Malibu

[Kendrix]

Let us know ASAP if San Bernadino Co. starts burning. If so it might be worth a trip out west just to breath that air. Ontario, Lake Arrowhead / Green Valley Lake... San Bernardino Co. is already burning. One good thing about the Santa Ana winds is that they usually cause the clearest skies we get all year. Of course, that's when there are not any fires. Air quality right now is complete crap due to the fires, but if they weren't burning, our air quality would be excellent (for a change). Having said that, the air quality in the SoCA area is significantly better today than it was in the 1960's / 1970's when I was a kid.

oops I meant to say Mendocino county. - Joke ruined.

[HCarlH]

I know you're joking but, believe it or not, when I was in high school (dinosaurs still roamed the earth)

 

 

Not joking...you've never heard of Art Tuttle the loony?

 

http://www.warriorssociety.org/Blackstar_info.html

[Anderton]

I don't think we, as a society, should have the death penalty. Frankly, I'm not at all unsympathetic with the emotions behind Craig's presumably hyperbolic suggested punishment. I think drawing and quartering is just about right... but I think that sort of thing is very bad for the rest of us.

 

You presumed right. I am VERY much against the death penalty for two reasons:

 

1. They don't always get the right person. The fact that many people who didn't commit a crime were killed "by accident" is enough reason to abolish the death penalty.

2. I don't get the logic of "You killed somebody, and killing is bad...so we're going to kill you." If killing is bad, killing is bad. I think playing God, whether it's creating tomato plants that can't reproduce so farmers have to keep buying new seeds from some huge company, or killing people, is not a good thing.

 

However, when I think about people like the guy in Florida who raped and brutally murdered a poor little 9-year-old girl, who IIRC was buried alive clutching her teddy bear, life in prison without the possibility of parole seems awfully light. I think under those circumstances, someone like that should have to work for the rest of his life, as long as he's able, on something that benefits people...whether it's knitting sweaters for homeless people, or serving as a punching bag for boxing practice. Or be a guinea pig to test out side effects for medications...that sort of thing. Don't kill them, just make them serve some useful purpose--preferably something that could help save someone else's life.

[MichaelSaulnier]

As Phil pointed out, fires and high intensity Santa Ana conditions combine to create the opportunity for "firestorms" like we're seeing this week.

The Santa Ana's are caused by massive high pressure bubbles that develop in the deserts East of CA. The hot, dry, off-shore winds, with gusts as high as 100 mph provide the "ride" hot embers need to move large distances, quickly. This has been happening as long as people lived here... so it's probably not directly related to "global warming"...

Long before westerners lived here, Santa Ana's and fires were occuring, and in some ways it's a "cleansing" sort of thing... this fire's "disposing" of decades of plant growth and death... making a near term future fire far less likely.

Sadly, we get in the way, and our property, and sometimes lives are lost.

I saw someone mention that "no deaths" had occured. Sadly, that's incorrect. On the first day, a 52 year old man died in one of the fires in the SouthEast part of San Diego. He was trying to save his son, who was caught trying to defend the family home with a garden hose. Four firefighters went in to attempt to rescue them, and I believe three of them along with the son are in the emergency burn center.

There have also been numerous injuries among fire personnel and residents from smoke inhalation.

I mean think of all the CHEMICAL CRAP that we all have in our houses. It's a real toxic soup.

The fire is 24 hour coverage here in SD.

One interesting thing I saw...

One of the roving reporters working last night in Rancho Bernardo suddenly noticed a couple of high school kids approaching them. It turned out they were from the neighborhood, helping keep embers from igniting the lawns and bushes of nearby homes. They guessed that, working together with the on-site professional firefighters, they saved at least 5 homes from catching fire.

The on-site reporter interviewed them, and called them "heroes" in her report... only to be chasened by one of the "desk" reporters, pointing out that these kids were in a manditory evacuation zone, didn't have any protective clothing or breathing assistance... not even face masks... and maybe it was a "bad idea" to call them "heroes", as it could be an example to others to violate the manditory evacuation.

It was quite a "PC" moment.

I do know one thing. If MY HOUSE, was one of the ones those kids saved... they'd be heroes in my book!

[John Sayers]

The last words of the last person to face capital punishment in Australia were:

"This will teach me a lesson"

[UstadKhanAli]

Ken, the USA doesn't condone torture or cruel and unusual punishment.

Right...that's why I didn't suggest "Meet the Fockers".

[alphajerk]

However, when I think about people like the guy in Florida who raped and brutally murdered a poor little 9-year-old girl, who IIRC was buried alive clutching her teddy bear, life in prison without the possibility of parole seems awfully light. I think under those circumstances, someone like that should have to work for the rest of his life, as long as he's able, on something that benefits people...whether it's knitting sweaters for homeless people, or serving as a punching bag for boxing practice. Or be a guinea pig to test out side effects for medications...that sort of thing. Don't kill them, just make them serve some useful purpose--preferably something that could help save someone else's life.

i think the victims parents should be allowed to beat him to death while he is restrained... there are cases for the death penalty, however it is too humane as it is now with not enough "justice" for the victims.

i do agree too many go to the chair innocent, and thats a problem with our legal system.

