Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 it's very simple: a cut of the profit from the amp would go to Mark and that money was going to be used to build the amps he promised until everyone had their amp. Now Mark is gone so that SAME cut still could go directly to building the amps. Brad decided it is going to his pocket instead and neither Mark nor the customers Mark scammed will get {censored}. Remember, the amps did not get cheaper after Mark left. The same percentage of the profit that was allegedly allocated to fix the mess is still there. The only difference is: Brad will pocket the whole thing now. If that's not douchebaggery, I don't know what is. Wow. Did you read the contract between Mark and Brad? How do you know how Mark was to be compensated? Maybe part of the deal was that Mark had to actually do something with the production to be compensated further beyond an initial license fee. What about Metro/George...I don't think he is working for free. Anyway, I don't know how many of the first run Mark CCVs Mark was involved with before he flaked. I do recall that one or two CCVs went out to people who got scammed. Not sure who. If that was a lie, then that would be douchebaggery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb32 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 those questions have been answered on RT. Basically because it was difficult build/service in an efficient manner the way Mark designed it. Metro amps redesigned the lay-out to streamline production. Supposedly supposed to sound the same, but I don't think it's what people had in mind when they put $ down for a CCV thinking MC would be involved. What does that have to do with Mark leaving and Brad backing out of the deal he had with older customers that got ripped off by Mark? IMO it sounds more like Brad is hating on Mark for leaving so he's making Marks old customers pay the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teemuk Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 How big is the list now?DARCameronTattooSurreal(to some extent) Diezel +BlueslandBlues PearlBluetron AmpsDoc ElectroHeritageHollandLittle Lanilei & MahaffayRobin AmplificationSummitZwengelTwister Yet the amount of boutiques is probably in thousands so these failures are a mere scratch in the surface. However, I still wouldn't trust my money to something that is obviously not a professional business but borderlining a slightly profitable (if even that) hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 I never understood why Mark was involved at all. Ok, that's not true, I do, the name & association! "Hey, that genius flake is on board with us now!"But if you already had the name & designs kick the flake to the curb and don't say you'll do your best to fulfill old orders out of his share of the money. It would've pissed people off initially, but the hub-bub would've died down instead of dragging on and lingering. Bad situation all around really. Because a Cameron labeled amp with that was actually approved/signed by Mark is worth more to amp buying consumers than one that is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Because a Cameron labeled amp with that was actually approved/signed by Mark is worth more to amp buying consumers than one that is not. Excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb32 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow. Did you read the contract between Mark and Brad? How do you know how Mark was to be compensated? Because Brad stated that was their agreement as far as I know. Mark would work and his share would go to pay off his old customers orders first. After that was taken care of Mark would then get whatever their agreed salary and compensation was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 What does that have to do with Mark leaving and Brad backing out of the deal he had with older customers that got ripped off by Mark? IMO it sounds more like Brad is hating on Mark for leaving so he's making Marks old customers pay the price. Deal? What consideration did Brad receive for there to be a binding deal? Brad came up with a plan to help people get an amp that they had no chance of ever receiving. Because that plan involved the participation of MC to be sucessfull, of course it failed. He never said they'd get an amp no matter what. He laid out what it would have to happen to get those people amps. It didn't. I think the only reason he offered in the first place was for goodwill and brand promotion. Yes I agree it was handled bad. I probably would have been smarter to just eat the cost of supplying people amps just to move past the whole Scameron BS - but he had no obligation to due so. I'm not sure how many would want to pay for the mistakes of others. Probably should have made Marks compensation for the designs be that he would honor Marks committments - with no further obligation to him, but that's not the way it went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb32 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Because a Cameron labeled amp with that was actually approved/signed by Mark is worth more to amp buying consumers than one that is not.IMO as long as people know the design was Marks and it sounded like the CCV people wanted I think most could care less if it was approved/signed by Mark. Marks reputation hasn't been very good for a long while if you havn't noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Interesting. I can see what the Brad guy is saying to a point but at the same time when you buyout a company (small or big) IMO you buy their responsibilities also. Not necessarily. It might be a case of an asset acquisition where the acquirer chooses which assets and liabilities they do or don't want to take over in the deal. Same thing happened at the place I'm working at. The big {censored}ers came along and bought what they wanted from us, left what they didn't want. If something went wrong on a project that was finished a week before we changed hands, the responsibility stayed with the old company (which still technically exists). It's been an absolute cluster {censored} since day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Because Brad stated that was their agreement as far as I know. Mark would work and his share would go to pay off his old customers orders first. After that was taken care of Mark would then get whatever their agreed salary and compensation was. If you know all this, then how do you not understand this situation? How is the license arrangement working? Per amp? Up front - one time? Enlighten me. Mark is not doing anything, so how is he earning a salary/share with which to pay for the amps owed? Why should any of the other partners pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 IMO as long as people know the design was Marks and it sounded like the CCV people wanted I think most could care less if it was approved/signed by Mark. Marks reputation hasn't been very good for a long while if you havn't noticed. All else being equal, a Cameron amp signed by Mark is worth more than one that isn't. