What will Roland's new synth be? Speculate here..

[Bernard]

[Syntex]

Maybe because Kronos isn't out yet?

I should have written more precisely "pre-order" instead of "buy", however I wasn't interested in wasting time writing a long post. If forum visits take 30 minutes per week, that's already way too much.

[ChristianRock]

Well, apparently there's a few of us who don't do pre-order.

[seamonkey]

I should have written more precisely "pre-order" instead of "buy", however I wasn't interested in wasting time writing a long post. If forum visits take 30 minutes per week, that's already way too much.

Actually there's only 3 letters difference between the word bought and preorder, and yes I realize hyphen isn't a letter.

So the length isn't necessarily pushed into the long post parameters.

It's great you have such enthusiasm regarding the Jupiter80, and I hope it's everything you wish for and more.

 

This whole Roland versus Korg thing has gotten a wee bit too serious to me.

We all are different, and often like different things, so there really is no right or wrong.

One can argue specs all day long, and when making a large ticket purchase it's important to factor these things into your decision.

But in the end, for most of us, especially those of us who are hobbyist's, it's more about what you like.

 

peace to all my kss brothers.....and sisters.

[berbie]

We pore over these keyboards, and study and compare them, incessantly putting forth our determinations about quality, features and sounds, which is interesting to read and fun. But how important is it in making a choice? We compare new boards to the ones that we own, and often, in a rush of GAS, we sell our own and buy the new one. Usually, we find that except for eye candy features, we might as well be playing the one we had before. Kronos, Jupiter 80, Nord Stage, Motif XF, top Kurzweil, which is better? We pontificate. I say; you could buy either one and you would not go wrong. I say that there is so little difference between boards of the same class that it really doesn't matter. The most importamt thing one can do when checking out boards in the same class is play them yourself. Buy the one that sounds best and is most ergonomically correct for you. The biggest change that you will make is not going to another board but going to another class of boards.(moneywise, or arranger/workstation wise, digital piano wise, etc.). Other than that, I don't think it really matters. For hobbyists, this all is just a matter, though of having fun.

[zoink]

I think people's disappointment with Roland stems from a longstanding admiration. The disenchantment is based on high expectations.

 

For decades -- on and off -- Roland has been probably the most innovative synth and drum machine company overall. So many major trends were started by Roland. They were the risk takers: TR-808, TR-909, Jupiter 8/6/4, JX-10, D-50, JD-800/990, the S-50/550 (you could hook up a computer monitor to the thing!), the MC series (they basically invented the groove box), V-Synth, etc.

 

If Red Sound announced that they were putting out another Dark Star, you wouldn't see a 32 page thread materialize from people's outrage at the prospect. We just don't expect much from Red Sound at this point. Or, setting aside small start-ups that often fail anyway, consider Yamaha. Of the Big Three, they've become the 'play it safe' company. They stopped making synths, they no longer make groove boxes or drum machines, and even the latest incarnation of the Motif doesn't support PLG plug-in boards. Yet there is no outrage over what Yamaha is doing, because that's what Yamaha is at this point.

 

But Roland's problem is that historically they've set the bar very high. Yes, they are in a sort of slump, probably because of the dicey economy and a bit of an identity crisis in the company itself (not knowing whether to try and please teenagers and dilettantes, or synth heads and working musicians, or how to do both).

 

Whatever the reasons may be, recently they've been playing it safe. Their last two VAs, for example, were lower end and feature-poor. The SH-201 and Sh-01 synths are less an innovation than a reaction to Korg and Novation. Roland doesn't do as well when they try to emulate the commercial successes of others.

 

If they want to put out an entry level VA, that's fine, but put it BENEATH something better. Korg has been very successful at this. They release a flagship product, and then spin off the technology in less expensive products. If Roland had put out a full featured VA at the Radias's price point, then a scaled down VA like the GAIA would make more sense.

[realtrance]

Syntex:

 

Novamusik's got a pre-order option for JP-80, and a great price on it, check 'em out. They're a good company to buy from.

