generation nothing

[murvyn]

No, I didn't get spanked for wearing girl's jeans - I was making reference to the current "hip" fashion trend of guys wearing tight girl's jeans. As if tight jeans weren't uncomfortable enough in general, now they've upped the stupidity by wearing tight jeans that aren't even cut correctly for a mans "physique", if you know what I mean. I used that reference because it's closely linked to the wussed-out pansy generation Alphajerk was complaining about at the beginning of the thread. I guess I'll never get the whole tight jeans "thing", but I guess that's because my generation is the one that went the opposite way with jeans needing to be as loose as possible; Jnco anyone? I'm real comfortable right now in my relaxed fit, straight leg, Silver Tabs.... hmm they don't make 'em like they used to.

 

And positive aspects of political correctness are based on the psychological concept of "unconditional positive regard", which is nothing but a bunch of Behaviorist BS. Ugh, that Behaviorist garbage makes my stomach turn. You know that {censored} pretty much puts people on the same level as animals.... I'm no animal; studying a stupid dog isn't going to teach you {censored} about MY motivations as a human being, because I have a free will and the dog does not. I can fight my instincts anytime I want; I can go against my "programming" any time I want; I have the freedom to do anything any human is capable of within the laws of nature....... etc.. you get the idea. One cannot base any understanding of human behavior by studying animals, and that's what makes Behaviorism so erroneous and ignorant. B.F. Skinner my ass! And that's my argument: that the "culture" behind the concepts of Political Correctness are based on ideas of human emotion which developed within the theories of Behaviorist psychology... and therefore; it's a load of {censored}. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to treat a fellow human being with respect; that's just common courtesy! If people were actually raised with manners and respect for their fellow man, then it wouldn't be an issue, and if a handicapped person can't "deal" with some jerk being an asshole to him every once in awhile, then that's his problem. Life is hard and cruel, and people MUST learn to live with that or the results are.... well, it seems the results are most of what we're seeing in society now; all these emotionally "handicapped" people who can't deal with the basic stresses of living.

 

As far as spanking or any of that goes... I can't really make a good judgment call here, because I've seem people do well with both spanking and time outs and I've seen people do really terrible with both spanking and time outs. And I don't have any kids (that I know of...) so I haven't reached the point in my life where I need to make that decision. I think it comes down to what you're most comfortable with. I certainly don't recommend beating children; I'm sure that wouldn't be a good thing.

 

Wal-Mart and China... Yeah, I consider Wal-Mart to be the Official Communist China Outlet Store. I find that place to be vile and offensive to my values as an American. And oddly enough, I'm NOT anti-Communist, but I think the way companies like Wal-Mart DIRECTLY support the Chinese government but put up this sickening "All-American" facade is a crime against the American people. I never shop there. Never. Not even if they have something I need. No. I won't do it. I refuse to give those traitors any of my money. I would sooner write a check directly to the People of China in memory of the valiant struggle of Chairman Mao; it's the same thing as shopping at Wal-Mart, and it's better because at least it's honest.

 

I have no doubt that China still has millions of extremely poor people living in 3rd World conditions, but the "average" metropolitan is probably on about the same level as what you'd expect to see in any other civilized nation, though I'm sure the per capita percentage overall is lower. I think they're coming along, we have to keep in mind that society has always been very different there, and I don't think it would be right for it to be exactly like how Western society is. Let them work it out.

 

In comparison, earlier tonight, I'm not joking about this, I saw a woman at the gas station who was dressed in rags, I mean she looked like she'd been living on the streets or at least in incredibly squalid conditions. Her skin was in really bad shape; she had that look like she has a serious meth problem, scabs on the face from scratching at it, lotsa missing teeth, etc... you probably know what I mean, and if you don't, consider yourself lucky. So I see this lady at the gas station buying a soda. I'd seen her around before and one time she tried to bum some money off me.... anyway, what I'm saying is she bought her $1 gigantic fountain soda and walked out the door. As I was walking out to my car I saw her drive off... IN A $30,000+ JEEP LIBERTY!!! That's some of the most messed-up {censored} I've ever seen. She can't clothe herself, she can't scrape enough change together for a pack of cigarettes, but she can afford to drive a gigantic {censored}ing SUV! Is this what America's coming to?

 

Sorry for the obscenely long rant. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just in the mood to vent. That scene with the meth-head at the gas station really disturbed me.

