Why shouldn't I make a wet/dry rig?

[Zachman]

IMO, Good tone isn't limited to genres and neither is creativity.

 

W/D, Stereo, & W/D/W rigs definitely add a dimensionality to your sound that you can't get unless you are using a setup like them. That being said,

 

The Pros and Cons of a Mega Rig:

 

Pros

 

Unparalleled Tone

 

Unparalleled Control

 

No Compromises in Signal Quality

 

Fast setup time

 

Maximum Flexibility

 

Cons

 

Potentially Expensive

 

Potentially Lots of gear to move

 

Potentially Heavy

[guitarman967]

pointless for what you're looking for. just make sure your amp has an effects loop and you're good to go. I doubt you could find one post-rock band that would bother to play wet/dry live

 

Every Post I see by you is either arrogant or negative.. Get out of the house little maybe or Get a life

[Digital Jams]

 

IMO, Good tone isn't limited to genres and neither is creativity. W/D, Stereo, & W/D/W rigs definitely add a dimensionality to your sound that you can't get unless you are using a setup like them. That being said, The Pros and Cons of a Mega Rig: Pros Unparalleled Tone Unparalleled Control No Compromises in Signal Quality Fast setup time Maximum Flexibility Cons Potentially Expensive Potentially Lots of gear to move Potentially Heavy

 

 

 

There it is plain and simple.

 

Yeah there is the $$$$$ factor but nothing compares and you will laugh at yourself for thinking you were heavy before with just one amp.

[Zachman]

 

The main reason not to do it is that you will hardly ever be able to use it.

 

 

I hate presumptuous crap like your statement. I've been using setups like that since the 80's, and still do, at home, live and in the studio.

[Zachman]

 

There it is plain and simple. Yeah there is the $$$$$ factor but nothing compares and you will laugh at yourself for thinking you were heavy before with just one amp.

 

 

FOR GOD's SAKE, DON'T PUT the power amp or amps in the same rack as your effects... WAY TOO Damn HEAVY, and yes- the sound simply beats the crap out of a mono rig

[tats_dragon]

The tones you can get out of a WD or WDW rigs are incredible but the down side is mic'ing the multiple cabs. Unless the FOH person is competent, the carefully tweaked wet/dry ratio can be ruined by the wrong input gain or fader settings. If the PA isn't stereo WDW is unfortunately a total waste.

 

 

Jun

[Zachman]

 

The tones you can get out of a WD or WDW rigs are incredible but the down side is mic'ing the multiple cabs. Unless the FOH person is competent, the carefully tweaked wet/dry ratio can be ruined by the wrong input gain or fader settings. If the PA isn't stereo WDW is unfortunately a total waste. Jun

 

 

You know, it's really not that big of an issue for me because I set my own balance and have my own boost level set with my presets, so all I need the sound guy to do, is set the levels equally and leave the faders alone. They don't need to boost me in the house for solos, my rig already does that, via preprogrammed stuff that I've done ahead of time. It really does make everyones jobs much easier.

 

And as I've mentioned before in other threads, the fact that the FOH is probably NOT stereo, doesn't really make a difference either, because EVEN though the audience doesn't get the stereo spread through the mains, the tone is still better and they DO get that. Also, I get the benefit of the better stereo tones on stage and as a result of me being happier with my tone, I tend to be more motivated and tend to perform better.

[Kowalski]

Every Post I see by you is either arrogant or negative.. Get out of the house little maybe or Get a life

 

[tlbonehead]

IMO, Good tone isn't limited to genres and neither is creativity. W/D, Stereo, & W/D/W rigs definitely add a dimensionality to your sound that you can't get unless you are using a setup like them. That being said, The Pros and Cons of a Mega Rig: Pros Unparalleled Tone Unparalleled Control No Compromises in Signal Quality Fast setup time Maximum Flexibility Cons Potentially Expensive Potentially Lots of gear to move Potentially Heavy

I agree. I think some of these posts can be translated into, "don't do it, because I am too lazy to do it and I don't want other people getting ahead of me".

[Tone Deaf]

 

IMO, Good tone isn't limited to genres and neither is creativity. W/D, Stereo, & W/D/W rigs definitely add a dimensionality to your sound that you can't get unless you are using a setup like them. That being said, The Pros and Cons of a Mega Rig: Pros Unparalleled Tone Unparalleled Control No Compromises in Signal Quality Fast setup time Maximum Flexibility Cons Potentially Expensive Potentially Lots of gear to move Potentially Heavy

 

 

My two cents...

