If combos get the job done then why do they make 120w, 150w, and 200w tube amp heads?

[Alchemist]

different gear serves a different purpose,

 

amps with large power sections have huge head room, the fender twin has 85-115 watts depending on which era... BECAUSE IT HAS TO STAY CLEAN...

 

a lot of modern high gain amps use a very tight preamp gain structure, and a very clean power section, power amp distortion introduces sag, you want that high gain to stay tight, that high wattage and huge transformers give you a very clear and big low end.... something you cant get with lower wattage or small speaker enclosures....

 

if you think the only reason people buy those amps is to compensate, you need to stop projecting your insecurity on other people

[I was The Funk]

I use a 15 watt 1x12 combo.

 

I STILL get told by the soundguy to turn down.... At 500 person venues!

 

I like to have my amp right at the point of breakup, and it is loud. When its miced up through a good PA and I hit it with an overdrive pedal I feel like I'm playing a cannon.

[songsforbears]

different gear serves a different purpose, amps with large power sections have huge head room, the fender twin has 85-115 watts depending on which era... BECAUSE IT HAS TO STAY CLEAN... a lot of modern high gain amps use a very tight preamp gain structure, and a very clean power section, power amp distortion introduces sag, you want that high gain to stay tight, that high wattage and huge transformers give you a very clear and big low end.... something you cant get with lower wattage or small speaker enclosures.... if you think the only reason people buy those amps is to compensate, you need to stop projecting your insecurity on other people

 

I don't really consider my 85-watt Twin to be a high-wattage amp because it still breaks up at low volumes. Either way, I don't own it because it's OMGR0X0RZLOUD, I own it because the tone is good at low volumes and high volmes.

 

And people who buy high-wattage amps need to stop projecting their insecurity on other peoples' eardrums.

[(Ë)]

 

marketing to people with small penises

That chick in your avatar, isn't she standing right in front of a full stack? Is that a penis thing too?

 

I wouldn't discount the possibilty that some of these people are simply hard of hearing, and don't quite realize how loud they are to "normal" people's ears. I've been to a number of small club metal shows that were painfully loud -- 15 meters away from the stage. Standing right in front of those speakers several times a week probably guarantees permanent damage to the ears.

[Alchemist]

I don't really consider my 85-watt Twin to be a high-wattage amp because it still breaks up at low volumes. Either way, I don't own it because it's OMGR0X0RZLOUD, I own it because the tone is good at low volumes and high volmes. And people who buy high-wattage amps need to stop projecting their insecurity on other peoples' eardrums.

 

your twin shouldnt break up at low volumes...... (mine wont even begin to break up until I hit 8, and then its not even pleasant because its too loud, I bought the amp for clean head room and use with pedals)

 

there is a big tonal difference, but of course if you look at the makeup of this forum, quite a few own smaller budget combos..... good luck trying to get any of them to admit that there could possibly be an advantage to something much more expensive than what they own....

 

this is of course the home of "my agile is as good as a Gibson LP Standard"

 

for the record, my other two amps are a 5 watt mini stack, and a 22 watt half stack, and I prefer low wattage amps (for tonal reasons... I like 6v6 and el84's...) so I am not defending my choice of amps, but rather common sense that seems to elude people who are stuck only within their immediate realm of experience...

[Ferdinandstrat]

 

As opposed to big Jews.

 

 

Que?

[JoJo68]

Some of you people equating penis to amps are {censored}ing retarded. You name some big name groups who use combos, well they aren't going to be playing many {censored} holes with bad p.a. and monitors. I love Queens of the Stone Age and they get killer tones from combos, but will always play venues with great pa and monitors. My band plays gigs in excellent venues and {censored} holes. Hell the last 2 places we played were nice and could only mic the vocals and had no monitors at all, the high wattage stacks come in handy sometimes and it's great to have the headroom. There was a band I loved at the last gig and the guitarist had a little Vox and an SG and his sound just wasn't cutting it at all.

[curseoftruth]

If you wanna, stick to a combo and have the soundguy butcher your tone. In the clubs and venues in my circles, the soundguy is equipped to "compensate" for multiple stacks cranked to maximum saturation. These clubs are loud, but always sound good. A matter of personal taste and musical style. Metal on a combo?? Doom through 30w?? Some music needs a bigger push.

 

Doom, Metal, and Stoner Rock all need, let me re-state that, REQUIRE, volume and loads of headroom. Especially doom and stoner, the earth must shake under your feet, the audience for that music expects it. It is part of the experience. Its why I play a 100 watt half stack and a 50 watt combo (soon to be pushing another 2x12 to make it a 4x12) together. Sheer power. Is it overkill. Maybe to be mamby pamby new waver or country guy, but in my circles, its what the job requires. The Orange is getting another 2x12 to go with the built in 2x12. THat 50 watt Orange is already louder than my 100 watt Marshall, just nuts.

 

[GibsonQC]

 

Que?

 

 

I don't think he meant any offense by that. In your original post, you said GENTILES (ie: non-Jewish people), but you were referring to GENITALS. He was just being funny...

