Members richardmac Posted March 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 You know, I could never figure out why people would rob a convenience store for, say, $200. If you're going to point a gun at someone, my thought is that there ought to be a large amount of money involved. You get the same prison sentence whether you steal $200 or $250,000. Might as well go for the gold. The actual reason that people rob convenience stores is that they are really, really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SunRaFan Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 This seems somewhat reasonable as a rough idea. The numbers are obviously going to vary based on region and skill of the musician. The one thing that is missing that I would think most people would try to add is some amount of $$$ from original recordings or songwriting. If a musician isn't trying to either do session work or release there own material, I'd really wonder why they decided to become a professional musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 This seems somewhat reasonable as a rough idea. The numbers are obviously going to vary based on region and skill of the musician.The one thing that is missing that I would think most people would try to add is some amount of $$$ from original recordings or songwriting. If a musician isn't trying to either do session work or release there own material, I'd really wonder why they decided to become a professional musician. Some people just really enjoy playing their instrument and they have no desire to write. I don't really get it either but I've met tons of musicians in my life who aren't songwriters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 12, 2011 You know, I could never figure out why people would rob a convenience store for, say, $200. If you're going to point a gun at someone, my thought is that there ought to be a large amount of money involved. You get the same prison sentence whether you steal $200 or $250,000. Might as well go for the gold. The actual reason that people rob convenience stores is that they are really, really stupid. no, robbing a liquor store for $200 is 'petty larceny', and will get you a year or two (or less, depending on the judge), and will be a local/state violation. Stealing over $2500 (in some states less, some more), will get you a grand larceny count, and you will do more time, usually in a state pen...but bank robbery is a federal offense, and you will get slammed hard even if you only net $200 from the teller's drawer. Career criminals know this, so they are careful about the crimes they are willing to pull off...and which is why I did not purue a life of crime..although the way I play is a crime...against humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 no, robbing a liquor store for $200 is 'petty larceny', and will get you a year or two (or less, depending on the judge), and will be a local/state violation. Stealing over $2500 (in some states less, some more), will get you a grand larceny count, and you will do more time, usually in a state pen...but bank robbery is a federal offense, and you will get slammed hard even if you only net $200 from the teller's drawer. Career criminals know this, so they are careful about the crimes they are willing to pull off...and which is why I did not purue a life of crime..although the way I play is a crime...against humanity Not here in Florida - if you pull a gun on someone, it's 10 years in the big house regardless of how much money is involved. If you fire the gun at someone, it's 20 years, and if you kill them, it's life. I don't know about parole, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 Not here in Florida - if you pull a gun on someone, it's 10 years in the big house regardless of how much money is involved. If you fire the gun at someone, it's 20 years, and if you kill them, it's life.I don't know about parole, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invader.CC Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 I would say it's more dreaming and wishful thinking. No one is easily going to land a church gig as described. The bands in churches i've seen have always, always been donated time so I would throw that out the window.Starting a studio for teaching. Where is someone going to get a room environment for 12 students and then find these students. The only place I've seen this is at the largest local music stores and community colleges that offer night lessons. They are ALWAYS filled those teaching positions. Good luck to anyone trying to get 12 students on their own, throughout the year as viable income. You will SERIOUSLY need luck on that one.Play background music. GOOD LUCK landing this gig for $250 *reliably* once a month.The only thing that wasn't dreaming was $50 twice a month for a gig. That's the only legitimate, down to earth thing that someone should expect as income. 12 Students is nothing i only teach part time 5 months a year and i have 23 ..I only charge $22 an hour or $14 a half hour After re reading this post i see that it comes off some what boastful..That is not the way i wanted it to be just a poor choice of wording.. When i said 12 students is nothing i'm speaking comparatively with others that i know that work full time as guitar instructors many do it as a full time job and can fill up a 8 hour day 5 days a week schedule with students.. I have taken this was the norm maybe it isn't the same everywhere as it is here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikedavid00 Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 12 Students is nothing i only teach part time 5 months a year and i have 23 ..I only charge $22 an hour or $14 a half hour Really that's a lot! I wonder why the rest on the forum here aren't doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 Really that's a lot! I wonder why the rest on the forum here aren't doing this. I know why I'm not. 1) teaching is a gift. Some have it, some don't. I don't. I cannot explain to people how I do what I do. I've tried teaching and failed miserably. 