many men will not be getting their Cameron Amplifier from el jefe....

[Hardvalve]

Exactly. If the deal was he'd get "paid" for working, and that would go towards the cost of filling those outstanding orders until it was all cleared, at which point he'd actually get paid... if MC's not doing any work for them, he's not earning his pay. So why would they take their own money, even if it would have normally gone to MC for his work anyway to sort out MC's problems? Sure it'd be nice for the customers, but it's not their responsibility. If MC's walked away, building those old orders from their own money to sort out MC's problems... it's like BK going, "Hey, you've ditched us, but before you go let me just grab yer dick so I can shove it up my own arse while we're at it." They weren't in any way taking on the responsibility of clearing that backlog. What they did was come up with a solution for how it could be cleared at MC's expense. It wasn't a case of BK honoring those old orders, it was MC honoring them via BK.

 

He built the trust of people that he would do the stand up thing. This will bite him in tthe ass even more than it already has. I guarantee he will make more money in the long run, if he does what he originally intended when Mark was involved. He could be viewed as a stand upo guy, and build a solid rep. As of now this is a giant mark on his character, intended or not.

[Hardvalve]

+1,000,000 Why are people not getting this?

 

Why are YOU not getting it?

[rlord1974]

Why are people not getting this?

Because many men here have not been taking their meds.....

[jlb32]

If you know all this, then how do you not understand this situation? How is the license arrangement working? Per amp? Up front - one time? Enlighten me. Mark is not doing anything, so how is he earning a salary/share with which to pay for the amps owed? Why should any of the other partners pay?

 

 

They needed Mark from the get go obviously for the designs and the name. I'm sure Mark was doing stuff to earn his share before disappearing but after getting the designs and name I don't see it being anything they can't do without him.

 

All I'm saying is they are still building and selling the amps for the same price as if Mark was still there. Where is Marks share going now that he's not around to have it held out? What happened to Marks withheld money from the amps that were built and sold before he left?

[Rayneman]

He built the trust of people that he would do the stand up thing. This will bite him in tthe ass even more than it already has. I guarantee he will make more money in the long run, if he does what he originally intended when Mark was involved. He could be viewed as a stand upo guy, and build a solid rep. As of now this is a giant mark on his character, intended or not.

 

 

Does "the stand up thing" = building and sending new CCV amps to those people who originally paid MC for them, irrespective of whether MC had fulfilled his end of the bargain? So, really, everyone does indeed understand Brad King's real intent here (as explained ad nauseum both on HCAF and RT) but still feels Brad is at fault for not providing these amps EVEN IF his conditions for doing so weren't met? If this is the case, then there are simply two opposing camps of thought rather than some global misunderstanding.

 

Based on what I know at this time, given the current circumstances, Brad King is not on the hook to provide the missing CCV amps. However, it is also my understanding that the majority of HCAF members feels it would be in his best interest to go ahead and give amps (at whatever loss it may be) to those who are owed amps from the prior MC regime. That seems like a lot of good will considering these "MC bail-out" amps would then almost double the number of CCVs already in existence not to mention alienate the current batch of guys who paid Brad for a 2nd run CCV. A mess indeed.

[Hardvalve]

 

They needed Mark from the get go obviously for the designs and the name. I'm sure Mark was doing stuff to earn his share before disappearing but after getting the designs and name I don't see it being anything they can't do without him. All I'm saying is they are still building and selling the amps for the same price as if Mark was still there. Where is Marks share going now that he's not around to have it held out? What happened to Marks withheld money from the amps that were built and sold before he left?

 

 

Good luck getting those answers.....

[PurityS.L.G.]

Mark Cameron is legendary

The amount of responses threads regarding him is astonishing. His amps are simply juiced up Marshalls...can any of you NOT achieve that tone with an upper mid heavy amp boosted with a good OD and/or GEQ pedal? You really need to spend $4K to cover up your {censored} '80's metal riffs?

FACT: A certain poster in this thread(not me, but take another guess), who has great ears for tone BTW, can achieve similar tones of a CCV from an amp modeler. ZOMG!!! MIND=BLOWN!!

Why do we all forget so easily that 95% of amp designs are based on Fender, Marshall and Vox circuits?

