Malibu

[HCarlH]

Silverado has definitely changed over the decades and it's no longer the province of marginal bohos and displaced country folk -- but it's got a charm that has never died for me. I hope mightily that it can be saved.

 

 

I believe there is still that crazy old man living there that shoots at mountain bikers and claims they are trespassing on his land....which is false.

There is a right of way there.

 

I won't go to Silverado alone....too many evil things...murders, robbery...happen there.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Reading about all this, I'm amazed there have been no deaths reported yet - praying that it stays that way.

There have been... just one that I know of. Here's hoping it's the only one (but doubting it ).

[UstadKhanAli]

Whats scary about all this, is even a bling man can see there's a big change happening. -Rampant wildfires in CA. -Warm fall temps in Chicago, Northeast etc. -GA lakes drying up with 80 day supply of water left(GA is practically a rainforest!). -Melting iceburgs...etc etc. Something is changing on the planet, and it's happening fast...real fast! Somebody please take the politics out of the global warming conversation, and lets discuss what needs to be done! If there's anything we can do?!

Re: Wildfires

First off, let me say that I believe that global warming is a genuine concern, and I am also not injecting politics into this discussion. And btw, I have no affiliation with any political party because none of them speak for me, and none of their policies resonate fully with me.

Funny disclaimer aside, much of the problems of the rampant fires in California right now are due more to population explosions - mankind's encroachment on the wilderness, and particularly, dry brush areas. Many, if not most, of the fires are due to people. Downed power lines, ignition/heat from cars, cigarette butts, and obviously arson are the main contributors to these brushfires. It has far more to do with this and less about global warming.

Whats scary about all this, is even a bling man can see there's a big change happening.

Are you suggesting that people with tons of shiny jewelry might have more difficulty seeing big changes happening?

[Anderton]

Ken, our official Voice of Reason! I would not connect global warming with the fires, but I sure would connect it with lots of other weird weather-related phenomena.

 

There was a prediction that global warming would mean a hyperactive hurricane season last year and this year, and it didn't happen. So, some people concluded global warming isn't real. I think the conclusion that needs to be drawn is more along the lines that our computer models are pretty pathetic at predicting global issues, no matter how well they do at tracking, say, the path of a particular storm or hurricane.

[Anderton]

The more I listen to the news, the worse this sounds. Good luck, everyone.

[UstadKhanAli]

Thanks, Craig!

I forgot to add in there that in places in California where there is not been a marked increase in population (national forests, deserts, remote mountains, etc.), there has not been an increase in the amount or severity of brush and forest fires since people started recording these over a hundred years ago.

So one of my points in this is that, while global warming doesn't help brush fires, I believe it's at most a very minor cause. and based on the fire chief's testimony on AM 1070 yesterday, it would seem he agrees with me. Therefore, he can remain in charge for now.

[UstadKhanAli]

We might have a friend staying at our house tonight who lives up in the Stevenson Ranch area. It's really cataclysmic out there, and we're lucky that we are not directly affected. It's eerie how many people I know have evacuated or cannot go to work, though...in other words, the fires are having a profound impact on a LOT of people.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Whats scary about all this, is even a blind man can see there's a big change happening.

 

-Rampant wildfires in CA.

 

I don't mean to imply that global warming isn't happening (that seems to be fairly well established fact at this point - although the debate about the cause, or the contribution to the warming by human activities, is still ongoing) , but I think that pointing to the fires as a side effect of that is pushing things a bit.

 

I'm a SoCA native, and have lived here the majority of my 45 years, and as far back as I can remember, we've had Santa Ana winds like clockwork every fall. And frequently, some pretty bad fires along with them. It's nothing new, and I don't see how you can draw a correlation with global warming, unless you are saying it's due to our recent drought... but remember, two years ago, we had record rainfall... and lots of rain means lots of plant growth, lots of fuel, and when that dries out, red flag warnings due to increased fire danger. But again, even that is nothing new, and similar conditions have occurred several times in my lifetime, with similar tragic results.

 

I think we'll find that at least some of these fires were caused by "firebugs" / arsonists. As soon as the Santa Anas kick up, they start setting fires. And AFAIC, if you intentionally start a fire and someone dies, you should go to jail for life, with no possibility of parole.

[meccajay]

Re: Wildfires First off, let me say that I believe that global warming is a genuine concern, and I am also not injecting politics into this discussion. much of the problems of the rampant fires in California right now are due more to population explosions - mankind's encroachment on the wilderness, and particularly, dry brush areas. Many, if not most, of the fires are due to people. Downed power lines, ignition/heat from cars, cigarette butts, and obviously arson are the main contributors to these brushfires. It has far more to do with this and less about global warming.

