Members sventvkg Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yeah, but... I'm starting to see a slightly different attitude in our high schoolers. Because a lot of them are seeing their parents or relatives get downsized out of jobs. They're starting to realize that, uh-oh, they might not GET a job right out of college. And the kids getting out of college are going uh-oh, I can't find a job. So for the kids who have good heads on their shoulders, I think there's an awareness that's starting to happen. I work directly with the schools and I do talk to teachers and students. The reason some kids don't know the basics... it's complicated. Parents who came up through the boring US Education system realize that half the crap they learned is totally irrelevant to everyday life, so they don't support it like their parents did. Students are going home and plugging into the Internet and all the modern technology we have, but at school they're still taught as if it were 1957, ie teacher lecturing at blackboard. We need great teachers and we don't have all that many. We need much more technology, we need stronger materials. A very simple example of this can be seen with using "Band of Brothers" as the curriculum for a class on World War 2. I've seen it done. They get to the disc where they discover the concentration camps and there's not a dry eye in the entire room. I promise you those kids can tell you who won World War 2. Our curriculum is a mess because we teach what is called "mile wide inch deep." This is why countries like Finland kick our ass. They do not teach as much content as us, but what they teach, they teach more in depth. So in some ways the problem is the opposite of what you said. We teach in some cases so much stuff that none of it sticks. And I'm droning on and on so I'll stop now. I went to HS and college in Palm Beach County and my nephews are there now barely making it through school. They are practically illiterate compared to my sister and I and it's because of the FCAT bull{censored}. Teaching to pass a test instead of teaching to learn. It's astounding to realize how far behind us my 12th grade nephew is compared to where we were. seriously man. I can't think of anything that's gotten better in this country. It's ALL gone to {censored}. I'm glad these kids are getting smart and realizing that they are {censored}ed! Maybe this generation will finally stand up and say no more!! Maybe THEY will actually change things where the boomers and We(Gen X) Failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 We'll have to agree to disagree, because I can promise you that we would have better teachers if we doubled the salary. The competition would be steep. As it is we are hiring teachers who didn't go to college for education because we can't find qualified candidates. We get a vacancy and we have no applicants. It's no difference than anything else - the more salary you offer, the better the applicants will be. There's no competition because no one wants to teach. But the system IS broken and I blame the system, too. It's a complicated problem. I guess we'll have to disagree. This prolly ain't the place to discuss this stuff anyway. You're one o' my favorite guys here, so we should just stick to stuff we have in common. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 1. Get a church job (3 services a week @ $100/service) = $15,6002. Start a teaching studio (12 students @ $50/lesson) = $31,2003. Play background music once a month (@ $250/gig) = $3,0004. Play in a band twice a month (@ $50/gig) = $1,200Comments? .... and you actually believe this has anything to do with music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 15, 2011 We'll have to agree to disagree, because I can promise you that we would have better teachers if we doubled the salary. The competition would be steep. As it is we are hiring teachers who didn't go to college for education because we can't find qualified candidates. We get a vacancy and we have no applicants. It's no difference than anything else - the more salary you offer, the better the applicants will be. There's no competition because no one wants to teach. But the system IS broken and I blame the system, too. It's a complicated problem. I wonder, though, if paying more is the real answer to getting better teachers? I come from a long line of teachers...my mother had a Master's Degree...and I made more $ than she did before I had my bachelor's degree. Will money attract better teachers? No, because being a teacher is generally not about the money, it is about a commitment. I taught for a while, post graduate night school, and it opened my eyes to several things...one, about me, was when the head of the department was convinced that I was probably the best teacher he had on staff, and wanted me full time, and I asked if they could match my outside salary (I liked teaching, but I liked earning more than my age too), so I was apparently not that deeply committed. The other was when, at one point, I had attempted to get an emergecy teaching credential for the public schools, who were in a crisis, and needed high school teachers desperately in a number of disciplines...despite the fact that they told me I had scored off the chart on all the exams (sciences, mathematics, languages, arts) they felt that my lack of a specific degree in any one discipline I applied to teach meant I was not qualified... WTF? That told me they were so tied into their pigeonhole approach to education that they failed to grasp the idea that some people were able to be competent in several areas...utter nonsense. So, yes, the system is not only broken, that 'brokeness' is ingrained into the entire system. Paying more is only a piece of the puzzle...and not the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Will money attract better