[Rayneman]

 

Where is Marks share going now that he's not around to have it held out? What happened to Marks withheld money from the amps that were built and sold before he left?

 

 

This here seems to be the sticky part of the funding for the "missing CCV" amps that nobody can explain. The first run amps were sold, so the $$ went somewhere. Oh hell I'm going to bed this is some crazy stuff. I personally don't feel like King is trying to screw anyone over at all but things relating to the whole Cameron amp deal certainly seem to have gotten out of control.

[jlb32]

 

He built the trust of people that he would do the stand up thing. This will bite him in tthe ass even more than it already has. I guarantee he will make more money in the long run, if he does what he originally intended when Mark was involved. He could be viewed as a stand upo guy, and build a solid rep. As of now this is a giant mark on his character, intended or not.

 

 

I agree. It has nothing to do with him being obligated or responsible for Marks past dealings but he is the one that brought the idea out into the public so now it will be a big mark on him, intended or not, like you stated.

 

In reality it wouldn't cost him anymore to do it without Mark than it would with Mark. It probably would cost him less without Mark since now that Marks gone he doesn't have to pay Mark anything. It's just something that could really boost his reputation over hurting it. As a business I wouldn't look at it as helping Mark or funding Marks scams, I would look at it as great advertising of being a good honorable company. In all honesty as a business this should have never even been brought out to the public until it was actually going to happen.

[rushtallica]

 

He built the trust of people that he would do the stand up thing. This will bite him in tthe ass even more than it already has. I guarantee he will make more money in the long run, if he does what he originally intended when Mark was involved. He could be viewed as a stand upo guy, and build a solid rep. As of now this is a giant mark on his character, intended or not.

 

 

Yeah; it's a clusterfvck of a situation, but trying to look at if from as neutral a perspective as possible, I think people without much inside knowledge but who know just enough to be aware that a fair number of people were involved in bad business transactions with Mark will associate that with this new version of the business name.

 

Also of importance, did Brad ever promise everyone who paid any money previously would get an amp? I do remember a thread where it seemed that it was a desire to do the best possible to help those people, but I can't recall any specific promise to all who had money tied into getting something from Mark. If Brad never specifically promised everyone that, it's not as bad IMO for his name as it would be otherwise.

 

Also, there is the possibility that whatever percentage Mark would have received has had to be turned away to other people to take up whatever work he possibly would've done. If that's the case, the money would directly be coming from people's pockets instead of Brad just taking in that much more money. And I don't imagine $2500-$3k amps mostly familiar to the glam metal/'80s crowd are continuously selling like hotcakes. It's difficult to stay in business without making a profit, let alone possibly not breaking even. If the promise was made and something beyond his control changed his ability to do something promised, it's just a {censored}ty situation and doesn't make him a bad person. And it's possible I'm way off base. Again, with lack of information, just trying to think of scenarios.

 

As before, I hope the best for everyone invovled.

[cavemanic]

 

Why do we all forget so easily that 95% of amp designs are based on Fender, Marshall and Vox circuits?

 

 

because people feel the need to add an extra inch on there dick ....these 'boutique' amps very rarely EVER end up on albums that are reverved for tone anyway....

[willy22]

Can't decide if there's more {censored}-slinging or {censored}-talking here. Obviously some guys have it out for Brad no matter what. He helped some people get their amps who had dealt solely with Mark long before Brad even got involved. There's no way he could have gotten everyone's money or amps delivered. From what I remember about those promises was that he said he'd do the best he could. The key factor in this whole thing is that Mark Cameron is a compulsive liar, addict, and thief. But, he's an extremely talented amp modder. The primary factor in this whole crap fest is MARK CAMERON. He's the one who took the money and ran. Why shouldn't Brad take over the name and have the amps built? People want them and Mark sure as hell isn't gonna deliver. Brad is and has delivered with the orders he has taken.

 

I'm really trying to be unbiased here because I really don't care either way. I've been watching this debacle unfold for about 3 or 4 years now or however long it's been going on. All I know and can say with absolute certainty is this...Mark Cameron is the one who stole a lot of people's money and never delivered the amps he was supposed. Brad King has been up front with customers and HAS delivered the amps he committed too since he took over the Cameron name.