[alphajerk]

 

Just my opinion: First off, I know that they would laugh at your over-dramatic view of the state of the country. I've sat and watched CNN and "Hardball" with them. A "wasteland of {censored}" ?? PLEEEase they would say. Molestation of the Constitution ? I know they don't buy into that type of hype. But I can tell you that as soon as they hear stuff like....reminds me of Hitler....and ....becoming a totaltarian state....and other such nonsense your going to get the big "Oh, Pleeease, spare me, glazed over look. They seem to be better then that at keeping things in a perspective that is closer tuned to reality.

 

 

sounds to me like they are the brainwashed... spoonfed by the media [cough governmental] drivel constantly spewing out the boob tube.

 

we are currently in the decline of western civilization... and its going to take a small miracle to reverse the damage this administration and congress [last one more so than current one] has done to this country sinking it heavily into debt into a endless war while stripping the bill of rights down to nothing all in the name of patriotism. i guess your kids arent keeping up to tabs on the laws that are changing and have been slowly, yet brick by brick over the past 7 years. sadly, its not just the federal but state and local levels too.

 

freedom isnt lost all at once, it is done in small amounts. getting it back is far more difficult than letting it go. they need to wake up... because as they snooze, when they wake up [iF they ever wake up] it will all be gone.

[Ernest Buckley]

So does that mean if I like getting spanked while wearing girls jeans, theres something wrong with me?

[PBBPaul]

 

I also think if you were around in the 60s, you have absolutely no idea how difficult it is today for a 20 or 30 something just to get by. And I literally mean to just get by. Let alone a nice house in suburbia with the two new cars, pretty wife that stays home and takes care of the kids, makes you dinner and your dog Reno playing in your 1 acre backyard. That is no longer America, or at least for most.People today are working 2-3 jobs just to pay rent!

 

 

The definition of "just getting by" has changed dramatically since the 60s. I grew up in a decent middle class neighborhood. My father was the sole income earner and made around $5000/year; allowing us to live comfortably. My dad drove the big Buick while my mother had a very used Pontiac purchased for $25. We had one TV in the family room. My mother made most of our clothes when we were little. I remember distinctly getting my first pair of Levi's and what an honor it was. As the youngest, I wore mostly hand-me-downs. We had one pair of dress shoes and one pair of play shoes. My mother was an excellent cook and we always ate dinner together at home. She also made my breakfast and bag lunches for school. We had two telephones in the house. We had a piano that my father would play and a radio/record player for listening to music.

 

I look at my life now and what we "need" to get by. My kids have more clothes and shoes than they can find. We eat more prepared foods than scratch. Between my 3 children and us we have three TVs with satellite, 5 stereo systems, surround sound, 5 computers, 4 telephones, 3 cell phones, 6 bikes, 2 boats, a huge swing/play set, two newer cars, two video game systems, etc... And we definitely don't keep up with the "Joneses" in my neighborhood.

 

If you want to go back to the average lifestyle of a 60's family, you could probably do quite well on a single income. If you want to "get by" by today's standards, it takes two average incomes or one big one.

[Ernest Buckley]

I guess everything is relative. If you were to move your family from the 60s into 2007, they would be considered very poor. Right?

 

I was thinking about this thread the other day and thought how spoiled we really are afterall.

 

EB

[PBBPaul]

 

I guess everything is relative. If you were to move your family from the 60s into 2007, they would be considered very poor. Right? I was thinking about this thread the other day and thought how spoiled we really are afterall. EB

 

 

Very poor? I don't know... Just not self-indulgent.

 

I agree that we as a civilization, as a generation are ridiculously spoiled.

[Ernest Buckley]

I`m saying in todays terms, your 60s upbringing would be considered poor. I mean no offense by that.

 

EB

[PBBPaul]

I understand and certainly no offense taken. My upbringing was quite normal for where/when I grew up but to have only one TV, no computers, no cell phones, no satellite/cable, home-made food, etc... would probably qualify a family as poor in today's self-indulgent world.

 

What if a family lives that way because they choose to? Do we consider Amish to be poor?

[RobRoy]

 

I`m saying in todays terms, your 60s upbringing would be considered poor. I mean no offense by that. EB

 

Actually, I went to Puerto Vallarta over Christmas and as I saw the beat up pickups with people riding in the back, the uneven sidewalks, and all the families out together, I felt like I was home - except they didn't speak english.

 

It really was weird - that I longed for such a lifestyle again. Closer to the "earth".

[UstadKhanAli]

 

What if a family lives that way because they choose to? Do we consider Amish to be poor?

 

 

I hope not.

[Synonym Music]

it will all be gone.