 

As far as running in stereo in a live situation, I would say that the above listed cons far outweigh the pros. Let's face it, maybe at best, 1% of the crowd would even be able to tell that the house system is running in stereo versus mono. The only instruments that could really benefit from running full stereo would be guitars and keys. It just seems like a lot of trouble to go to just to essentially have the ability to pan your delays/choruses back and forth.

 

However, I can see much more of a benefit of a wet/dry setup through a mono house system. Running one rig with effects, blended with another amp with no effects can have a really nice layering effect, which I would think would be much more noticeable to anyone listening.

[tlbonehead]

My two cents... As far as running in stereo in a live situation, I would say that the above listed cons far outweigh the pros. Let's face it, maybe at best, 1% of the crowd would even be able to tell that the house system is running in stereo versus mono. The only instruments that could really benefit from running full stereo would be guitars and keys. It just seems like a lot of trouble to go to just to essentially have the ability to pan your delays/choruses back and forth. However, I can see much more of a benefit of a wet/dry setup through a mono house system. Running one rig with effects, blended with another amp with no effects can have a really nice layering effect, which I would think would be much more noticeable to anyone listening.

Even beyond the efffects, you can do a lot of layering and filling just by having two vastly different tones going on each side. Asparkly clean along with a roots-rock hairly, jangly soft overdrive. An over-the-top high gain with a mid-gain punchy tone to bring some definition and cut to your sound, stuff like that.

[Tone Deaf]

 

Even beyond the efffects, you can do a lot of layering and filling just by having two vastly different tones going on each side. Asparkly clean along with a roots-rock hairly, jangly soft overdrive. An over-the-top high gain with a mid-gain punchy tone to bring some definition and cut to your sound, stuff like that.

 

 

But the same layering can be accomplished with a wet/dry mono setup. You can run two amps with two vastly different dones and run them through a mono house system. I just think that the "left/right" benefits of a true stereo setup aren't all that noticeable at a high volume venue, and can only be fully appreciated if you're standing in the sweet spot. Depending on where you're standing, you could possibly miss one whole side of the mix.

 

A wet/dry mono setup gives you the same layering options without the inherent different mixes in different locations that you have with a true stereo house mix.

[darkestdays]

Just plug this into the FX loop...

 

[DeathMonkey]

I've run a variety of stereo and W/D rigs, from my old Parker acoustic/electric setup to a dry Deliverance/wet 100/CL rig with my current band. Our bassist runs a wet/dry stereo setup and it sounds great.

 

Currently I run mono, tho. Honestly, it was just too cumbersome. We tend to play shows with either a ton of backlined unsigned acts, or with National acts with, you guessed it, huge backlines. Having two heads and two cabs just ate up too much real estate and setup time.

 

If you can condense to a rack rig, and use a pair of 2x12s, tho, or if you tend to play shows where you have more space and time, it's a lot of fun to play stereo or W/D. Especially with a wet/dry setup, you can get great sounds from your effects without sacrificing clarity. The stereo W/D/W setup in particular can be truly awesome with ping pong delays, stereo flanging, timed tremolo or Univibe stuff...

 

So it's up to you and your situation. For me, my current rig works well, but if I ever got to the level where someone else was carrying my crap, I'd go big in a hurry =)

[tlbonehead]

But the same layering can be accomplished with a wet/dry mono setup. You can run two amps with two vastly different dones and run them through a mono house system. I just think that the "left/right" benefits of a true stereo setup aren't all that noticeable at a high volume venue, and can only be fully appreciated if you're standing in the sweet spot. Depending on where you're standing, you could possibly miss one whole side of the mix. A wet/dry mono setup gives you the same layering options without the inherent different mixes in different locations that you have with a true stereo house mix.

Yes, I know. I was just addressing the idea of using two separate amps in whatever method.

[Zachman]

My two cents... As far as running in stereo in a live situation, I would say that the above listed cons far outweigh the pros. Let's face it, maybe at best, 1% of the crowd would even be able to tell that the house system is running in stereo versus mono. The only instruments that could really benefit from running full stereo would be guitars and keys. It just seems like a lot of trouble to go to just to essentially have the ability to pan your delays/choruses back and forth. However, I can see much more of a benefit of a wet/dry setup through a mono house system. Running one rig with effects, blended with another amp with no effects can have a really nice layering effect, which I would think would be much more noticeable to anyone listening.