[rushtallica]

 

Can't decide if there's more {censored}-slinging or {censored}-talking here. Obviously some guys have it out for Brad no matter what. He helped some people get their amps who had dealt solely with Mark long before Brad even got involved. There's no way he could have gotten everyone's money or amps delivered. From what I remember about those promises was that he said he'd do the best he could. The key factor in this whole thing is that Mark Cameron is a compulsive liar, addict, and thief. But, he's an extremely talented amp modder. The primary factor in this whole crap fest is MARK CAMERON. He's the one who took the money and ran. Why shouldn't Brad take over the name and have the amps built? People want them and Mark sure as hell isn't gonna deliver. Brad is and has delivered with the orders he has taken. I'm really trying to be unbiased here because I really don't care either way. I've been watching this debacle unfold for about 3 or 4 years now or however long it's been going on. All I know and can say with absolute certainty is this...Mark Cameron is the one who stole a lot of people's money and never delivered the amps he was supposed. Brad King has been up front with customers and HAS delivered the amps he committed too since he took over the Cameron name.

 

 

Yeah, if there haven't been any bad dealings with those who've placed orders since he's been a part of it, that's going to be a positive for him, though I don't think there's any way to be completely unscathed just because of the negative aspect of the name association to go along with the very positive part of it.

[willy22]

Also of importance, did Brad ever promise everyone who paid any money previously would get an amp? I do remember a thread where it seemed that it was a desire to do the best possible to help those people, but I can't recall any specific promise to all who had money tied into getting something from Mark. If Brad never specifically promised everyone that, it's not as bad IMO for his name as it would be otherwise. As before, I hope the best for everyone invovled.

 

 

He did not promise to get all the amps Mark was supposed to build to their owners. He said he would do the best he could. Brad came into the situation some time after Mark had made those deals and was trying to help those people out. It cannot be Brad's responsibility anyway because he was not involved in those deals. He came in some time afterwards and was trying to do the best he could to right a severely messed-up situation.

[DeadNight Warrior]

He built the trust of people that he would do the stand up thing. This will bite him in tthe ass even more than it already has. I guarantee he will make more money in the long run, if he does what he originally intended when Mark was involved. He could be viewed as a stand upo guy, and build a solid rep. As of now this is a giant mark on his character, intended or not.

 

 

Again, it wasn't going to be BK taking over the old orders. He's not responsible. Him "honoring" those old orders depends on MC honoring his side of that arrangement and doing work for BK. Which is apparently not happening. Again, it's not really BK honoring those orders; it's MC honoring the orders, but he needs to do it through BK coz he's too much of a useless {censored} to do it otherwise. If anyone feels their trust has been betrayed by BK, they misunderstood the situation to begin with.

 

Think of it this way. What if BK had never said anything about those old orders, and instead MC sent an email out to all those {censored}ed-over customers saying, "Looks like I'll be able to fill those orders after all. What's going to happen is, I'll work for BK, he'll pay me for that work. I'll then use that money to buy all the components and whatnot so I can personally build all those amps until the backlog is cleared." If he was doing the work for BK but not doing anything about those orders, who would you get {censored}ty at? If he wasn't even doing the work for BK and just disappeared, would you get {censored}ty at BK about it?

 

Because in effect, that was the arrangement. Except that because MC is such a disgusting cuntflap, BK did the communicating, and they weren't even going to put the money in his account for him to take care of it; they were just going to put it straight towards clearing that backlog.

 

 

The problem for BK is that it seems no matter how clearly he explains the situation, people don't get it, and it'll drag his name down. If BK starts {censored}ing people over on orders, or already has done so, that's another matter. But for these old orders, it's all on MC. We're not talking about a huge company taking over the Cameron stuff, where the cost of clearing out that backlog to just clear the name would be relatively insignificant. We're talking small business, where thousands (or tens of thousands? I dunno how many amps it is) of dollars are going towards clearing a problem that wasn't factored into the price of whatever they bought because they weren't taking on that liability. Or is BK to turn to his suppliers and say, "Hey, even though this isn't at all your responsibility... how about you give us all these parts for free so we can sort out MC's bull{censored}?"