 

 

 

It's not like you're helping, so shut the hell up already. That responsibility is equally yours, and until you can substantially disprove your hypocrisy this "generation nothing" doesn't care how much you sit and bellyache. Good luck finding people who will rally with you though. There aren't enough who believe. That's the whole reason why we don't have change; too many opinions.

 

There, I gave away the answer. Hope you weren't too blind to see it.

[UstadKhanAli]

If you want to see people in their 20s who are succeeding, that's easy enough to find.

 

And if you want to see people in their 20s who are miserable, failing fill in what really bothers you here

[murvyn]

So does that mean if I like getting spanked while wearing girls jeans, theres something wrong with me?

 

No, just as long as you paid a hooker to do it to you like any normal kinky pervert should. Or, if you're a gigolo and someone paid you to wear girl jeans and get spanked; this too is acceptable. But, if you're getting spanked wearing girl jeans and no money has changed hands, then there's definitely something wrong with you and you should see a doctor. The only exception would be - of course - if the person spanking you is a 10-year-old Japanese schoolgirl, then it is perfectly normal to be in that sort of position - especially if it's being filmed for some kind of pthc film that's to be distributed in Russia.

 

but I digress....

 

Alphajerk is 100% correct. Those people have been brainwashed and it's sickening. I hate the lack of action within the younger generations. I blame our woefully inadequate education system for a good portion of it. Since when has funding for education been a "liberal" value? To me, education seems more of a practical value than anything else. This issues we are discussing should be beyond any ignorant political ideas of Left or Right, but the brainwashing pundits on TV turn them into polarizing issues so people will argue about them endlessly and get nothing done. This is how the powerful stay in power.

[alphajerk]

There aren't enough who believe.

 

there arent enough who THINK. the school system made sure of this.

[alphajerk]

 

but I digress.... Alphajerk is 100% correct. Those people have been brainwashed and it's sickening. I hate the lack of action within the younger generations. I blame our woefully inadequate education system for a good portion of it. Since when has funding for education been a "liberal" value? To me, education seems more of a practical value than anything else. This issues we are discussing should be beyond any ignorant political ideas of Left or Right, but the brainwashing pundits on TV turn them into polarizing issues so people will argue about them endlessly and get nothing done. This is how the powerful stay in power.

 

 

good thing you came back on course there.... you so get it. the only partisan bull{censored} is between the government and the constituency, and the government puts teh constituency at odds with each other...

[murvyn]

Our government officials have forgotten the definition of the term "public servant". We are their bosses. It is their responsibility to carry out the will of the citizens and to make decisions based on the needs of the populace - not necessarily the voting public either, because ALL citizens have equal rights to representation under law, regardless of whether they voted for the representatives or not. Elected officials who don't base every decision on the good of the nation are committing a crime against the nation. An official's personal opinions are no longer important once he's been elected to office. The ONLY opinions which should affect his decisions are those of his constituents. He is to be a pawn to carry out their will. He should have the wisdom and education required to make the best decisions in regards to the needs of the people.

 

When a small minority of individuals is responsible for the decisions of a government, it's called an "Oligarchy". America isn't intended to be an Oligarchy, it's supposed to be a Representative Democracy, and it's time the American public start voicing their concerns that this fundamental concept is being ignored by our officials. The structure of the government itself is sound, but the people holding the offices are ignorant of and/or unwilling to carry out their jobs in the manner prescribed in our Constitution and according to the fundamental philosophical concepts which were integral to the founding of this country. They should all be fired. They must be held responsible for their flawed and ignorant actions. Their lack of understanding of these fundamental concepts and philosophies is one of their biggest flaws; it is a situation which must be corrected.

 

How can we expect younger generations to be worth a {censored} when this is what they have as examples of "model citizens"? Once again, much of it comes back to proper education, both intellectual and moral... and by moral, I DON'T mean religious. Religion can be a positive wonderful thing in an individual's life, but moral values should be taught as inherent truths which are used to guide human interactions for the greater good, not as some kind of controlling religious dogma.

[alphajerk]

http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

 

Flagged down: Activists arrested in row over protest flag, allege abuse by Buncombe deputy

by David Forbes on 07/26/2007

 

The Buncombe County Sheriff

[alphajerk]

dug this quote from the discussion on that link, kinda sums peoples apathy up here:

 

 

[Kerouac]

Aye yai yai... where to begin???

