Members skunky_funk Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 At this day and age of compressors, drum replacement and multitrack recording, I always thought that you can make a hard-hitting drummer sound soft, and a dynamic drummer sound loud. So I just thought, would it be better for the drummer not to waste effort by not hitting too loud? It can save him drumheads too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Not if the style fits the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 3, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 3, 2006 I agree with Where. I suppose you can fake the sound of someone hitting their tubs with gusto but why? If you need the sound of the drums being pounded, then pound them. If it fits, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EngineGuitarist Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 i agree with the above posts. there's nothing worse that recording a rock song with a drummer who hits like an 8 year old girl. .....as long as they don't pound on the highhat:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 I tend to agree with the other guys In the end, you are after the performance and the rest of the process is pointing toward that end an individual drummer has developed their technique, the tone AND feel (both mechanical feel and aethetic reaction) having them artificially adjust that might very well be the wasted effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Hit the dang things already, would ya? As long as it's musical, I'd rather have those shells resonating a bit, and not just the heads vibrating slightly. I'd rather have "a touch too light, but consistent" than "loud and uncontrolled" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Hit the dang things already, would ya? As long as it's musical, Hey, wait Now I'm confused -- when did we shift from talking about drums to talking about musical instruments??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 For music that requires punchy drums, a hard-hitting drummer is a must. Yes, you can go a long way with heavily finessed compression, gating, eq, etc... but you're... what is that expression I see around? Polishing a... well, you know. The last recording arts class I took back in the mid-80s (and walked out of because the instructor, a local supposed-hot-stuff producer, insisted on monitoring everything at ear-bleed-producing levels), a production class, seemed to focus (at least in the first few weeks, ahem) on fixing crappy drum sounds. When I heard the some of the producer's raw drum tracks, I could see why he would become such a putative whiz at drum-salvaging. They were gawdawful and a half. (To be fair, he brought them in telling us they were bad and not his best work.) He managed to make them sound almost acceptable... which was an interesting process to me at the time, since I'd had precious little chance to even get my hands on decent compressors and gates through most of my school days. The same producer later did what was to be a friends "breakthrough" solo record. He took one of the hardest smacking, rockin'-est drummers on the local scene at the time and made him sound like an anemic drum machine... You want good drum sounds -- start with a good drummer playing a good kit -- and then don't F it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by MorePaul Hey, wait Now I'm confused -- when did we shift from talking about drums to talking about musical instruments??? Some people get all confused because many times drummers play with musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 For music that requires punchy drums, a hard-hitting drummer is a must. I've worked with many moderately tempered drummers that sounded huge with minimal volume. Drumkit choice, head choice, tuning, room acoustics, stick choice, all play a major factor in how the kit sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seaneldon Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 listen to Tom Waits' "Filipino Box Spring Hog" for a great example of the loudest drumming ever recorded. tell me if it was a waste of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Trying to use audio gear to recreate the sound of a hard hitting drummer is a task I think would be VERY difficult. Hitting the drums hard sounds way different than simple loudness. Sure, with individual mics and channels for everything, you can get the volumes to be pretty close no matter what you started with, but the timbre of loud versus soft is a big deal.Pretty much all musical instruments work that way. i.e., ff to fff is a way different timbre than pp to ppp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 I've worked with many moderately tempered drummers that sounded huge with minimal volume. Drumkit choice, head choice, tuning, room acoustics, stick choice, all play a major factor in how the kit sounds. Speaking as someone who can barely name the different types of cymbals, it seems to me to be a matter of technique as much as anything (obviously the stuff you mentioned is important, too). A newbie guitarist may try to play quietly and wind up buzzing a bunch of notes, while a professional classical guitarist will make his instrument sound beautiful. I, too, have seen many non-bashing drummers sound amazing. Well, maybe not "many," but enough to convince me that it's possible. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonik Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by EngineGuitarist i agree with the above posts. there's nothing worse that recording a rock song with a drummer who hits like an 8 year old girl. .....as long as they don't pound on the highhat:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matt_v Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer Trying to use audio gear to recreate the sound of a hard hitting drummer is a task I think would be VERY difficult. Hitting the drums hard sounds way different than simple loudness. Sure, with individual mics and channels for everything, you can get the volumes to be pretty close no matter what you started with, but the timbre of loud versus soft is a big deal.Pretty much all musical instruments work that way. i.e., ff to fff is a way different timbre than pp to ppp. this is true. there is different SOUND to hitting a drum softly, and hitting a drum hard. no amount of studio toys can replicate that. that's one thing that is annoying about working with samples. the TIMBRE of the drums on each individual hit is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 I don't know how many times I have to relearn the same old lesson over and over- a good, groovy, and consistantly hard-hitting drummer just makes my mixing life so sweet. Not wasted AT ALL. Put the smack-down on those drums and let the resonance ring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by EngineGuitarist i agree with the above posts. there's nothing worse that recording a rock song with a drummer who hits like an 8 year old girl. Hey, we've got some 8 year old girls here at my school who hit pretty damn hard!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It's funny you should say that. One of the more challenging jobs I've had was micing a Japanese girl drummer's drum kit. She was maybe 5 ft. tall on a sunny day, and had a kit that seemed as small as something you might buy at Toys 'R' Us. Half of the challenge was trying to physically squeeze the mics in to place. The other was trying to make it sound like she was really hitting those things. That said, it ended up coming out well, and the track appeared on a Cleopatra Records comp. But what a challenge... Oh, and yes. She was a good drummer. Always helps with the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogbreath Posted January 5, 2006 Members Share Posted January 5, 2006 ...what TBush said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted January 5, 2006 Members Share Posted January 5, 2006 compressors and mixes won't ever change the capture of a good drummer. skills over zilts (as in technology) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 5, 2006 Members Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 I've worked with many moderately tempered drummers that sounded huge with minimal volume. Drumkit choice, head choice, tuning, room acoustics, stick choice, all play a major factor in how the kit sounds. And, here, when I wrote: "For music that requires punchy drums, a hard-hitting drummer is a must," I was thinking I'd started out with something that was so simple and self-evident... but, yeah, obviously, a good drummer can make a part sound punchy through careful use of dynamics and -- WTH -- as I think about it now, you can probably get a much more dynamic feel by playing with a wider range of expressiveness. I guess it was my rock/punk background -- and the large number of less than stellar drummers I worked with -- talking. With the less than adept, I got into having drummers hit on the hard side to keep their consistency up... And, gawd... it was the eighties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 5, 2006 Members Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by seaneldon listen to Tom Waits' "Filipino Box Spring Hog" for a great example of the loudest drumming ever recorded. tell me if it was a waste of effort. Wondering if that's LB homey Steve Hodges on drums on that one. I looked it up on AllMusic but there was no drummer credit. If anyone ever gives me a budget (ha!), Hodges is first call for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lysakoski Posted January 7, 2006 Members Share Posted January 7, 2006 John {censored}ing Bonham. Now lock this stupid thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 7, 2006 Members Share Posted January 7, 2006 Well, Bonham WOULD be my first call... but I'm figuring it would be WAY too expensive, him being dead and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted January 8, 2006 Members Share Posted January 8, 2006 Another good drummer on a session today- loud, consistant and deep pocket (and just a pup of 18 years, too!). No question, it's the way to go with rock- type music. Dittos on Bonham... For current drumming I like Taylor from the Foo Fighters. LOUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted January 8, 2006 Members Share Posted January 8, 2006 You know how tube amps don't quite give it up until they're played at a certain volume? Drums are the same way, but more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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