 

OTOH that goes into a whole 'nother discussion, should you mail-order a big, expensive keyboard. I wouldn't. I've always had more luck getting those in-store, and not at some mass-market place like Guitar Center, but a local shop with a good reputation and good people, even if you have to drive a few states across the country to get to one.

 

Nevertheless, I'd trust Novamusik if I were ordering a keyboard online for ship.

 

I have a feeling the Jupiter-80 is going to be much-sought-after, and difficult to find at launch.

[realtrance]

 

I think people's disappointment with Roland stems from a longstanding admiration. The disenchantment is based on high expectations. For decades -- on and off -- Roland has been probably the most innovative synth and drum machine company overall. So many major trends were started by Roland. They were the risk takers: TR-808, TR-909, Jupiter 8/6/4, JX-10, D-50, JD-800/990, the S-50/550 (you could hook up a computer monitor to the thing!), the MC series (they basically invented the groove box), V-Synth, etc. If Red Sound announced that they were putting out another Dark Star, you wouldn't see a 32 page thread materialize from people's outrage at the prospect. We just don't expect much from Red Sound at this point. Or, setting aside small start-ups that often fail anyway, consider Yamaha. Of the Big Three, they've become the 'play it safe' company. They stopped making synths, they no longer make groove boxes or drum machines, and even the latest incarnation of the Motif doesn't support PLG plug-in boards. Yet there is no outrage over what Yamaha is doing, because that's what Yamaha is at this point. But Roland's problem is that historically they've set the bar very high. Yes, they are in a sort of slump, probably because of the dicey economy and a bit of an identity crisis in the company itself (not knowing whether to try and please teenagers and dilettantes, or synth heads and working musicians, or how to do both). Whatever the reasons may be, recently they've been playing it safe. Their last two VAs, for example, were lower end and feature-poor. The SH-201 and Sh-01 synths are less an innovation than a reaction to Korg and Novation. Roland doesn't do as well when they try to emulate the commercial successes of others. If they want to put out an entry level VA, that's fine, but put it BENEATH something better. Korg has been very successful at this. They release a flagship product, and then spin off the technology in less expensive products. If Roland had put out a full featured VA at the Radias's price point, then a scaled down VA like the GAIA would make more sense.

 

 

Roland only debuts major keyboards like once every five years, that's been consistently true for the past 15. XP-80 was the mothership, after which, cheaper versions. Then JP-8000, after which, SP-808, SH-32, SH-201, Gaia. Then Fantom. Then V-Synth.

 

Now Jupiter-80.

 

The only real disappointment I've seen online is that a lot of the mass market is disappointed they don't really have the money to invest in flagship synths.

[McHale]

 

The only real disappointment I've seen online is that a lot of the mass market is disappointed they don't really have the money to invest in flagship synths.

 

 

Yet, I'm betting the Kronos sells like hot cakes. Roland should take note.

[Re-Member]

 

Whatever the reasons may be, recently they've been playing it safe. Their last two VAs, for example, were lower end and feature-poor. The SH-201 and Sh-01 synths are less an innovation than a reaction to Korg and Novation. Roland doesn't do as well when they try to emulate the commercial successes of others. If they want to put out an entry level VA, that's fine, but put it BENEATH something better. Korg has been very successful at this. They release a flagship product, and then spin off the technology in less expensive products. If Roland had put out a full featured VA at the Radias's price point, then a scaled down VA like the GAIA would make more sense.

 

 

The SH-201 was based on the VA section of the V-Synth, so it actually was released beneath something better. There was just a three year gap between them. If you look at Roland's entire SH line, all have been smaller, entry level synthesizers compared to their bigger synths, such as the Junos and Jupiters. They were cheaper by comparison since they offered no patch storage, had four octaves or less and were mostly monophonic. While I don't feel that the SH-01 was a good follow up to the SH-201, I think Roland was aiming at competing with the Korg R3.