 

Well, my birth date is 02/12/1983, making me just shy of 24.5 years old. I'm a musician/artist/writer who has lived in the suburbs, city, and country, and was raised in the red state of Ohio. My grandparents on both sides are Republicans, and my father is a Republican while my mother is a Moderate who leans slightly to the Democratic stance on civil issues, and more to the right on business issues. I have a 17 year old-sister who is a Democrat. For generations both sides of the family have been raised Methodist, with only my mother's father, my sis, and myself as non-christians... myself being a Buddhist.

 

I went to two different colleges where I consistently made the , but dropped out, got a job and dedicated my life to the things that matter most to me... truth, justice, happiness, art, and the pursuit of free will. I've involved myself heavily in grassroots political movements, appear/perform at many benefit/political concerts, and volunteer at animal shelters and tutoring groups, as well as beginning to spend a lot of time in the mental health community for all it has given to me. I also write a lot of music of a political nature and while it is occasionally results in a loss of income, I will not perform with or record a group or artist that I have ideological issues with. I don't care if I'd get 200k, I wouldn't play with Ted Nugent because I don't want to be associated with his mentality... even though I 100% agree with his right to express his opinions.

 

I vote with my wallet, as well as taking time out of my day to vote in both local and national elections. I don't vote down a party line, and I carefully research all candidates, as well as past voting records. I regularly email my Governor and Congressmen, and go to City Council meetings. I forward all of my emails onto friends and family, and the majority of them rarely respond to me, or craft their own responses, but I do it because I feel that maybe if I lead by example, other just might be inspired. And sometimes I pay the price for it...

 

Most of my friends are 23-27, and have nice jobs pulling down 50k+, drive newer cars, own nice homes, lofts or townehouses, have HDTVs, nice clothes and cool toys, are married or deeply committed and have started a family. I rent a large townehouse (buying a home soon hopefully), drive a 12 year old Saturn wagon, make/modify my own clothes for the most part, and make about 25-30k a year depending on outside projects. But when I can go out of town for a week to record or perform with someone I admire, or head to this weekends protest the next state over, I can almost always just pack a bag and go.

 

I may not be all over MTV (not that they play much music anyway) or a person to be seen in People Magazine, but I do my part and try to get others into it. I'm so incredibly proud of my little sister to actually be interested in politics (she can't WAIT to vote) as well as her following the rest of the family into music on a professional level. But even if she worked at McDonalds she could be a catalyst for change if she chose to. As I say in one of my songs (Middle Eastern Skies)-

 

And what do we do / do we let fighting go through / or do we pick up tired feet / and move into the streets/ remind the men upstairs / they're put there by you...

[murvyn]

Kerouac, you must live in a much less economically-depressed area than I if you actually have many friends in their mid-20s with quality $50K+/year jobs. That kind of economy and lifestyle simply doesn't exist where I live in the midwest. The only people in my city who make money even close to that have to earn it by working soul-destroying factory jobs... and they aren't very secure in those jobs... and they are usually in debt up to their ears, which assures them a lifetime of wage-slavery. The rest of use are just dirt-poor and lucky to find {censored}ty low-wage jobs... even with a good education, the opportunities simply don't exist here.

[Synonym Music]

 

there arent enough who THINK. the school system made sure of this.

 

 

You know why you fail at this discussion - if we can even call it that anymore? Because you're not part of this generation. You have no basis with which to make these nonsensical claims. The fact that you started this debauchery of a thread is a HUGE tell that you not only do not understand this generation, but you'd also rather not listen to anyone in it.

 

This is why you have no argument and why I can breeze along and let you fall in the hole you've dug yourself. It's almost pathetic blowing on that house of cards you're sitting in but hey, I didn't build it.

[Kerouac]

 

Kerouac, you must live in a much less economically-depressed area than I if you actually have many friends in their mid-20s with quality $50K+/year jobs. That kind of economy and lifestyle simply doesn't exist where I live in the midwest. The only people in my city who make money even close to that have to earn it by working soul-destroying factory jobs... and they aren't very secure in those jobs... and they are usually in debt up to their ears, which assures them a lifetime of wage-slavery. The rest of use are just dirt-poor and lucky to find {censored}ty low-wage jobs... even with a good education, the opportunities simply don't exist here.

 

 

Well, I live out in the suburbs of Cincinnati, and most of my friends live in Hyde Park (the more affluent area that kind of neighbors the "city"-city). All of my friends at UC but myself started out in Engineering, and most of them still work in that field... one of my friends jumped ship with me to the CCM E-Media program, graduated, and got a very nice job (not quite 50k like the engineers but still awesome compared to me) doing web/flash/multimedia design for a local chapter of a nationally based company. I have a lawyer friends, doctor friends, a friend who work at the Kroger corporate headquarters, even a SWAT Team friend!!