 

He probably would have been better off to just say from the start, "We're not doing a single thing about those old orders. We haven't taken on that responsibility in any way. The money was paid to MC, and MC is the one responsible for filling those orders. So unfortunately, you'll have to take it up with him." Unfortunately he instead tried to be nice and sorted out an arrangement in which people would get their amps without it costing him anything (which is fair enough, seeing as BK was never paid for those amps), aside from what they'd be "paying" to MC to cover the costs ("pay" which he'd be earning through work he'd do for them). And now that it turns out MC in fact never stopped {censored}ing people over, they're mistakenly shifting the blame to BK.

[Shine]

The point being, the amp autographed by a crackhead is worth more?

 

 

Got it.

 

 

Seriously anyone who buys into that {censored} deserves to have their balls ripped off, wrapped in barb wire, and then butt {censored}ed by Drakkar.

[rushtallica]

 

He did not promise to get all the amps Mark was supposed to build to their owners. He said he would do the best he could . Brad came into the situation some time after Mark had made those deals and was trying to help those people out. It cannot be Brad's responsibility anyway because he was not involved in those deals. He came in some time afterwards and was trying to do the best he could to right a severely messed-up situation.

 

 

That matches up with what I remember, but I wasn't sure if there were other previous threads stating something different. Putting funny/strange video clips and pics aside and just putting the situation into logical perspective, if he promised he'd do the best he could do, and assuming that Mark being out of the picture makes an already difficult situation more difficult, I definitely couldn't be one to bash or blame him, though I do hope that if the brand becomes/is successful that he will over time continue to help those people as he can.

[rushtallica]

The point being, the amp autographed by a crackhead is worth more? Got it. Seriously anyone who buys into that {censored} deserves to have their balls ripped off, wrapped in barb wire, and then butt {censored}ed by Drakkar.

 

 

Aside from the signature, though, as with block letter 5150's over sigs and then sig 5150's over 6505's, some people probably really feel the earlier and/or more rare editions are worth more.

[grunge782]

The best amp I have ever heard was a Cameron modded Marshall. That said, {censored} all that {censored}, I'd just buy a Ceriatone.

[willy22]

 

That matches up with what I remember, but I wasn't sure if there were other previous threads stating something different. Putting funny/strange video clips and pics aside and just putting the situation into logical perspective, if he promised he'd do the best he could do, and assuming that Mark being out of the picture makes an already difficult situation more difficult, I definitely couldn't be one to bash or blame him, though I do hope that if the brand becomes/is successful that he will over time help those people as he can.

 

 

I think he would if he could, but honestly it's such a messed up situation (between Mark and HIS customers) that it's far beyond saving now. Those who gave Mark their money then are never going to see it again.

 

Again, don't get me wrong. It may seem like I'm trying to swing on Brad's pole (there are some guys at RT who do) but I'm just calling it like I see it. Personally, I think Brad is kinda a poser, but he's not a thief. He delivers what he sells. He saw a good opportunity with Cameron amps and went for it.

[rushtallica]

 

The best amp I have ever heard was a Cameron modded Marshall. That said, {censored} all that {censored}, I'd just buy a Ceriatone.

 

 

A funny thing; at least before modding it, IMO my Rockmaster preamp running into the low input of my '78 2204 seemed to have fairly similar tone characteristics to a couple Cameron clips that I thought sounded pretty good.

[rushtallica]

I think he would if he could, but honestly it's such a messed up situation (between Mark and HIS customers) that it's far beyond saving now. Those who gave Mark their money then are never going to see it again. Again, don't get me wrong. It may seem like I'm trying to swing on Brad's pole (there are some guys at RT who do) but I'm just calling it like I see it. Personally, I think Brad is kinda a poser, but he's not a thief. He delivers what he sells. He saw a good opportunity with Cameron amps and went for it.

Yeah, I feel bad for those who've been screwed over in dealings with Mark, but I'm not getting a sense of any wrongdoing so far by Brad -- especially nothing purposeful.