 

 

Hey Ken!

 

1st let me say I truly believe that as well with regard to this particular fire. What has me connecting this in any way to global warming is in the glut of CNN/Fox news interviews yesterday, I heard a member of the forestry service saying that this trend of mega-fires is partly there fault, due to there long standing policy that has them immediately jump on forest fires, which also causes a huge amount of leftover, unburnt fuel for any large scale fires to feed on. What he also said is there is a recent trend of hotter, dryer, longer lasting summers, which could lead to fires on a scale we haven't yet seen, and has them very very worried.

[Jeff da Weasel]

What he also said is there is a recent trend of hotter, dryer, longer lasting summers, which could lead to fires on a scale we haven't yet seen, and has them very very worried.

 

 

Right... and in that aspect, it is a combination of factors that include both current man-made situations as well as long-term "natural" environmental changes.

 

No matter what side of the global warming fence you sit, it certainly can't HURT to act responsibly for our own and future generations. That's why the political argument boggles my mind.

[Phil O'Keefe]

No matter what side of the global warming fence you sit, it certainly can't HURT to act responsibly for our own and future generations.

 

I can certainly agree with that! :phil:

[UstadKhanAli]

Hey Ken! 1st let me say I truly believe that as well with regard to this particular fire. What has me connecting this in any way to global warming is in the glut of CNN/Fox news interviews yesterday, I heard a member of the forestry service saying that this trend of mega-fires is partly there fault, due to there long standing policy that has them immediately jump on forest fires, which also causes a huge amount of leftover, unburnt fuel for any large scale fires to feed on. What he also said is there is a recent trend of hotter, dryer, longer lasting summers, which could lead to fires on a scale we haven't yet seen, and has them very very worried.

 

 

What has happened here in California is that two years ago, we got a fair amount of rain, esp. in the hills, which produced extra vegetation.

 

Then, a year ago, we had the dryest summer we've had in 130 years.

 

You can guess where I'm going with this, and you'd be right. All that extra vegetation became very very dry.

 

And now, it's burning.

 

But to go back to my other point, in areas where there are not people encroaching on the envirionment, such as national parks and forests, remote mountains, deserts, etc., there has not been an increase in fires.

 

So while I believe that global warming may contribute (and certainly doesn't help) these California fires, I believe that it is quite a minor contributor.

 

I agree with your point that since they jump on fires extra quickly, this can produce extra fuel for fires.

[Anderton]

I think we'll find that at least some of these fires were caused by "firebugs" / arsonists. As soon as the Santa Anas kick up, they start setting fires. And AFAIC, if you intentionally start a fire and someone dies, you should go to jail for life, with no possibility of parole.

I favor drawing and quartering in a public place, actually. But I guess for liberal softies like you , life in prison with no possibility of parole will work.

[Phil O'Keefe]

[Jeff da Weasel]

I favor drawing and quartering in a public place, actually. But I guess for liberal softies like you , life in prison with no possibility of parole will work.

Drawing and quartering is WAY too good for arsonists.

Man, when did I become such a hard ass?

[meccajay]

Again Ken, good points. I believe the forestry rep was commenting on the national trend of mega-fires, not just California. Yes, agreed that in California most of these fires are a simple combination of fuel, spark and wind....lot's and lots of wind.

The point I don't want missed is that globally/nationally, there seems to be a lot more at hand regarding newer trends that are very alarming. It seems very clear when we listen to people on the front lines of oceanography, forestry & ecology/climate studies. However, it's when politics/politicians come into the conversation things seem to get cloudy and we end up doing nothing.

[Kendrix]

If any of you left coasters at risk need a place to stay Ive got a spare room here in Rochester NY. FWIW- It's raining here today.
If you want to protect your recording gear my address is....
OK - nevermind.

Let us know ASAP if Mendocino Co. starts burning. If so it might be worth a trip out west just to breath that air.

These attempts at humor are obviously inadequate.

Good luck to you all.

[blue2blue]

 

I believe there is still that crazy old man living there that shoots at mountain bikers and claims they are trespassing on his land....which is false. There is a right of way there. I won't go to Silverado alone....too many evil things...murders, robbery...happen there.