[Pilotwings]

I think people's disappointment with Roland stems from a longstanding admiration. The disenchantment is based on high expectations.

 

 

+1 I've made similar remarks on "the other forum"

[Thorhead]

I dunno, I think the realistic instruments sound better than on kronos, or any workstation synth for that matter:

 

HPP-vtralcc

 

Nice articulations.

 

Still synth wise... not that great. 3K is a bit much I think. Roland is way overpricing on pretty much everything they make. Which is interesting because they are a big company and yet can not compete with prices against waaay smaller ones.

[Dr.Wu]

The realism on this thing is only rivaled by the best software instruments like VSL, Samplemodeling and WIVI. I really dig how they implemented the pitchbender.

[Dr.Wu]

Synthwise i see it like a 21 century D-50. The VA seems to be capable to provide some nice fat pads and the Sampleplayer takes care of the transient attacks.

[Bernard]

 

Synthwise i see it like a 21 century D-50. The VA seems to be capable to provide some nice fat pads and the Sampleplayer takes care of the transient attacks.

 

 

I iz very happy

[seamonkey]

 

Yet, I'm betting the Kronos sells like hot cakes. Roland should take note.

 

yes, but the number of synths initially sold doesn't necessarily translate into how great that synth is.

Usually if you look at how many of those synths are listed on ebay following their release, to me is a better representation. The DSI Prophet 08 is a perfect example.

Of course sometimes that is just because people get caught up in the hype, and buy it and find out it's not what they were looking for.

To be clear, I am not suggesting the Prophet 08 is a bad synth, nor am I saying the Kronos or Jupiter 80 are either.

 

When the Kronos was first revealed, I fell madly in love, but as time passed and I had a bit more time to reflect on my thoughts, I realized for myself, especially financially, dumping all my eggs in one basket didn't make much sense.

For example, I was a bit surprised Korg went back to the vault and included the legacy stuff. For a couple hundred dollars you can have these on your computer.(I just bought the MS20 for $50). I've had the legacy collection on my computer for years. Of course I don't think you can combine them, and use their signal path the way you can on the Kronos, but I'm still scratching my head on why they included older technology on a game changing synth.

 

As time goes on, we will find out more things about the Jupiter 80. It seems to me, from everything I've read and seen, they rushed this to get it to Messe, perhaps a bit too soon. The presentations and demos on video seemed rushed, and lacking in substantial information and musical demos. Those that have been released seemed hurried to put together...and why...for a synth which is named Jupiter, did most of the video presentations spend 90% of their time talking about the new natural acoustic sounds instead of the synth side.

The confusion for me..Jupiter 8=fat synth sounds vs Jupiter 80=natural acoustic articulation.

It may very well be once things have settled down, we may find out the Jupiter 80 is FAT. It's hard to tell at this stage in it's release, and later some of you who aren't impressed with it may look at it differently.

 

Enough of my Sunday ramblings.....

[evildragon]

For a couple hundred dollars you can have these on your computer.(I just bought the MS20 for $50)

 

Not quite. The code is completely different. The Legacy Collection VST instruments do NOT sound the same as their EXi "counterparts". In fact, EXi versions sound a lot better.

 

 

Game changing things on Kronos, which both Roland and Yamaha should take note: GIGABYTES of samples available, SSD inside, direct from disk streaming, completely seamless patch switching WITHOUT sacrificing half of FX or multimode parts (hello, Fantom? ). Anything that comes out after Kronos and doesn't challenge that is not a worthy contender. And yes, I'm including Jupiter-80 here as well. J-80 is not a workstation, so it cannot be directly compared to Kronos, which does SO MUCH MORE than J-80.

[ChipCurtis]

 

The only real disappointment I've seen online is that a lot of the mass market is disappointed they don't really have the money to invest in flagship synths.

 

 

I'm not surprised.

 

Like most musicians on a limited budget, I would far prefer to own a used flagship synth from a previous era than a (similarly-priced) new scaled-down spinoff synth from the current era.

