generation nothing

[Antman261]

We are the real players. Politics is meant to serve the people. If the people aren't being treated right they should speak out. It's the {censored}ing point of democracy.

[chipmcdonald]

The answer to your question is, "they're too entertained and distracted".

 

That, and there's no draft.

 

The Homeland knows how to manage the Citizens. Karl Rove and the Ruling Elite are to the sheeple what Temple Grandin is to cattle.

 

Ancillary reasons:

 

No one has time to read books anymore;

 

We can get Perfectly Mediocre (but intense) entertainment from a number of places;

 

The media is controlled by the government - there is no clear message;

 

Pop music is totally striated now; there can be no unified message, because there's isn't one commonly accepted for of music anymore.

 

Pop musicians themselves have too many reasons to NOT speak out - it now runs counter to their livelihood, where as in the 60's it only served to increase their success.

 

/ dismayed that no high-profile artist isn't taking a stand and stating plainly and clearly their political stance

// doesn't expect it, because of the above reasons

/// Reznor sort of is doing it, but he's being too obfuscated about it

//// hasn't really been a real political statement in pop music since Ministry did "N.W.O."; before that Midnight Oil' maybe "Peace Sells" by Megadeth

///// lots of weak "we're dipping our toes in infering we might possibly obliquely be making a sort of maybe left-of-center political statement in a sort of off-hand way" doesn't count

[SpaceNorman]

 

We are the real players. Politics is meant to serve the people. If the people aren't being treated right they should speak out. It's the {censored}ing point of democracy.

 

 

No argument from me about that Ant. However, please don't assume that because you've got access to media because of your celebrity as a musician that your opinions speak for a constituency. In a democracy - we ELECT our representives in the political process. Unfortunately, there are too many "artist" turned pswedo-political spokespeople (that's an intentional mis-spelling) clogging up the airways as though they've in some way been empowered to speak on our behalf.

[chipmcdonald]

No, I take all of that back:

 

I forgot about the Dixie Chicks.

 

Hats off to them for sticking their beliefs where their career was. Of course, the skewering they got no doubt sent chills through any other high-profile artist who thought about making a statement...

[Geoff Grace]

Thank God for social commentary in art. What if John Lennon had skipped "Imagine" and stuck with "Silly Love Songs" like his friend Paul? What if George Orwell had written detective stories instead of "1984?"

 

Everyone should be allowed to comment on life -- including artists. What's wrong is blindly accepting the opinion of an artist -- or anyone else -- without thinking for yourself.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[nice keetee]

Thank God for social commentary in art. What if John Lennon had skipped "Imagine" and stuck with "Silly Love Songs" like his friend Paul? What if George Orwell had written detective stories instead of "1984?" Everyone should be allowed to comment on life -- including artists. What's wrong is blindly accepting the opinion of an artist -- or anyone else -- without thinking for yourself. Best, Geoff

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Lots of people afraid to express their opinions so others do it for them. Maybe let others do their THINKING for them too. That's scary...

[SpaceNorman]

 

Thank God for social commentary in art. What if John Lennon had skipped "Imagine" and stuck with "Silly Love Songs" like his friend Paul? What if George Orwell had written detective stories instead of "1984?" Everyone should be allowed to comment on life -- including artists. What's wrong is blindly accepting the opinion of an artist -- or anyone else -- without thinking for yourself. Best, Geoff

 

 

I'm all for social commentary in art. I'm all for folks agreeing (or disagreeing) with what the artist had to say in their art.

 

I'm just not crazy about seeing artists at the heart of media frenzy that is far removed from their art (ala Bono, Sting (in his younger days), etc.). While I don't begrudge them their opinion - I cringe when I see their "art based celebrity" allow them to consume a disporpotional share of the conversational spotlight available for political and social issues. I especially dislike hearing artists speaking as though and/or being afford media access as though they represent somebody/anybody other than themselves.

[elsongs]

[the stranger]

It sounds like your mind is quite well set about an entire generation of people. That must be an incredibly sad place to be.

 

It is sad. I wish I could see evidence to the contrary. I currently work in food service management and kids are what I see. The more I think about it, they may be lost...be they still seem curiously aware. Anyway, culture is in the crapper! I love the vibe of your post, but the reality of the situation seems dire.

[the stranger]

I want to see some young people tearing down constructs and pushing the envelope. There does seem to be a lack of social activism on the part of youth. What we see now is far beyond some nam comparison. This is wholesale debauchery. Protest is dead. This commercialized activism with an agenda and a profit motive isn't it. Maybe they just sold out the "free speech zones". "Dude, I had front row tickets at last night's protest! Molly Hatchet opened!"