2) everyone and their dog who can play a guitar is giving lessons right now to make up for lost income in this bad economy. Like every other aspect of the music business that is flooded with too many providers and not enough customers, lessons are going for as little as 10 dollars per hour around here. I saw an ad for one guy offering the first three lessons free. And maybe you missed this part of his post: Good luck to anyone trying to get 12 students on their own, throughout the year as viable income. You will SERIOUSLY need luck on that one. I'm not sure why you don't seem to grasp the fact that what works for one person doesn't work for all. My calendar is full for the next three months because I'm playing with 3 (sometimes 4) bands and doing a duo and a solo. I would never tell anyone that this is how you have to do it. It's how I have to do it, nothing more. The music biz has no formula, no instruction book, and even the old 'tried and true' methods are out the window. It's no longer a case of "if you do A, B and C, you'll get D". It's a different time for this business right now, and no one can predict what will happen or how to get there if they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 You know, I could never figure out why people would rob a convenience store for, say, $200. If you're going to point a gun at someone, my thought is that there ought to be a large amount of money involved. You get the same prison sentence whether you steal $200 or $250,000. Might as well go for the gold. The actual reason that people rob convenience stores is that they are really, really stupid. Here, as more you steal, as more respect you earn. I don't know how that is in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 12, 2011 Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 Killing the victim, not more then 15 years in a nice jail, better service then the best 5 star hotel in NYC, and you get payed a salary in jail here, or course only when you work in the manufacturing. One guy recently killed 15 in one go, he got 14 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2011 Really that's a lot! I wonder why the rest on the forum here aren't doing this. Because I'd make less money than I'm making now and I'd hate it. Other than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GalacticDeath Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 How about recording/producing, composing, arranging, graphic designing. I think those would be good ways of making a little extra money. It's not playing but it's still related to the music business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 How about recording/producing, composing, arranging, graphic designing. I think those would be good ways of making a little extra money. It's not playing but it's still related to the music business. Once there was a man who worked for the circus. Day in and day out, his job was to follow the elephants around with a shovel and a cart and remove their copious amounts of elephant dung they would deposit in their cages and in the main tent rings. One day, after a particularly rough day, he sighed, "God, I hate my job!" A passing circus goer overheard him, and said "Well, if you hate it so much, why don't you quit?" And the man stood up straight, grabbed his shovel and said "What?! And leave show business?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dingoist Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 A fellow round here who has won a few awards teaches lunchtime group lessons at my work. He has a beginner hour one day, and a intermediate class the next. I don't believe there is a room rental fee -- it's provided by work, and it's $100 per person for 8 weeks. He pulls in 10-15 per group lesson, and will also rent guitars if needed (has a deal with a local store for rentals). Assuming $50 per person per month with 20 people ... that $1,000/month for two lunchtime sessions per week. So that's only $12,000 per year but do that at other businesses or at least a second one, along with guitar rentals for this, and then pull in individual lessons @ $20/half hour that come from it and it starts becoming viable. Not glamorous or secure, but viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yeah, but, you know, at what point do you not just get your Masters or Doctorate and teach at a University? Better pay, better benefits, more security, same concept - teaching. I don't get it. In the past I also would have included teaching music in K-12, but the way things are going in this country we'll probably be getting rid of all of those people along with the Art teachers. The "grownups" who run this country better wake the hell up - School already sucks and we're making it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yeah, but, you know, at what point do you not just get your Masters or Doctorate and teach at a University? Better pay, better benefits, more security, same concept - teaching. I don't get it. In the past I also would have included teaching music in K-12, but the way things are going in this country we'll probably be getting rid of all of those people along with the Art teachers. The "grownups" who run this country better wake the hell up - School already sucks and we're making it worse. I suppose it's a different discussion, but have a hard time feeling bad about cutting art and music programs when more than half the HS grads can't read at a 4th grade level, can't do simple math, can't tell the difference between there/their/they're, your/you're or too/to, can't find Brazil or Korea on a map and don't know who fought in World War II, let alone won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 I suppose it's a different discussion, but have a hard time feeling bad about cutting art and music programs when more than half the HS grads can't read at a 4th grade level, can't do simple math, can't tell the difference between there/their/they're, your/you're or too/to, can't find Brazil or Korea on a map and don't know who fought in World War II, let alone won it. Blue, you're the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 14, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 14, 2011 Altough I do agree that arts should take a back seat tothe basics of education, they still need to be on the bus...and honestly, I found that the fault that kids don't know the basic things we learned is because the system itself was 'tinkered' to death during the last few decades in the name of 'relevance and balance'...in other words, we allowed the government to 'dumb down' the greatest asset we had going in this country. Plus, look at the general population under twentyfive today...the 'entitlement generation'...they will get into a college (and even graduate!) and STILL not know what the difference is between baroque and classical music, what an erg is, how many square feet are in a square yard or where Dahomey was. (he was from mah hood, yo!