 

Now, I also have friends who are like me... artists that either just get by, or have enough to live fairly comfortably, but really, they're in the minority. Most of my "successful" friends don't have an creative passions and would rather spend their weekend playing with the kids or at a Bengals game then writing poems or playing out. That said, they're incredibly supportive of me, come to my shows, pass on my music to their other friends, etc... it's just something they themselves have no interest in doing.

 

I don't know where in the Midwest you are, but the Greater Cincinnati area includes a lot of high revenue generating suburbs, as well as Northern Kentucky and stretching almost to Dayton depending on who draws the lines. We have major corps like GE (my step-dad work at the Aircraft Division designing engines), P&G, and Kroger here, as well as Coke, Budweiser and Ford plants.

 

Unfortunately, what you expressed is somewhat true... with three major universities around us, we have lots of prime candidates for job openings (especially through carefully worked out internships and job placements), and due to that a lot of people with an education STILL have a hard time finding a job... especially as many company's no-longer care about long-term employment. One of my best friends went through 3 jobs after graduating before being where he is now!

 

Conversely, I have work about 3 times that many in the same amount of years as he, but that is because I choose to make sacrifices to do what I love... such as going out on tour, etc...

 

I've lived out west, in the north east and here in the mid-west, and as many have said, times are tough all over for "just getting by." [qoute= PBBPaul]

I look at my life now and what we "need" to get by. My kids have more clothes and shoes than they can find. We eat more prepared foods than scratch. Between my 3 children and us we have three TVs with satellite, 5 stereo systems, surround sound, 5 computers, 4 telephones, 3 cell phones, 6 bikes, 2 boats, a huge swing/play set, two newer cars, two video game systems, etc... And we definitely don't keep up with the "Joneses" in my neighborhood. [/qoute]

 

I liked how you contrasted this with what you needed growing up. I definitely have some things I don't need like all my old Nintendo systems, but I do need two computers (one for recording, the other for web); I just have a cell phone instead of a house phone too... it's easier for someone to find me if they really need to that way; I do have two TVs, but neither of them has an antenna or cable or satellite... I use them to watch VHS and DVDs. I'm NOT making any kind of judgment on what you have at all... I'm just agreeing with your assessment of how things have changed, and also pointing out that it's different from person to person.

[alphajerk]

 

You know why you fail at this discussion - if we can even call it that anymore? Because you're not part of this generation. You have no basis with which to make these nonsensical claims. The fact that you started this debauchery of a thread is a HUGE tell that you not only do not understand this generation, but you'd also rather not listen to anyone in it. This is why you have no argument and why I can breeze along and let you fall in the hole you've dug yourself. It's almost pathetic blowing on that house of cards you're sitting in but hey, I didn't build it.

 

 

because you have nothing to say... breeze by with the wool over your eyes. you simply prove my point i suppose. its not a hole i dug that will be fallen in, its the hole in your own head that will be your own demise.

 

the proof of difference is upon you, not me.

[PBBPaul]

I liked how you contrasted this with what you needed growing up. I definitely have some things I don't need like all my old Nintendo systems, but I do need two computers (one for recording, the other for web); I just have a cell phone instead of a house phone too... it's easier for someone to find me if they really need to that way; I do have two TVs, but neither of them has an antenna or cable or satellite... I use them to watch VHS and DVDs. I'm NOT making any kind of judgment on what you have at all... I'm just agreeing with your assessment of how things have changed, and also pointing out that it's different from person to person.

 

Thank you. I think you got most of the point of my codgeresque post. I get a bit irritated by people (of any age) who complain about needing to work three jobs just "to get by". To me, just getting by means you have basic clothes, food, water and shelter. Everything else is a "want", not a "need". A nice house in the suburbs is not "getting by". It is something to work your ass off for and earn. Something you do for your family. Sometimes it takes two incomes to get it; sometimes one but nobody is entitled to it. A TV (or 5 or whatever), a computer (or 3), a cell phone, a car, etc... are all things that make our lives easier but are not necessities. My sister is extremely intelligent and well-educated but lives at the poverty level because she does what she believes in and what she believes in doesn't pay all that well. In her mind, she has plenty. I often envy her and would really like to simplify my life. But I'm only half the decision making body in my family .

[Geoff Grace]

The funny thing is that we baby boomers were said to have been spoiled by our depression era parents who gave us everything they couldn't have when they were young; and to a degree, by their standards, we were.

 

Best,

 

Geoff