[Antman261]

Me and some mates are getting something together, I don't want to elaborate, but I don't think you should lose ALL hope Alphajerk.

[Rabid]

 

there is a difference between celebrity and true artists... true artists are the commentators of society in some fashion. celebrities are merely teh show pony's for crass commercialism. sadly, the music industry right now in the mainstream is the latter.

 

 

I guess Beethoven, Bach and a host of other classical composer are not true artists by this definition.

[uncle psychosis]

thast my new tag for the new 20 somethings and where the {censored} are they? in the 60's it was 20 yo providiing the sountrack to teh protest of the {censored}ed up situations in amerika.

 

And what exactly did they achieve? We still ended up with Reagan, and with Thatcher, and with Nixon, and with Bush one and two. Money makes the world go round, not 24 year old kids with guitars.

 

FWIW, I love music with a "message"---The Clash, Asian Dub Foundation, Rage Against the Machine, Public Enemy, just to name a few. I just don't think that they can serve much purpose other than publicising a cause or a belief.

 

Sam

[Rabid]

Reflecting back, hasn't every generation said the same thing? There have always been people in the older generation accusing the younger generation of not doing anything worthwhile. Ask negative people from each generation. The big accomplishment of the

[Magpel]

Music is a nice adjunct to a zeitgeist, but people who want to be politically effectual are also going to focus their energies elsewhere--like on politics, let's say. In my humbop, music never made anything happen, though the people who DO make things happen like music. Rage was a SONY band.

 

I live in a town with a 20-something Green Party mayor and a really happening grassroots political scene. There's plenty of politically-aware folk-hop going down in the bars and coffee houses (most of it not to my liking but whatever).

 

PS. just in the interest of complete honesty, the popular 20-something Green Party mayor who achieved some national fame for performing gay weddings just lost his bid for re-election--to another progressive with a '60s political pedigree...

 

Regarding truly revolutionary music, it will seldom be linked to social revolution because it is too demanding, difficult on its own terms. Revolutions of all stripes have always favored rally-round-the-flag bands....Like U2!!!

[Magpel]

Yeah, a critique of our super-juiced consumer culture by...The Police? U2? Mos Def? har...

 

Bono's got the right idea. Ameliorating suffering is a poitically neutral idea to everyone except the hardcore Eugenecists and Social Darwinists. Other forms of cultural critique are...problematic for people so thoroughly invested in the world's corporate economic order.

 

Also note that Bono is doing the legwork, not just writing anthems to "raise awareness."

[Magpel]

On point, this very famous stanza from W.H. Auden's poem "In Memory of W.B. Yeats"

 

You were silly like us; your gift survived it all:

The parish of rich women, physical decay,

Yourself. Mad Ireland hurt you into poetry.

Now Ireland has her madness and her weather still,

For poetry makes nothing happen: it survives

In the valley of its making where executives

Would never want to tamper, flows on south

From ranches of isolation and the busy griefs,

Raw towns that we believe and die in; it survives,

A way of happening, a mouth.

[Geoff Grace]

And what exactly did they achieve? We still ended up with Reagan, and with Thatcher, and with Nixon, and with Bush one and two. Money makes the world go round, not 24 year old kids with guitars.

 

They achieved a remarkably disproportionate amount for their numbers. The issues that were important to the mostly young protesters who took to the streets daily -- civil rights, the environment, and ending the war in vietnam, for example -- all improved in ways they wouldn't have otherwise. The civil rights legislation of the '60s, the early withdrawal from Vietnam, and the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency almost certainly wouldn't have happened so early, or perhaps at all, without the persistent efforts of the protesters.

 

Two young reporters brought the Nixon administration to its knees and forced the resignation of a sitting president for the only time in US history. From roughly 1960-1975, the youth of America had an impact that was probably unprecedented, the likes of which hasn't been seen since.

 

Music provided much of the soundtrack and inspiration for the protesters. Songs like "We Shall Overcome" and "Give Peace A Chance" were sung by thousands of marchers to bring their message to the public. I wish you could have witnessed the impact "24 year old kids with guitars" had back then.

 

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

 

- Margaret Mead

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[uncle psychosis]

 

Music provided much of the soundtrack and inspiration for the protesters. Songs like "We Shall Overcome" and "Give Peace A Chance" were sung by thousands of marchers to bring their message to the public. I wish you could have witnessed the impact "24 year old kids with guitars" had back then.