 

 

Back to topic, read Alchemist's first post to see why anyone would want a high-wattage amp and a 4x12 cab. Trust me, I played with SS 2x12 combo for years, then moved up to a 1x12 tube combo (Mesa DC-2, which I still have), and now I have a Carvin X60B and a 4x12. The closed back 4x12 cab really gives a lot of "punch" you can't get from a combo, even at low volumes. It's actually possible that I keep my head/cab *softer* during rehearsal than I did with the 1x12 simply because it has a fuller sound.

 

Power-wise, either one of the aforementioned amps can do the job. I never had to put my 1x12 22w tube combo past 2.5.

[Mawr]

In other words, I think you're ill-informed and illogical. I didn't even bother getting started on the statement itself, because... . But good response. Very adult.

 

You responded, he wins.

[zatoichi]

penis enlargement

[Alchemist]

penis enlargement

 

I'm sure you'll get a bigger amp some day

[zatoichi]

 

This is really the long and the short of it. Because people will buy them, even though 80 percent of the people who buy them don't really need them.

 

Indeed: a friend of mine is in love with his new purchase of a marshall stack (100w). He lives in a real small house w/ wife & kid, and when he cranks up EVERYONE within a quarter-mile complains. He's not in (never been in) a band & only playing a couple years (plays some stuff better than I do, though). The sweet, sweet tone of my NOSsified Valve Special did nothing for him whatever...I actually *DO* figure there's some physiological/endocrine reaction to sound pressure levels that these rigs pump out.

[zatoichi]

I'm sure you'll get a bigger amp some day

was not referring to MY penis, thank you - I'm quite satisfied with my amp.

[Nananine]

If I had to choose between dragging around a, what, 70 pound Vox AC30 or a Vox AC30 head with a 45 pound 2x12 cabinet, I'd go the latter.

[inkblot]

Is it really hard to believe that a 100W head and 4x12 don't sound the same as a 20 watt combo? Sure, alot of people play rigs that are just unnecessarily large. That doesn't mean that everyone playing a rig with more than 30W and 2 speakers is just trying to look cool.

 

Besides, excess is part of the rock and roll image/lifestyle. What rocker doesn't want to look cool on stage? Is Slash's hat compensating for a small dick? EVH's shirtlessness?

[curseoftruth]

As stated by Joey, some places in our neck of the woods just have PA for the vocals. The drums, bass and guitars have to run on their own. A 30 watt 1x12 combo does not cut it. I've seen it happen before, not enough headroom. You might have good tone if your standing in front of it but if you are off to the side of it, you won't hear the guitar at all. Probably all drums with vocals out front.

 

And I read back a few posts, get a better sound guy. Right. 90% of the local clubs have terrible sound guys that bands have zero control over. Most of the clubs also have terrible acoustics, they are basically big tin sheds where the sound is going to suck. The days of the bad ass rock club are pretty well over, they just don't exist. It really is underground for the most part anymore, especially with certain types of music.

 

And most clubs I've played, the sound guy can't get the guitar mix right in the PA, sound guys are usually kids who don't know what they are doing.

[songsforbears]

 

your twin shouldnt break up at low volumes...... (mine wont even begin to break up until I hit 8, and then its not even pleasant because its too loud, I bought the amp for clean head room and use with pedals) there is a big tonal difference, but of course if you look at the makeup of this forum, quite a few own smaller budget combos..... good luck trying to get any of them to admit that there could possibly be an advantage to something much more expensive than what they own.... this is of course the home of "my agile is as good as a Gibson LP Standard" for the record, my other two amps are a 5 watt mini stack, and a 22 watt half stack, and I prefer low wattage amps (for tonal reasons... I like 6v6 and el84's...) so I am not defending my choice of amps, but rather common sense that seems to elude people who are stuck only within their immediate realm of experience...

 

 

Change the tubes for some JJ tubes that are tested as high gain from Eurotubes. That'll get you great breakup from a Twin. Also, setting your pickup height closer to the strings always freaks the amp out in beautiful ways.

 

---

 

Why yes, I don't have experience with 200-watt amps. Why? Because I don't play in stadiums. If you aren't playing in stadiums, you don't need that. Simple.

 

---

 

And my Blackheart does, in fact, get tone that's similar to the tone that $1,000 boutique amps get. I don't buy stuff without playing it, I find this out by actually doing A/B tests on gear. I don't buy low-priced gear if it doesn't get tone that's as good or better as more expensive stuff. Why the hell would I have sold my $1,400 Telecaster and $1,600 Strat and stuck with a $200 Danelectro if it didn't sound and play better? Why would I sell my brand new, nice-looking, and nice-sounding $1,350 '59 Bassman LTD to buy a $800 used '65 Twin Reverb Amp? Because the Twin has better tone and more features for less money. I'm not some cheap idiot for you to walk on because you've got expensive gear. I've been there, I've thought my tone was better because I had the top-of-the-line stuff. Then I got real. I've discovered that more tone doesn't have to mean more money. And I haven't tried one of those Agile guitars, but I believe the people who say they sound just as good as Gibson guitars, because I'm aware and many other people are aware that tone has nothing to do with price or the name on the headstock.

 

Sorry for the mostly off-topic rant.