 

 

I know you're joking but, believe it or not, when I was in high school (dinosaurs still roamed the earth) we used to go driving through the then-empty hills "ghost hunting" (I believe I may have seen the "old lady Modjeska" shade -- or else a little gray lady wandering the woods at 3:30 AM in 19th century garb -- I don't want to go too far out on that limb. I also saw what certainly appeared to be "ghost dogs" -- but then a coyote skulking around in the dark can look kinda ghostly. And disappear pretty quick, too.)

 

In those days there seemed plenty of mystery and romance in those now increasingly terraced and subdivided MacMansion hills.

 

 

I always kind of wanted to live in Silverado -- but while there might have been a few chances back 30 or 40 years ago, I don't think I could afford to rent a wood shed there, now.

 

There are some really glorious century-or-so old houses there... lots of stone work made from creekbed stones... and lots of beautiful old Craftsman style houses.

 

And though it's only 20 minutes up the ever-widening Santiago Canyon Road from Orange (and even closer to the ever-expanding greater Irvine/El Toro area) they actually get snow up there every once in a while and it can sit on the ground in the deep canyon shadows for days.

[meccajay]

Found the article/interview. A 60 minutes piece-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/18/60minutes/main3380176.shtml?source=RSSattr=SciTech_3380176

"Ten years ago, if you had a 100,000 acre fire, you were talking about a huge fire. And if we had one or two of those a year, that was probably unusual. Now we talk about 200,000 acre fires like it's just another day at the office. It's been a huge change," he says.

Asked what the biggest fires now are, Boatner says, "We

[Phil O'Keefe]

Let us know ASAP if San Bernadino Co. starts burning. If so it might be worth a trip out west just to breath that air.

 

Ontario, Lake Arrowhead / Green Valley Lake... San Bernardino Co. is already burning.

 

One good thing about the Santa Ana winds is that they usually cause the clearest skies we get all year. Of course, that's when there are not any fires. Air quality right now is complete crap due to the fires, but if they weren't burning, our air quality would be excellent (for a change). Having said that, the air quality in the SoCA area is significantly better today than it was in the 1960's / 1970's when I was a kid.

[UstadKhanAli]

Again Ken, good points. I believe the forestry rep was commenting on the national trend of mega-fires, not just California. Yes, agreed that in California most of these fires are a simple combination of fuel, spark and wind....lot's and lots of wind. The point I don't want missed is that globally/nationally, there seems to be a lot more at hand regarding newer trends that are very alarming. It seems very clear when we listen to people on the front lines of Oceanic, forestry & climate studies. However, it's when politics/politicians come into the conversation things seem to get cloudy and we end up doing nothing.

Thanks! Just so we're all clear, I've been only speaking of California, not about fires in general. I just happen to know a little bit about California. Happens when you live here...

I do definitely see your point about bizarre weather patterns, though, and the larger picture. There seems to be something quite amiss.

[UstadKhanAli]

I favor drawing and quartering in a public place, actually. But I guess for liberal softies like you , life in prison with no possibility of parole will work.

I think something harsher is in order. I'd recommend strapping someone to a chair and running "Meet The Parents" on an endless loop.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I think something harsher is in order. I'd recommend strapping someone to a chair and running "Meet The Parents" on an endless loop.

Ken, the USA doesn't condone torture or cruel and unusual punishment.

[meccajay]

Thanks! Just so we're all clear, I've been only speaking of California, not about fires in general. I just happen to know a little bit about California. Happens when you live here...

Yes, and it's California that matters right now! Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread or anything. I'll give myself the nightstick

You guys hang tough out there. Here's praying the winds stop tonight, and the fires very soon after that!

[blue2blue]

... I think we'll find that at least some of these fires were caused by "firebugs" / arsonists. As soon as the Santa Anas kick up, they start setting fires. And AFAIC, if you intentionally start a fire and someone dies, you should go to jail for life, with no possibility of parole.

 

 

I don't think we, as a society, should have the death penalty.

 

But we do... and since we do, I don't think there's the slightest reason why an arsonist who causes death and destruction should not be subjected to it.

 

Frankly, I'm not at all unsympathetic with the emotions behind Craig's presumably hyperbolic suggested punishment. I think drawing and quartering is just about right... but I think that sort of thing is very bad for the rest of us.

 

As a compromise... I'm willing to go with the fullest punishment allowed by current law for such a wanton, totally evil crime.

 

(Frankly, I'd almost be willing to give the death penalty for intentionally setting forest fires that don't kill any humans... but then, as many of you probably already suspect, I tend to find it easier to like animals than people.)