Members Zeppelin Rules Posted November 2, 2012 Members Share Posted November 2, 2012 I know the 5150 III is a total favour of the month here but I couldn't think of a worse amp for a back line. It doesn't have the versatility you need for this application. I'd look at the fender hot rod deluxe or Peavey classic 50/30. I know you said you don't like Marshall, but I've seen DSL 50/100 heads as the standard back lines for a lot of shows for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted November 2, 2012 Members Share Posted November 2, 2012 Like you mentioned, sometimes you get the guy that lets you crank it and then turns you up further in the mains . These are the GOOD sound guys, who understand how a rock band plays and are capable of getting a mix that is loud AND clear. They usually work at venues that also understand how rock concerts are supposed to be. These venues are getting hard to find, but the ones that still exist, have been in business for many years, often times with the same sound crew I also love venues with vocal-only mics that let you fill the room with your amp. Actually, that's what most small venues should do, instead of getting a P.A. and a trained monkey that thinks every amp should be whisper quiet and turned up in the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 This. I don't even carry any sort of distortion pedals anymore, because I rely 100% on either my Bogner or my Marshall. Both master volume, tube, and sound great at reasonable stage volumes. It's not likely you'll have something in a "house" backline that I'd be happy with - not because it might not be a decent amp, but because I probably can't get close to my sound, get the FX loop to work with my rack, etc. Agree 100%! BTW, if you have to tell the guitar player to turn down more than once, then he's probably not experienced enough for the amp to matter anyway..... good points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Marshall dsl or a fender twin. Don't be a dummy and deny marshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NITROHOLIC Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 easy to mic up? not to loud? ampeg v4 is the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 These are the GOOD sound guys, who understand how a rock band plays and are capable of getting a mix that is loud AND clear. They usually work at venues that also understand how rock concerts are supposed to be. These venues are getting hard to find, but the ones that still exist, have been in business for many years, often times with the same sound crew I also love venues with vocal-only mics that let you fill the room with your amp. Actually, that's what most small venues should do, instead of getting a P.A. and a trained monkey that thinks every amp should be whisper quiet and turned up in the PA. But if you are going for a good stage volume mix(which you obviously should be) you want to match volume with the drummer, which probably won't be whisper quiet in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members martyr40 Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 A Peavey Ultra, JSX, or XXX would be fine - they all have three channels and that allows folks to cover a lot of ground. Plus they're tube so you can check that block too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 But if you are going for a good stage volume mix(which you obviously should be) you want to match volume with the drummer, which probably won't be whisper quiet in that case. yeah, that's what I am saying, but some sound guys just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Find a used Peavey Special for $75-150. Replace Sheffield speakers if desired. Have 3 channels from solid cleans to insane metal distortion for under $300 even with speaker replacement. I know, I know, they are 1) Peavey and 2) SS, but those amps, for the money used are seriously amazing and could cover a lot of ground for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shane159 Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Marshall dsl or a fender twin.Don't be a dummy and deny marshall. Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dolf Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Like others have said, need to know the application to give sound advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR Posted November 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thanks for all of the help here. Gave me a few ideas on what to look for. Some guitar players are easier to work with than others, but I think everything should go into monitor mixes so that all of the musicians can hear the other musicians. That is what I prefer when I'm playing bass on stage. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thanks for all of the help here. Gave me a few ideas on what to look for. Some guitar players are easier to work with than others, but I think everything should go into monitor mixes so that all of the musicians can hear the other musicians. That is what I prefer when I'm playing bass on stage. Thanks again No offense here, but not everyone is a bass player, and not everyone enjoys that style of monitor mixing. I actually don't like any guitar in the monitors when I play out, I just try and pump up stage volume. In that same vein though, I've never been told to turn down by a sound man. I'd say the best medium is to just have a backline cab and start there. Get a good quality cab, with some pretty universal speakers and let that be a jumping off point. Worry about backlining the amp only when and if it becomes an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yourguitarhero Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Yeah, but you don't have to be in your own monitor - he means so he can put some in the bass player, singer, or drummer or whatever's monitor. I like a little of my own guitar in the monitor and some of the other guitarist if he is on the other side of the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thanks for all of the help here. Gave me a few ideas on what to look for. Some guitar players are easier to work with than others, but I think everything should go into monitor mixes so that all of the musicians can hear the other musicians. That is what I prefer when I'm playing bass on stage. Thanks againI'd rather hear the actual amps than