teachers? No, because being a teacher is generally not about the money, it is about a commitment. Teacher is all money, and the best day is the 25th, when the salary in on the account. Believe me, I work until 1982 as professor at the university, composition, harmony and orchestration/instrumentation. Commitment, or better the high level of knowledge transferred is naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2011 Sorry, but considering how poorly teachers are paid in this country (in some states, just above the poverty level)...considering the level of education, plus student teaching, plus in-service time, on-going ed, nights for teacher conferences, etc., the average American teacher couldn't be in it for the money, because there isn't any. I don't know about Europe, but here, it is about the commitment and caring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 I guess we'll have to disagree. This prolly ain't the place to discuss this stuff anyway. You're one o' my favorite guys here, so we should just stick to stuff we have in common. Deal? Absolutely. Deal. This forum shouldn't be about religion, politics, or educational reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 So let's get back on topic. CAN you make 50 grand a year as a musician? Probably not. Next topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Triny D Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 In my experience larger churches can and do pay well for musicians that add value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Sorry, but considering how poorly teachers are paid in this country (in some states, just above the poverty level)...considering the level of education, plus student teaching, plus in-service time, on-going ed, nights for teacher conferences, etc., the average American teacher couldn't be in it for the money, because there isn't any. I don't know about Europe, but here, it is about the commitment and caring... Secondary teacher about $100 per 40 minute lesson university level $160- $250 per 40 minute lesson Kindergarten level new, the teacher must have a University degree,They demanded better payment,so we voted that they must have a better education.or she/he doesn't get the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Secondary teacher about $1000 per 40 minute lessonuniversity level $160- $250 per 40 minute lessonKindergarten level new, the teacher must have a University degree,They demanded better payment,so we voted that they must have a better education.or she/he doesn't get the job My wife teaches in Washington State, where you are required to have a master's degree. She also is National Board Certified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2011 Secondary teacher about $1000 per 40 minute lessonuniversity level $160- $250 per 40 minute lessonKindergarten level new, the teacher must have a University degree,They demanded better payment,so we voted that they must have a better education.or she/he doesn't get the jobby secondary, I assume you mean at the Graduate Level (Masters/PhD), correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 by secondary, I assume you mean at the Graduate Level (Masters/PhD), correct? Secondary teacher, here 6th to 9th degree, must all have a master/PhH for all school subject. Sorry, that is $100 per 40 minute lesson, not $1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 17, 2011 Dammit...for the original sum, I would go back and finish my masters...(where did I leave that damned thesis...? ) but for $100, meh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well I make between 40k and 75k per year doing as much music related stuff I can. And um, the 75k is rare....there are good years and not so good years. I teach 2 classes with about 13 in each class and have a private teaching roster of about 50 students. I play about 10 to 15 gigs per month (coverbands and original bands), sell cd's at the original, write articles for guitar and music related publications, I do sales writing for music retail. I also write, produce, record, and sell buy out music for post houses, and I get some mailbox money from music I have sold in the past and some writing I have done in the past (although I don't know what I'm gonna do with my last BMI check for $18 LOL). I also do sales/performance work for various music manufacturers at Namm shows. And although I recently lost my lease, for the last 10 years I have owned a studio and sold time and did engineering of local bands and artists. I also do the occasional studio gig when I get the call, and sub for a few friends with touring artist gigs. Bottom line, ya gotta do a LOT of different things, and be really good at ALL of them, to make a decent living out of the spotlight. I said it somewhere else round these parts before, but if I was as good at industrial flooring engineering management as I am at what I do, I'd be doing in the healthy 6 figures with some nice benefits, spiffs, and insurance. But alas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Damn, I had no idea! You ARE the guy I'm talking about when I've said that you CAN make a living in the music biz but you have to be willing to do a lot of different things. What I want to know is, when do you sleep? Good God, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Damn, I had no idea! You ARE the guy I'm talking about when I've said that you CAN make a living in the music biz but you have to be willing to do a lot of different things. What I want to know is, when do you sleep? Good God, man! Well, I don't do ALL that {censored} ALL the time. Last year I only did 2 buyout projects (sold them both), whereas in '04 I did 9 and sold 8! In '04 I didn't do ANY writing for music sales stuff, and have done TONS recently. Hell, back in the late 90's, I was driving to Nashville and spent the day doing sessions 3 days a week. Last year I only did 5 or 6 Nashville sessions total. I have stayed steady with teaching tho'....with a few ups and downs, I have held a steady 40 to 50 students for the past 8 or 10 years. Weird hours, but I have long weeks and normal weeks, just like everybody else. In November and december of last year, I was putting in 65 hour weeks, but hardly 40 per week in January....gotta make hay when the sun shines, baby! The norm is 45 to 50 like everybody else..