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow. Did you read the contract between Mark and Brad? How do you know how Mark was to be compensated? Maybe part of the deal was that Mark had to actually do something with the production to be compensated further beyond an initial license fee. What about Metro/George...I don't think he is working for free. Anyway, I don't know how many of the first run Mark CCVs Mark was involved with before he flaked. I do recall that one or two CCVs went out to people who got scammed. Not sure who. If that was a lie, then that would be douchebaggery. I did not have to read the contract. It was posted openly by Brad at his forum that this was the agreement. I'm pretty sure the actual contract exonerates him from any responsibility, because that's what lawyers do. Still doesn't change the fact he built this brand based on that promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb32 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Deal? What consideration did Brad receive for there to be a binding deal? Brad came up with a plan to help people get an amp that they had no chance of ever receiving. Because that plan involved the participation of MC to be sucessfull, of course it failed. He never said they'd get an amp no matter what. He laid out what it would have to happen to get those people amps. It didn't. I think the only reason he offered in the first place was for goodwill and brand promotion. Yes I agree it was handled bad. I probably would have been smarter to just eat the cost of supplying people amps just to move past the whole Scameron BS - but he had no obligation to due so. I'm not sure how many would want to pay for the mistakes of others. Probably should have made Marks compensation for the designs be that he would honor Marks committments - with no further obligation to him, but that's not the way it went down. You are right. There is no obligation for him but yet he is the one that came out with the idea. Yes Mark bailed but does that really change anything? He obviously has the designs and everything he needs from Mark to make the amps. He was willing to honor Marks commitments with Mark there but without Mark he won't? Like I said, it sounds more like he's just taking his hate for Mark leaving out on Marks old customers more than Mark leaving actually meaning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 All else being equal, a Cameron amp signed by Mark is worth more than one that isn't. Fact. I'm not disputing your claim but since it is fact, would you mind supplying a link to your data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 I did not have to read the contract. It was posted openly by Brad at his forum that this was the agreement. I'm pretty sure the actual contract exonerates him from any responsibility, because that's what lawyers do. Still doesn't change the fact he built this brand based on that promise. If you know enough about what was posted on RT, how is anything I've said a surprise. As I said, I'm not cheerleading for Brad, I have not personal interest in his business or dealings. I'm just stating facts as I understand them from what I read...and as someone who bought and received a first run CCV (that MC signed). I didn't buy an amp from him because it was gonna help people who got screwed by MC (sucks, but really not my concern) ....so I'm not sure that's how he built the brand. I bought it because I previously owned a MC CCV and regretted selling it. I wanted another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 I did not have to read the contract. It was posted openly by Brad at his forum that this was the agreement. I'm pretty sure the actual contract exonerates him from any responsibility, because that's what lawyers do. Still doesn't change the fact he built this brand based on that promise. The brand existed prior to his promise didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb32 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 All else being equal, a Cameron amp signed by Mark is worth more than one that isn't. Fact. How is that a fact? Is Brad now lowering the price of the CCV and CCM since Mark is not there to sign them now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm not disputing your claim but since it is fact, would you mind supplying a link to your data? lol. WWMGD? Personal experience....though undocumented on teh interwebz.... I wouldn't have paid $3585 for a CCV if Mark wasn't involved. Also check every Marshall mod spam thread. There's always a picture of Marks signature (if not, then a post of someone asking if it was signed by Mark). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Don't be silly. If you had the choice between a CCV signed by Mark or not, which would you choose. Same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 lol. WWMGD? Personal experience....though undocumented on teh interwebz.... I wouldn't have paid $3585 for a CCV if Mark wasn't involved. Also check every Marshall mod spam thread. There's always a picture of Marks signature (if not, then a post of someone asking if it was signed by Mark). I see. Personal experience = fact to you. I guess I can't argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seajay Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Oy. The saga continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 The brand existed prior to his promise didn't it? nope, at that point Cameron was just a handful handmade or modded amps out there and a $40k scam by the guy who built them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hardvalve Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 It appears Brad closed the other thread, and just saw this.... http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=122245&p=1425238#p1425238 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Mark is not doing anything, so how is he earning a salary/share with which to pay for the amps owed? Why should any of the other partners pay?Exactly. If the deal was he'd get "paid" for working, and that would go towards the cost of filling those outstanding orders until it was all cleared, at which point he'd actually get paid... if MC's not doing any work for them, he's not earning his pay. So why would they take their own money, even if it would have normally gone to MC for his work anyway to sort out MC's problems? Sure it'd be nice for the customers, but it's not their responsibility. If MC's walked away, building those old orders from their own money to sort out MC's problems... it's like BK going, "Hey, you've ditched us, but before you go let me just grab yer dick so I can shove it up my own arse while we're at it."They weren't in any way taking on the responsibility of clearing that backlog. What they did was come up with a solution for how it could be cleared at MC's expense. It wasn't a case of BK honoring those old orders, it was MC honoring them via BK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted August 31, 2012 Members Share Posted August 31, 2012 Exactly. If the deal was he'd get "paid" for working, and that would go towards the cost of filling those outstanding orders until it was all cleared, at which point he'd actually get paid... if MC's not doing any work for them, he's not earning his pay. So why would they take their own money, even if it would have normally gone to MC for his work anyway to sort out MC's problems? Sure it'd be nice for the customers, but it's not their responsibility. If MC's walked away, building those old orders from their own money to sort out MC's problems... it's like BK going, "Hey, you've ditched us, but before you go let me just grab yer dick so I can shove it up my own arse while we're at it." They weren't in any way taking on the responsibility of clearing that backlog. What they did was come up with a solution for how it could be cleared at MC's expense. It wasn't a case of BK honoring those old orders, it was MC honoring them via BK. +1,000,000 Why are people not getting this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.