the instrument in the wedges. You can do most of that with amp location/positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Yeah, but you don't have to be in your own monitor - he means so he can put some in the bass player, singer, or drummer or whatever's monitor. I like a little of my own guitar in the monitor and some of the other guitarist if he is on the other side of the stage.not me. Neither do most of the musicians I've worked with over the years. Its nice to keep the wedges as close to "vocals-only" as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteinbergerHack Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 not me. Neither do most of the musicians I've worked with over the years. Its nice to keep the wedges as close to "vocals-only" as possible. Makes things a lot easier, unless you have a large stage or a number of acoustic instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Better monitors, set up and EQ'd correctly, will sound pretty much the same as the actual amp. In most "house sound" situations I've seen. though, I would agree with you.Makes things a lot easier, unless you have a large stage or a number of acoustic instruments.true, but it is still easier to sing if you can "locate" vocals in the monitor easily. As for the 2nd part, I prefer sidefills for instruments if you have a wide, shallow stage setup, whenever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 not me. Neither do most of the musicians I've worked with over the years. Its nice to keep the wedges as close to "vocals-only" as possible. I agree 100%. I prefer to hear instruments through their amps and have vocals only in the monitors. That's how we normally practice, so obviously that is the scenario we are more comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretout Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 I would say any simul-class loaded amp would be perfect. Pick the one that's in your price range. You won't regret it. If your just looking for a good, clean Poweramp, just pick up the most stripped-down Mark III you can find. They seem to go through trends where they'll be $500-$600 and then jump up to $1,000-$1,200, so just look for the best deal. If you're looking for a great amp on the cheap, this is would I would recommend. Pick up a non-GEQ, Simul-Class Mark IIIs, and if you end up liking the preamp (I happen to love them), pick up a MXR EQ Pedal and run it through the loop, and have a killer, inexpensive, versatile amp that nothing in that price range can touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa/Kramer Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Face amp cabs in side ways like a side fill and you should be able to run louder on stage and keep the out front mic'd mix balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NITROHOLIC Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Face amp cabs in side ways like a side fill and you should be able to run louder on stage and keep the out front mic'd mix balanced. {censored}in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR Posted November 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2012 This has always been a problem for me. I prefer NMV amps/old Marshalls, and, well, we know how those work with sound guys. Some guys totally are just like "yeah, crank it up man, whatever you want we'll make it work" which is totally awesome and I'm super appreciative. But then there are the real sticklers, with whom I usually end up verbally fighting with. "Bro that guitar has to come down." "Then I lose my distortion. Can't play this music clean." "But it's too loud." "Well what do you want me to do? There is absolutely nothing I can do to make this quieter." I don't really feel like I should invest $300 in an attenuator just to appease a few sound guys. Venues should have attenuators just like they have mics; if they want the FOH mix to sound a certain way, that's really their issue, is it not?I always get a little stressed out when I fire up my Super Lead and buddy mics my cab(s) up haha Turn it with the back facing you, then. Did you read my entire post? Marshalls are sonic weapons in my book. I also liked what Mesa suggested. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR Posted November 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2012 I would say any simul-class loaded amp would be perfect. Pick the one that's in your price range. You won't regret it. If your just looking for a good, clean Poweramp, just pick up the most stripped-down Mark III you can find. They seem to go through trends where they'll be $500-$600 and then jump up to $1,000-$1,200, so just look for the best deal. If you're looking for a great amp on the cheap, this is would I would recommend. Pick up a non-GEQ, Simul-Class Mark IIIs, and if you end up liking the preamp (I happen to love them), pick up a MXR EQ Pedal and run it through the loop, and have a killer, inexpensive, versatile amp that nothing in that price range can touch. ...And the cabinet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR Posted November 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2012 I agree 100%. I prefer to hear instruments through their amps and have vocals only in the monitors. That's how we normally practice, so obviously that is the scenario we are more comfortable with. You would be surprised how much difference the guitars in the monitors make in the mix. It really helps let everybody else hear you and you hear can them instead of just yourself. I was blown away the first time I was in front of a monitor mix with all of the instruments blended. Made for a happy bass player and drummer who didn't get lost in the tune or the mix. I was told by this really loud guitar player once that I was too loud when I couldn't even hear myself he was so {censored}ing loud. I turned my amp all the way down, in spite of it. He noticed that he couldn't hear me after the tune was over. The only thing I could hear was him and the drummer and the keyboardist was left in the dust. That's who I was playing off of besides the drummer. That was the last time I saw the guy. MARSHALLS ARE {censored}ING WEAPONS!!!!!!!!! Are you trying to kill someone? Put it onboard the Sea Shepard for the NORAD's frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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