a gun illegally, which defeats the whole point of gun control. in canada i'd say it is pretty good, you need a license, you can only really buy shotguns and rifles (limited to 5 rounds a clip) which are not ideal for these kinds of massacres being big, heavy, slow reload time, not many bullets, plus need an additional license to buy handguns. certainly we have it much better here in terms of gun violence. but again, anyone can still go out and find an ak-47 with an extended clip if they tried and had a bit of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by mlabbee Can you get an AR-15 in Canada? Not snark - actual question - I'm curious if the availability of this kind of heavy duty weaponry makes a difference. Both in the capabilities of the weapon and as a reflection of the militarization of our society. http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamasc...ooting_22.html Yep; I actually plan to get one some day. You can even own an AK47 (no banana clip though). The main difference, really, is the extent to which fear, despair, and xenophobia factor in to the national identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matt Gnarly Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 What a horrible tragedy, really unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by ben_allison But guns are not really the problem. They are used by certain people, for certain purposes, for certain reasons. I think that you'll have to concede that guns certainly make wholesale slaughter much more accessible for those certain people, purposes, and reasons, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlabbee Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by ben_allison Yep; I actually plan to get one some day. You can even own an AK47 (no banana clip though). So your point about our ethics and institutions may hit the nail on the head (though banana clips do weigh pretty heavily in these incidents). Here's an interesting opinion from a conservative apostate in the US: http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...n-control.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papercutnoise Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by caeman And when a person that is drunk drives a car and kills someone, do you call for the end of alcohol and cars? Don't be a hypocrite and keep your politics in the other subforum, please. And the award for the most idiotic defense of gun rights goes to........ Originally Posted by paganifuzz Explain to this old foreigner here the positive side of gun rights once again, please? This x 1000 Seriously, I have yet to hear even ONE single decent argument in favour of gun rights. It's in our constitution - Outdated Bollox People will get guns anyway - Bollox Guns don't kill people, people do - Bollox If we ban guns then we should ban alcohol - Bollox Look, most of the people who have committed these sort of horrible shootings were not underground criminals and easily obtained their weapons through various means. Comparing a gun to alcohol is like comparing a hand grenade to a joint. As long as guns are legal in America, these incidents will still happen. If you people want to have the right to own guns to defend yourselves, then be prepared for plenty more horror and heartache down the road. These incidents are an absolute tragedy and my heart goes out to everyone involved. It's up to you as a nation to cop on and put an end to it buy pressuring your politicians to rid your nation of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Picklebottom Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by paganifuzz Explain to this old foreigner here the positive side of gun rights once again, please? 1) not being a british colony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members macadood Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by ben_allison Yep; I actually plan to get one some day. You can even own an AK47 (no banana clip though). The main difference, really, is the extent to which fear, despair, and xenophobia factor in to the national identity. limited to 5 round clips though as i understand, and needs a restricted license "The Government of Canada classifies the AR-15 (and its variants) as a restricted firearm. For anyone wanting to lawfully own an AR-15, they must obtain a Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) valid for restricted firearms, (commonly known RPAL,) and then each acquisition of a restricted class firearm is subject to approval by the Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) of the would-be buyer's province of residence.[19][20] With the introduction of strict gun control measures by former Prime Minister Jean Chr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members macadood Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Dr.Picklebottom 1) not being a british colony indeed. while an archaic reason, we are far past the point where you could just ban guns altogether, both societally and pragmatically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Let It Burn... Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Terrible news. This doesn't only happen in the US (although it appears to happen more frequently over there). We've had some similar things happen here in the EU (remember Breivik, Van Themsche, Degelder etc)Also, in b4 the lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papercutnoise Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by macadood limited to 5 round clips though as i understand, and needs a restricted license Ah sure you could do barely any damage with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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