 

 

I am currently reading my way through a book called "The heart of rock and soul" by Dave Marsh. Its a list of his top 1001 singles of all time. He makes a very interesting point regarding one of the famous "anti vietnam" songs (which one it is escapes me, I'll check later). To paraphrase, he says "yes, it was a great anti war song, but the record company would never have released it if it wasn't already clear how the public felt about Vietnam".

 

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I'm pretty sure the American public would still have demanded withdrawal from Vietnam even if Lennon and Yoko hadn't been around...

 

Sam

[Geoff Grace]

 

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I'm pretty sure the American public would still have demanded withdrawal from Vietnam even if Lennon and Yoko hadn't been around...

 

 

It's possible that you're right, but of course we'll never know. I encourage you, though, to take a moment to reflect upon how much music motivates and inspires you personally. I presume it does, or you probably wouldn't be posting in a music forum. Now, add to the equation how much more music was valued by the public back in the sixties. It's hard to explain to those who weren't around back then, but music was a center of attention in a much greater way than it is now. People listened to music instead of putting it on in the background. They discussed hidden meanings and messages in the lyrics. People who weren't musicians would gather around a piano or a guitar and sing together. Music was a central focus in society.

 

Some people say things are different now because there are so many more competing forms of entertainment -- videogames, DVDs, hundreds of television channels, etc., but maybe music was also more important back then because people often sang about things that actually mattered.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[The dman]

 

It's possible that you're right, but of course we'll never know. I encourage you, though, to take a moment to reflect upon how much music motivates and inspires you personally. I presume it does, or you probably wouldn't be posting in a music forum. Now, add to the equation how much more music was valued by the public back in the sixties. It's hard to explain to those who weren't around back then, but music was a center of attention in a much greater way than it is now. People listened to music instead of putting it on in the background. They discussed hidden meanings and messages in the lyrics. People who weren't musicians would gather around a piano or a guitar and sing together. Music was a central focus in society.

 

 

Your absolutely right there were a lot of songs that impacted me and the influence is still with me today. Songs that challenged the status quo, the man, war etc. I know in retrospect the record companies were in it for the $$$ but it did mean something to us.

[spikemullings]

There's a wonderfully self deprecating song in the fabulous Red Songbook (a collection of workers songs), the chorus of which is essentially:

 

As soon as we've had these beers we're gonna get up off of these here bar stools and get this revolution up and running!

[uncle psychosis]

It's possible that you're right, but of course we'll never know. I encourage you, though, to take a moment to reflect upon how much music motivates and inspires you personally. I presume it does, or you probably wouldn't be posting in a music forum.

 

 

They discussed hidden meanings and messages in the lyrics.

 

The message in "I am the walrus" is hidden pretty deep I guess

 

maybe music was also more important back then because people often sang about things that actually mattered.

 

More important? I disagree with you on that one, but thats a matter of opinion. People do still sing about things that matter, its just that most of them don't make the top 40.

 

For what its worth, I'd love to believe that musicians can really make a difference---and I'd rather listen to someone with something to say other than "ooh baby yeah". I just don't think that musicians are as powerful as people sometimes make them out to be!

 

Oh, the song I was on abou earlier was Edwyn Starr's "War"

[GY]

No amount of music is going to fix the huge problems we have. Words are just as useless. It takes action.

[blue2blue]

 

Thankfully, the dude on the right has faded away around here (thought the tats will have to be lasered off, no doubt, those new inks lose their color, leaving indecipherable blobs [unlike the line oriented tats of my old man's generation] but never disappear)... but there is a young woman about 30 or so who frequents my favorite coffee house who looks almost EXACTLY like that, right down to the zippered sweat shirt thingie and the way her bobbed hair curls up at the jawline... really, she could be the model for this drawing... I mean... if I showed that picture to people at the coffee shop they would know exactly who I mean. (Actually, there's another girl who's pretty close to that, too... I used to think they were both the same girl until I saw them both in line at once and thought, holy hannah, there's two.)

 

Nice.

 

____________________________

 

 

With regard to artists and speaking up:

 

I think they have not just every bit as much RIGHT to do so as the rest of us -- they have the same RESPONSIBILITY to...

 

That said, I don't think they should be given any more weight than the perspicacity of their insights and statements warrants.

 

Obviously, there are those whose opinions are almost instantly disposable. But there are those who have, for some of us, won some consideration for their opinions with a history of insigthful, thoughtful, or incisive commentary...

 

I'd say Ted Nugent has every bit as much right as Rush Limbaugh to shoot off his mouth.

 

To use worst case examples, of course.