[Grrrip]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I remember reading that MC would not be involved with the new company at all, the new entity purposely distanced themselves from him, only to license his name and designs. So I don't get how how he was working for the new entity?

[NaturalBornBoy]

Idiots with too much money and very little common sense deserve to get ripped off.

 

Seriously, in this day and age, getting ripped off by the likes of Scameron with the plethora of great amps out in the market that sound awesome for much less money and no likelihood of getting scammed........

[guitarbilly74]

 

Again, it wasn't going to be BK taking over the old orders. He's not responsible. Him "honoring" those old orders depends on MC honoring his side of that arrangement and doing work for BK. Which is apparently not happening. Again, it's not really BK honoring those orders; it's MC honoring the orders, but he needs to do it through BK coz he's too much of a useless {censored} to do it otherwise. If anyone feels their trust has been betrayed by BK, they misunderstood the situation to begin with. Think of it this way. What if BK had never said anything about those old orders, and instead MC sent an email out to all those {censored}ed-over customers saying, "Looks like I'll be able to fill those orders after all. What's going to happen is, I'll work for BK, he'll pay me for that work. I'll then use that money to buy all the components and whatnot so I can personally build all those amps until the backlog is cleared." If he was doing the work for BK but not doing anything about those orders, who would you get {censored}ty at? If he wasn't even doing the work for BK and just disappeared, would you get {censored}ty at BK about it? Because in effect, that was the arrangement. Except that because MC is such a disgusting cuntflap, BK did the communicating, and they weren't even going to put the money in his account for him to take care of it; they were just going to put it straight towards clearing that backlog. The problem for BK is that it seems no matter how clearly he explains the situation, people don't get it, and it'll drag his name down. If BK starts {censored}ing people over on orders, or already has done so, that's another matter. But for these old orders, it's all on MC. We're not talking about a huge company taking over the Cameron stuff, where the cost of clearing out that backlog to just clear the name would be relatively insignificant. We're talking small business, where thousands (or tens of thousands? I dunno how many amps it is) of dollars are going towards clearing a problem that wasn't factored into the price of whatever they bought because they weren't taking on that liability. Or is BK to turn to his suppliers and say, "Hey, even though this isn't at all your responsibility... how about you give us all these parts for free so we can sort out MC's bull{censored}?" He probably would have been better off to just say from the start, "We're not doing a single thing about those old orders. We haven't taken on that responsibility in any way. The money was paid to MC, and MC is the one responsible for filling those orders. So unfortunately, you'll have to take it up with him." Unfortunately he instead tried to be nice and sorted out an arrangement in which people would get their amps without it costing him anything (which is fair enough, seeing as BK was never paid for those amps), aside from what they'd be "paying" to MC to cover the costs ("pay" which he'd be earning through work he'd do for them). And now that it turns out MC in fact never stopped {censored}ing people over, they're mistakenly shifting the blame to BK.

 

 

that's a nice piece of fictional writing. You are very creative.

 

But the fact is that Brad said he would pay royalties per amp to MC and that money initially would go to pay the customers he screwed up. He even asked everybody who send money to Mark to post there and organized a tally to keep track of whom he had to pay back.

 

He also said Mark would not to have anything to do with any of the production, fulfillment or money.

 

Read the {censored}ing thread instead of coming up with fantasy crap to justify the BS this whole deal is.

 

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=86741

 

 

posted on rig talk by Brad King: f you read the thread its laid out but to recap. As long as I can get this bird off the ground and produced the plan is to take Marks royalty due on the new builds I produce and sell and put that money towards the 14 or so guys who paid Mark long ago and didn't get an amp. As we sell new ones the money that is due Mark will go to getting the missing CCV's produced which is the right thing to do seeing how he got the money before and you got no amp. This is not my obligation and I am going to lose a bunch of dough making this wrong right but hopefully I will make it up on the back end, but regardless its the right thing to do and the only way I can see to make you guys whole and get blood from a stone so to speak by generating revenue to dig Mark out of this mess and make sure you guys don't get screwed over. I just need you "Pre Brad" guys who took the leap of faith with Mark to be patient with me and not kick me in the nuts because you don't get the first amps. I am the calvary here trying to help. I cant get yours paid for until I sell some amps. Make sense?