 

You get so much more bang for your buck, much better build quality, and much more features on an older flagship than you do with a newer scaledown model.

 

Who cares what the method of sound creation is (analog, sample-based, VA, modeling....) as long as it sounds good and is easily editable.

 

As a musician, what I'm looking for is durability, features, and good musical sounds (and the ability to create them easily). My musical needs as a keyboardist do not often require that I MUST own something current. That is a market/consumer issue, not a musician's issue.

[McHale]

 

yes, but the number of synths initially sold doesn't necessarily translate into how great that synth is.

 

 

True, but winning best of show at NAMM or MASSE may be a good indicator though...

 

 

For example, I was a bit surprised Korg went back to the vault and included the legacy stuff. For a couple hundred dollars you can have these on your computer.(I just bought the MS20 for $50). I've had the legacy collection on my computer for years. Of course I don't think you can combine them, and use their signal path the way you can on the Kronos, but I'm still scratching my head on why they included older technology on a game changing synth.

 

 

Personally, I was surprised they didn't include more of them. The Kronos wouldn't have been nearly as appealing to me had those been left off (especially since they were on the OASYS). I wouldn't use a computer based soft synth in a live situation if my life depended on it. If they got the MS-20 and the PolySix right, who wouldn't want a PolySix or MS20 in their synth arsenal? The KRONOS version has more features than the soft synth versions. If Korg were to re-release a real analog PolySix with updated specs, many people would want it. If they can do it as a VA and it sounds 99% authentic, who cares if it's a softsynth?

 

I originally thought that the KRONOS was going to be ALL of their legacy softsynths PLUS more unreleased legacy stuff in one synth. I will own the KRONOS (either in 88 or 61 key form) and if they released a hardware synth with all of their soft synths from the legacy collections in one package, I'd buy that too. Even though I already own them in software form on my PC, I'd prefer them on a dedicated synth.

 

 

The confusion for me..Jupiter 8=fat synth sounds vs Jupiter 80=natural acoustic articulation.

 

 

I see your point *BUT* coming from the days where I couldn't wait to dump my PolySix, maybe the Jupiter 80 completes the original vision of the Jupiter 8. Analog is trendy now but back then many of us were SO sick of everything sounding like a saw or sin wave. I wanted a piano that sounded like a piano and a trumpet that sounded like a trumpet and analog just couldn't do what people wanted - sound like real instruments. This does that *AND* still gives analog sounding sounds. I'm not saying that was their theory but if so, it would make complete sense to me. If they nailed the sound of a Jupiter 8 and added authentic real instruments, it does exactly what I think it should have been.

[realtrance]

Chip, totally agreed. As always, both Kronos and Jupiter-80 will primarily appeal to a narrow professional and commercial market where the cost of buying these instruments is relatively trivial, and worth even the simple marketing value of being seen onstage and in videos playing one.

 

For the most part there really is nothing totally new under the sun with synthesis at this point. These instruments both both represent subtle but substantial incremental improvements in convenience above all.

 

Plus now Roland can finally say to K.L.H. - "we make trumpets, too!"

[Pilotwings]

The confusion for me..Jupiter 8=fat synth sounds vs Jupiter 80=natural acoustic articulation.

 

 

I'm wondering how close the JP-80 piano sound will be to their V-Piano? 'Cause when I played the V-Piano, I really liked it!

[evildragon]

Based on what I've heard on all those demos, the piano sound is nothing special and is worse than what Kronos offers. V-Piano pales in comparison to latest Pianoteq 3 models. And some new ones being developed, especially.

[mate_stubb]

And some new ones being developed, especially.

 

Spill it! In a PM if discretion is necessary.

[evildragon]

All in due time, all in due time.

[DJ RAZZ]

It should be the V-Piano but I fear it is not. It sounds very similar to the VR-700 piano. Not nearly what the Kronos can do which sounds like an Oasys piano but warmer.