[UstadKhanAli]

For people like that, it's hard to argue with that. What I'd go for is some of the ultimate in punishment. I'd strap the a**hole into a car and repeatedly send him through the "It's A Small World" ride in Disneyland for the next twenty years.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Latest photo: the sun at 3:50PM. Those aren't clouds...

[bbach]

Been watching the socal fire situation, glued to the news, everyday. I just wanted to wish you all the best of luck out there. From what I understand, there's still two months left in the fire season.
Wow, that stuff looks freakin scary. Like a giant hot fireball locomotive shooting right at you.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that stuff can always be replaced. That's just not true. Stuff like houses, walls, sofas, etc, yea, that can always be replaced. But the personal stuff burns as well. That stuff is your life. All the photos and heirlooms and keepsakes. Can't replace em.

Dakota people are praying for you. I don't know if any being listens to our prayers, but we are doing it. Keep safe all of you.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that stuff can always be replaced. That's just not true. Stuff like houses, walls, sofas, etc, yea, that can always be replaced. But the personal stuff burns as well. That stuff is your life. All the photos and heirlooms and keepsakes. Can't replace em.

All stuff, even the most important heirloom, isn't worth a single life being lost. That's the sentiment of the expression.

[UstadKhanAli]

From my Eleven Shadows page (same two photos)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Toxic Potatoe, my good friend, lives in Crestline, and is under a mandatory evac order. They were able to get in and check on their house, and everything's still okay, but the fire is within a mile or two of their house, just over the next ridge line. Pretty scary. We've offered to put them up, but apparently they have someplace else to stay - but he did ask if I would hold on to some of his prized guitars for a few days...

 

My prayers and best wishes to all of those who are affected by these horrible fires.

[blue2blue]

 

Not joking...you've never heard of Art Tuttle the loony? http://www.warriorssociety.org/Blackstar_info.html

 

 

 

Ah... a right of way issue.

 

Those can be problematic in areas confronting increasing influxes of people. People get used to being left alone -- and as the author of the page you link to says:

Many of the residents complaints concerning the actions of the those "asses" that cause the problems such as litter and miss-using guns are valid and we should all participate in reporting criminal activity as well as pick up the litter left by others. I also prefer to keep this right to use Blackstar as quiet as possible and prefer not to have the sign designating the publics right to use the road posted to discourage those that cause the problems from giving us all a black eye. It is not the Mountain bikers who cause the problems here, but the one's who believe a good time cannot be had without beer, guns and destroying whatever they get their hands on. I personally have no problem with the residents harassing these users, or should I say abusers.

I also notice on that page's author writes:

I have never had any problem with the residents when I have dealt with them in this manner. That is what has perplexed me in this matter. Art has never assaulted me and treated me respectfully. To those who know him he is not a monster. Art is a Christian and if you treat him decently, he will be compelled to treat you the same.

I can easily imagine that these are folks who may have lived undisturbed for decades but now have to deal with a mix of people trying to use long-forgotten public roads to access public lands. As the writer notes and I can imagine: you can get a real mix of people from the respectful to the dreadful.

 

I'm sympathetic with anyone who respects and loves the area, whether they're residents or visitors.

 

 

By the way -- from what I heard on the news, the Santiago fire was intentionally set.

 

It's sad to see that the resident's fear of interlopers appears to have been, in this case, justified.

 

[Jeff da Weasel]

4:50 PM:

 

5:45 PM:

 

5:45 PM, close up (kids don't try this at home):

[blue2blue]

 

As Phil pointed out, fires and high intensity Santa Ana conditions combine to create the opportunity for "firestorms" like we're seeing this week. The Santa Ana's are caused by massive high pressure bubbles that develop in the deserts East of CA. The hot, dry, off-shore winds, with gusts as high as 100 mph provide the "ride" hot embers need to move large distances, quickly. This has been happening as long as people lived here... so it's probably not directly related to "global warming"... Long before westerners lived here, Santa Ana's and fires were occuring, and in some ways it's a "cleansing" sort of thing... this fire's "disposing" of decades of plant growth and death... making a near term future fire far less likely. Sadly, we get in the way, and our property, and sometimes lives are lost. I saw someone mention that "no deaths" had occured. Sadly, that's incorrect. On the first day, a 52 year old man died in one of the fires in the SouthEast part of San Diego. He was trying to save his son, who was caught trying to defend the family home with a garden hose. Four firefighters went in to attempt to rescue them, and I believe three of them along with the son are in the emergency burn center. There have also been numerous injuries among fire personnel and residents from smoke inhalation. I mean think of all the CHEMICAL CRAP that we all have in our houses. It's a real toxic soup. The fire is 24 hour coverage here in SD. One interesting thing I saw... One of the roving reporters working last night in Rancho Bernardo suddenly noticed a couple of high school kids approaching them. It turned out they were from the neighborhood, helping keep embers from igniting the lawns and bushes of nearby homes. They guessed that, working together with the on-site professional firefighters, they saved at least 5 homes from catching fire. The on-site reporter interviewed them, and called them "heroes" in her report... only to be chasened by one of the "desk" reporters, pointing out that these kids were in a manditory evacuation zone, didn't have any protective clothing or breathing assistance... not even face masks... and maybe it was a "bad idea" to call them "heroes", as it could be an example to others to violate the manditory evacuation. It was quite a "PC" moment. I do know one thing. If MY HOUSE, was one of the ones those kids saved... they'd be heroes in my book!