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steeltropics1 Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 I know several fellow musicians who make a good living teaching piano and gtr. This is their primary income. They also do a few gigs here and there. It can be tough for them to reschedule around gigs and taking time off to travel can be tough as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 I suppose it's a different discussion, but have a hard time feeling bad about cutting art and music programs when more than half the HS grads can't read at a 4th grade level, can't do simple math, can't tell the difference between there/their/they're, your/you're or too/to, can't find Brazil or Korea on a map and don't know who fought in World War II, let alone won it. Only in inner city Miami and places like that. Out in the suburbs you're off the mark, but you know that. I've spent 16 years in public education and I call tell you exactly what's wrong, and exactly how to fix it. And a ton of experts would agree with me. But we will never, never, ever do what's necessary and needed because there's too much bureaucracy and it would require us to spend 4 times on education that we do right now. But there are a whole lot of kids who come to school and hate it, and the one highlight of their day is music/art/sports/etc. Take that away and see what happens. You won't see history scores improve... you'll see more kids skipping school. Education IS messed up in America, but the solution isn't to spend LESS money on it - that's only going to break it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 Altough I do agree that arts should take a back seat tothe basics of education, they still need to be on the bus...and honestly, I found that the fault that kids don't know the basic things we learned is because the system itself was 'tinkered' to death during the last few decades in the name of 'relevance and balance'...in other words, we allowed the government to 'dumb down' the greatest asset we had going in this country. Plus, look at the general population under twentyfive today...the 'entitlement generation'...they will get into a college (and even graduate!) and STILL not know what the difference is between baroque and classical music, what an erg is, how many square feet are in a square yard or where Dahomey was. (he was from mah hood, yo!)... Yeah, but... I'm starting to see a slightly different attitude in our high schoolers. Because a lot of them are seeing their parents or relatives get downsized out of jobs. They're starting to realize that, uh-oh, they might not GET a job right out of college. And the kids getting out of college are going uh-oh, I can't find a job. So for the kids who have good heads on their shoulders, I think there's an awareness that's starting to happen. I work directly with the schools and I do talk to teachers and students. The reason some kids don't know the basics... it's complicated. Parents who came up through the boring US Education system realize that half the crap they learned is totally irrelevant to everyday life, so they don't support it like their parents did. Students are going home and plugging into the Internet and all the modern technology we have, but at school they're still taught as if it were 1957, ie teacher lecturing at blackboard. We need great teachers and we don't have all that many. We need much more technology, we need stronger materials. A very simple example of this can be seen with using "Band of Brothers" as the curriculum for a class on World War 2. I've seen it done. They get to the disc where they discover the concentration camps and there's not a dry eye in the entire room. I promise you those kids can tell you who won World War 2. Our curriculum is a mess because we teach what is called "mile wide inch deep." This is why countries like Finland kick our ass. They do not teach as much content as us, but what they teach, they teach more in depth. So in some ways the problem is the opposite of what you said. We teach in some cases so much stuff that none of it sticks. And I'm droning on and on so I'll stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Only in inner city Miami and places like that. Out in the suburbs you're off the mark, but you know that. I've spent 16 years in public education and I call tell you exactly what's wrong, and exactly how to fix it. And a ton of experts would agree with me. But we will never, never, ever do what's necessary and needed because there's too much bureaucracy and it would require us to spend 4 times on education that we do right now. But there are a whole lot of kids who come to school and hate it, and the one highlight of their day is music/art/sports/etc. Take that away and see what happens. You won't see history scores improve... you'll see more kids skipping school. Education IS messed up in America, but the solution isn't to spend LESS money on it - that's only going to break it worse. Well, the solution isn't more money, either, since we've been spending it in near record amounts and getting less for it. I live in a small city, not urban by any stretch, and the output of schools here is atrocious. My wife, a teacher for 29 years, agrees. I don't blame teachers, but I do blame the system. We put our own kids in private school, at our own expense, and still paid for public school as well. When they transferred over to high school, were were 1-3 years ahead of public school, depending on the subject. All of them can spell, do math and read well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 We'll have to agree to disagree, because I can promise you that we would have better teachers if we doubled the salary. The competition would be steep. As it is we are hiring teachers who didn't go to college for education because we can't find qualified candidates. We get a vacancy and we have no applicants. It's no difference than anything else - the more salary you offer, the better the applicants will be. There's no competition because no one wants to teach. But the system IS broken and I blame the system, too. It's a complicated problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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