[Alchemist]

 

was not referring to MY penis, thank you - I'm quite satisfied with my amp.

 

 

 

if you honestly think that the reason people get bigger amps is because of the "size of their penis", you need to start learning more about gear, and worrying less about peoples penises.....

[SteinbergerHack]

 

Clean is one thing, but if you want exacting, prestine clean tones live, why not mic and have the sound system push your volume?

 

 

Because I want to be able to hear my guitar properly in the mix ON STAGE! I have NO sympathy for soundmen who want me to trash the stage mix just to make their job easier. Yes, a good sound system with a good operator can make the front-of-house sound OK with a smaller amp, but NO monitor system that I have EVER used (and this ranges from 50-seat clubs to 1,500-seat auditoriums to 40,000-person arenas) can handle running all of the instruments without wrecking the vocal mix. [OK, maybe one or two of the top-end touring rigs could do it, but this is the exception, not the rule. To use monitors for a full mix ABSOLUTELY requires a separate monitor board and operator LOCATED AT THE STAGE. Any sound man who tells you he can manage a full-band monitor mix from the FOH console is either lying or deluding himself.]

 

Bottom line: You need the volume to keep up with the drums on-stage. If the band and the soundman both know what they are doing, the mix 20 feet from the stage (where you mostly hear stage volume) should sound IDENTICAL to the mix 120 feet back (where you ONLY hear the PA) - with the obvious exception of the vocals. If this is not the case, either the band has no sense of mix or the soundman is screwing up the natural balance of the band.

 

If the guitars/bass are so low that the drums overpower them on stage, the guitars need to turn up and the soundman needs to just deal with it.

Conversely, if the guitars are drowning out the drums, the guitars need to turn down and get over it - or use a smaller rig.

[Alchemist]

Why yes, I don't have experience with 200-watt amps. Why? Because I don't play in stadiums. If you aren't playing in stadiums, you don't need that. Simple. ---

 

umm a stadium gig WILL have a good PA...... 200 watt amps arent made for stadium gigs, they are made for clean clear headroom....

 

thats why solidstate amps are such high wattage, because solidstate power amp distortion sounds pretty bad, and so does power tube distortion when using an amp designed for tight preamp gain with no power tube distortion.... its basically like using the amps power section as a separate power amp, you want it clean!

 

the rest of this comment is in general, not in reference to the quote....

 

its about getting the right tool for the right job, if you want to play blues with a hint of grit, this is obviously not the amp for the job, but not everyone plays that, hard rock and metal sounds great through a big amp (at any volume, doesnt have to be cranked).... it sounds tighter, more focused, and fuller.... and thats what the amps are designed to do.....

 

its not a dick measuring contest, its not anything else, its about the right tool for the job...... I dont get why thats so hard to grasp for so many people

[AndersonTech]

I'd be hesitant to respond to the "penis size" comments because those folks probably have the data to back up their findings.

[dcindc]

[Ferdinandstrat]

 

I don't think he meant any offense by that. In your original post, you said GENTILES (ie: non-Jewish people), but you were referring to GENITALS. He was just being funny... Back to topic, read Alchemist's first post to see why anyone would want a high-wattage amp and a 4x12 cab. Trust me, I played with SS 2x12 combo for years, then moved up to a 1x12 tube combo (Mesa DC-2, which I still have), and now I have a Carvin X60B and a 4x12. The closed back 4x12 cab really gives a lot of "punch" you can't get from a combo, even at low volumes. It's actually possible that I keep my head/cab *softer* during rehearsal than I did with the 1x12 simply because it has a fuller sound. Power-wise, either one of the aforementioned amps can do the job. I never had to put my 1x12 22w tube combo past 2.5.

 

 

 

I still dont get it.

[Exocaster]

Alchemist is right. It's not compensating or image, not for serious musicians, anyway. It's a tone thing, and current amp trends reflect that. There's a profusion of lower wattage combos and heads now geared toward clean to mid-gain overdrive tones, while the high gainers aimed at the metal crowd are almost all 100+ watts, with 120 or 150 watt heads becoming increasingly common.

 

Lower wattage just isn't all that great for modern high gain tones. As an example, from personal experience- I used to own a Mesa Mark IV. At home, I'd run it in Class A mode with 2 EL34s, Pentode and Tweed Power. Set up like that, it's running at about 15 watts, IIRC. Glorious lead tones. Just beautiful. I tried using it set up like that at practice with a metal band I was in at the time. My rhythm tones were a mushy, muddy mess, so back to Simul-Class and Full Power (85 watts) it went. Problem solved. Serious power amp breakup is not conducive to modern high gain tones.

 

Modern high gain amps are running four or more big-bottle tubes to keep their power sections tight and clean at gigging volume for a loud band. And let's not kid ourselves their either- yes, smart bands play at the volume of the drummer. I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. But do you really think heavy rock and metal styles are gonna sound all that great with a lightweight behind the kit?

 

And for what it's worth, I prefer 50 watters and below, even for heavy stuff, but I like a bit more "vintage" of a tone than most, and I don't mind having a bit of power tube grit going on. Makes my tone fatter. But I understand perfectly well what high wattage power sections are for.