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 And that's the thing for me: I didn't become a guitarist and songwriter to be a studio engineer or a guitar teacher or any of that other stuff. I'd rather build something for 8 hours, earn a couple hundred bucks a day doing it and go home and play. There's nothing wrong with any of that, it just isn't for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 ah!, It is then , a world of individuals ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimmysux Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Just charge 50,000 a gig. Then you can take the rest of the year off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikedavid00 Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 We'll have to agree to disagree, because I can promise you that we would have better teachers if we doubled the salary. LOL!!! Spoken like a true teacher. If you doubled their salary, they would just ask for more and more time off and more vacation, and more benefits than they already get. Teachers work part time. Anyone who is around teachers know this. Teachers are the most spoiled, pampered, civil servants in the USA today and you think doubling their salaries is going to fix the problems. It is comedy. It really is. I don't believe in public education anyhow. There should only be private schools and gov't payment if someone cannot afford it - same way daycare works. That would finally break apart the unions and hire people who are actually GOOD at teaching, rather than people who are coddled into teaching for the perks and benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikedavid00 Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Sorry, but considering how poorly teachers are paid in this country (in some states, just above the poverty level)...considering the level of education, plus student teaching, plus in-service time, on-going ed, nights for teacher conferences, etc., the average American teacher couldn't be in it for the money, because there isn't any. I don't know about Europe, but here, it is about the commitment and caring... Umm.. They... spend... 3... hours... a ... day.. with.. the.... kids.. They barely work. The 3 reasons to be a teacher is June, Junly, And August. That's the reality. Teachers are lazy civil servants who are allergic to work and are coddled by the state (tax payer) to live a lavish life with an unbelievable retirement from working essentially part time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ornjbird Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Home schooled eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 LOL!!! Spoken like a true teacher. If you doubled their salary, they would just ask for more and more time off and more vacation, and more benefits than they already get. Teachers work part time. Anyone who is around teachers know this. Teachers are the most spoiled, pampered, civil servants in the USA today and you think doubling their salaries is going to fix the problems. It is comedy. It really is. I don't believe in public education anyhow. There should only be private schools and gov't payment if someone cannot afford it - same way daycare works. That would finally break apart the unions and hire people who are actually GOOD at teaching, rather than people who are coddled into teaching for the perks and benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Every year, research indicates that American kids are getting poorer and less healthy than those in other countries, and I would suggest that these two factors are at the center of the low educational achievement scores we now see. One of the metrics used to describe less developed countries is the infant mortality rate. We're now 33rd, behind such economic powerhouses such as Slovenia, Cuba and Cyprus. The level of poverty in the U.S. is on a par with Mexico, Kazahkstan, Slovenia and Bulgaria. And we only score that high because the govt. cooks the books, saying only 12% of the US population is below the poverty line. I would suggest the working poor in this country, having less free health care, day care and nutrition programs than those countries mentioned at the same level, are in much worse shape. I agree that there are plenty of unqualified teachers,so let's get rid of tenure and seniority rules. (Hey -great idea for unqualified cops, air traffic controllers, oil rig and meat inspectors, too.) And paying teachers better than sanitation workers would attract a better talent pool. As a teacher's spouse, I can tell you the good ones put in at least a half hour of work for each class hour, resulting in 50+ hr. work weeks. And while they generally get 10 weeks off each summer, they don't earn anywhere near 80% of what other professionals with master's degrees earn. Calling teachers' work "part-time" is as ridiculous as calling firefighters part-time, since they only work 2 days a week. BTW - Firefighters and cops are more unionized, have much better benefits, tighter seniority rules and generally have to commit a felony on the job to get fired for bad performance.Educating our kids --especially the poor ones, is an important goal for the whole country, just like protecting us from fire and crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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