 

No prob... Different people have different levels of needs/requirements/preferences and that is ok, too. As far as the tone being more noticeable to others listening goes, W/D is the same as a W/D/W setup, except that the W/D/W setup allows for more sonic stuff to be perceived in mono than a W/D setup and has the added benefit for sounding better for the player-which in my case, is a motivator and as a result I find myself able to perform better for the crowd, when I am happiest with my tone.

 

Me personally, as someone who has run mono, stereo, W/D, W/D/W, I can tell you that my preference is getting the best sound- and with that, the W/D/W rig with the right components and switching system in the equation, WINS.

 

As far as "a lot extra trouble" is concerned- one extra speaker cab and speaker cable (which can be done in about 5 seconds doesn't really qualify as "a lot of extra trouble", for me, BUT that is just me.

 

I find that it's usually the guys who've never run a setup like mine that talk, with no point of reference, about how much overkill it is, and how something else (less stellar) is just as good. It's as though they assume their theories are true, without having tested them. Sorry, it's not true. The W/D/W Switching system type of rig is bigger sounding, and the pros that I listed in my previous post WIN hands down, IF a better tone, flexibility, and control are the things one are trying to accomplish.

[Zachman]

I've run a variety of stereo and W/D rigs, from my old Parker acoustic/electric setup to a dry Deliverance/wet 100/CL rig with my current band. Our bassist runs a wet/dry stereo setup and it sounds great. Currently I run mono, tho. Honestly, it was just too cumbersome. We tend to play shows with either a ton of backlined unsigned acts, or with National acts with, you guessed it, huge backlines. Having two heads and two cabs just ate up too much real estate and setup time. If you can condense to a rack rig, and use a pair of 2x12s, tho, or if you tend to play shows where you have more space and time, it's a lot of fun to play stereo or W/D. Especially with a wet/dry setup, you can get great sounds from your effects without sacrificing clarity. The stereo W/D/W setup in particular can be truly awesome with ping pong delays, stereo flanging, timed tremolo or Univibe stuff... So it's up to you and your situation. For me, my current rig works well, but if I ever got to the level where someone else was carrying my crap, I'd go big in a hurry =)

 

Well said...

[Zachman]

 

I agree. I think some of these posts can be translated into, "don't do it, because I am too lazy to do it and I don't want other people getting ahead of me".

 

 

There is definitely a lot of that. I think a lot of it is also the intimidating, "How the hell do you hook all that stuff up" factor, along with the "Holy crap, that is expensive" factor, and the "I can't fit all that stuff in my VW" factor comes into play as well.

 

To the rest of the naysayers: It, running a Mega rig, isn't for everyone for a lot of various reasons, and is not always the most appropriate choice for those who are playing in the local dive bars, w/ limited stage space, or loading gear up stairs etc... and I find that knowing how to run whatever your setup is properly and choosing the most appropriate/best gear for a given scenario, is something that comes with time, experience and the financial means to facilitate one's tastes and lack of willingness to compromise, though the appropriate choices don't always have to be expensive ones, however; I've found that when one isn't willing to compromise, it's usually accompanied with a hefty price tag.

[tats_dragon]

 

You know, it's really not that big of an issue for me because I set my own balance and have my own boost level set with my presets, so all I need the sound guy to do, is set the levels equally and leave the faders alone. They don't need to boost me in the house for solos, my rig already does that, via preprogrammed stuff that I've done ahead of time. It really does make everyones jobs much easier. And as I've mentioned before in other threads, the fact that the FOH is probably NOT stereo, doesn't really make a difference either, because EVEN though the audience doesn't get the stereo spread through the mains, the tone is still better and they DO get that. Also, I get the benefit of the better stereo tones on stage and as a result of me being happier with my tone, I tend to be more motivated and tend to perform better.

 

Having worked as a FOH engineer, what a guitarist perceives as a good solo volume has never worked for me. How do you gauge it? 3dB? 6dB?

Maybe you have a better understanding what that should be, but you really can't set this according to a VU meter. Tweaking the tones alone can boost or reduce an instruments perceived volume.