 

 

Well, the problem is that that entirely appropriate honorific might, indeed, encourage others to try to mimic their heroism -- and that is, likely enough, the last thing the firefighters need.

 

As you pointed out earlier in your post, one man died and four (including three much-needed firefighters) were injured when one of them apparently tried to fight a firestorm with a garden hose, requiring the help of the others.

 

Sometimes truly heroic actions can have unfortunate consequences...

 

 

 

On the radio I heard a clip of a San Diego news reporter standing in front of his own home of 25 years and reporting while he watched it burn.

 

Talk about your human interest story... damn. It was tough to listen to. But kind of heroic, in its small way, too.

[daklander]

Snip.... The on-site reporter interviewed them, and called them "heroes" in her report... only to be chasened by one of the "desk" reporters, pointing out that these kids were in a manditory evacuation zone, didn't have any protective clothing or breathing assistance... not even face masks... and maybe it was a "bad idea" to call them "heroes", as it could be an example to others to violate the manditory evacuation. It was quite a "PC" moment. I do know one thing. If MY HOUSE, was one of the ones those kids saved... they'd be heroes in my book!

 

 

I'd been watching KUSI on our cable but they lost the on air transmission so I missed that part, if that's the station that was covering it. Heroes indeed, albeit not so smart, being in a highly dangerous sitiuation. They need a quiet pat on the back, not too public or every mother's son will try that next time around and then more un-necessary deaths will occur.

[daklander]

A pic looking toward San Diego County from about 10 miles, straight line. My home is a couple of miles just to the left and on the camera side of the left most smoke plume.

[Phil O'Keefe]

5:45 PM:

I've seen some short yellow lights before, but I think this is going a bit too far...

[Anderton]

I just heard a half-million people have been evacuated. Jeez, that's huge. Very, very sad...I hope they all have houses when they're allowed to go back.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Right...that's why I didn't suggest "Meet the Fockers".

Well, if you ever want to change careers, with the way you think, I imagine the CIA could probably find a suitable job opening for you.

[Phil O'Keefe]

So I'm sitting here, watching the news, and they have pictures of the Qualcomm stadium. Looks like things are well organized, with lots of food, medical personnel, etc. etc. And I couldn't help but think about that vs the Superdome in New Orleans after Katrina.

 

Is it a case of "lessons learned"? Better disaster preparedness in S.D. vs N.O.? More money in the geographical area and thus a greater desire of the government officials to not screw up and tick off the constituents? As Craig pointed out, we're talking about HUGE numbers of people affected by this fire disaster...

 

I'm not trying to go political with this, but the differences are... striking. The question is, why?

[Phil O'Keefe]

I just heard a half-million people have been evacuated. Jeez, that's huge. Very, very sad...I hope they all have houses when they're allowed to go back.

Unfortunately, a lot of them won't.

Some good news though - my friend John (Toxic Potatoe) and all my other friends up the hill still have their houses - at least as of an hour or so ago. But again, a lot of other folks aren't so fortunate. And at least two people have lost their lives.

[UstadKhanAli]

Well, if you ever want to change careers, with the way you think, I imagine the CIA could probably find a suitable job opening for you.

Send me to Guantanamo. I'll have those guys spilling their secrets in no time. "Please turn off Celine Dion!! I'm willing to talk now!!!"

[Geoff Grace]

We're mostly okay here and not too close to the fires, but the air quality has certainly been an issue. My heart goes out to everyone who has suffered from this.

 

The worst day for me was a couple of days ago. I was directly downwind of one of the fires; and at 2:30 in the afternoon, the sky was dark enough to cause lights that are controlled by sensors to turn on outside. In other words, it was as dark as dusk in the middle of the afternoon. The sky was orange.

 

With the exception of severe dust storms in Arizona, I've never seen that level of darkness during the day in my entire life.

 

Unfortunately, I was already sick with a chest cold, so it was particularly hard to breathe. The wind pounded the building so hard that a layer of soot made its way through to the inside of the windowsills! I didn't get around to checking the air quality level in the area on the Internet until conditions had already improved. At that point, it was categorized as "very unhealthy;" but my brother told me that it had been in the "hazardous" category earlier. (That's the worst category.)

 

Even though the fires have worsened since then, I haven't had to deal with anything that severe again because I haven't been as directly downwind as I was that day.

 

I sure hope things improve soon, for everyone's sake.

 

Best,

 

Geoff