 

I've used a three cab w/d/w setup for a few gigs. After we went in-ear, I tried a mic'ed w/d/w. I scaled down to a w/d for a few months. Now I'm down to a mono setup. Once mic'ed, thru a PA there is very little difference in the quality of the guitar tones, IF you use quality cables throughout.

 

If you have a road crew and a competent FOH eng. w/d/w is glorious for gigs. Without it, it's not worth the hassle for me.

 

 

 

 

Jun

[Ron Burgandy]

I'll agree with TLBonehead in that I'm just too lazy to do it.

 

I love running my Marshalls in Stereo at home with a W/D setup, but no way in hell would I lug 2 - 4x12's and 2 heads plus effects around. More power to the people that are willing to do so, the resulting wall of sound is amazing.

[Zachman]

 

Having worked as a FOH engineer, what a guitarist perceives as a good solo volume has never worked for me. How do you gauge it? 3dB? 6dB? Maybe you have a better understanding what that should be, but you really can't set this according to a VU meter. Tweaking the tones alone can boost or reduce an instruments perceived volume. I've used a three cab w/d/w setup for a few gigs. After we went in-ear, I tried a mic'ed w/d/w. I scaled down to a w/d for a few months. Now I'm down to a mono setup. Once mic'ed, thru a PA there is very little difference in the quality of the guitar tones, IF you use quality cables throughout. If you have a road crew and a competent FOH eng. w/d/w is glorious for gigs. Without it, it's not worth the hassle for me. Jun

 

 

Having been a gigging musician and FOH engineer for over 20 years, I guess it just comes down to knowing how to set ones stage volume and tone to begin with. In my case I gage how I set stuff using my ears and getting a balanced stage sound from the whole band, not VU meters. Then all the FOH engineer needs to do is: set all my mics equally and leave it alone. My rack is setup right and when I switch channels and/or amps from rhythm or lead, the programming has all been done so that the levels are consistent. ex. ALL rhythm channels are the same volume, measuring by my racks LED's, the signal to the wet rig, same for clean- and solo volumes are bumped a bit, via preprogrammed presets. Small adjustments in Master volumes of amps for the Dry setup are made during sound check, and the wet part of the rig is balanced afterwards.

[Zachman]

I'll agree with TLBonehead in that I'm just too lazy to do it. I love running my Marshalls in Stereo at home with a W/D setup, but no way in hell would I lug 2 - 4x12's and 2 heads plus effects around. More power to the people that are willing to do so, the resulting wall of sound is amazing.

 

Yes, it is... For the record, I don't use the mega rig for every occasion, as some would seem to indicate as the pitfall for having a setup like this, as being too much to move around.

 

Appropriate rigs for each occasion, is my method, though when it comes to tone, versatility, and control, and when compromise is NOT in your vocabulary- a W/D/W multi-amp rig IS the King of the hill of rigs. (assuming it's done right, of course)

[tats_dragon]

 

Having been a gigging musician and FOH engineer for over 20 years, I guess it just comes down to knowing how to set ones stage volume and tone to begin with. In my case I gage how I set stuff using my ears and getting a balanced stage sound from the whole band, not VU meters. Then all the FOH engineer needs to do is: set all my mics equally and leave it alone. My rack is setup right and when I switch channels and/or amps from rhythm or lead, the programming has all been done so that the levels are consistent. ex. ALL rhythm channels are the same volume, measuring by my racks LED's, the signal to the wet rig, same for clean- and solo volumes are bumped a bit, via preprogrammed presets. Small adjustments in Master volumes of amps for the Dry setup are made during sound check, and the wet part of the rig is balanced afterwards.

 

 

My point is that you can't use rack LEDs to level out all your rhythm sounds. One sound with a slight bump at 2k is going to sound louder even though your LEDs tell you other wise.

I wish I could clone myself to run sound when I'm performing.

 

 

Jun

[Zachman]

 

My point is that you can't use rack LEDs to level out all your rhythm sounds. One sound with a slight bump at 2k is going to sound louder even though your LEDs tell you other wise. I wish I could clone myself to run sound when I'm performing. Jun

 

 

Understood, but feel that my point, too many guys listening with their eyes, is a sad problematic issue- along with the reality that most sound guys got their position, not because they were qualified, rather because they were available. Can't tell you how many times I've had sound guys try to exercise their God complex and say that what I want can't be done, forcing me to get off the stage, go over to the board and show them that it in fact, CAN.