Malibu

[John Sayers]

Well, I'm back in my own house. It's still in one piece, the closest the fire got was about 3 miles away... just to the north of us. We were among the estimated 500k people living in mandatory evacuation areas... and we ended up at family in a part of San Diego not affected by the fire. First, thanks for everyone's kind words and prayers. Although this was a HUGE disaster, there was relatively low incidents of death or injury. That's a tribute to the co-operation of the residents to the directives of the police and fire depts. I have a couple of comments about the NO vs SD similarities and differences. First, as bad as this was, it was NOT a hurricane and flood. There was generally plenty of time for people to be alerted to the danger, pack a few things, and leave in an orderly way. Considering at least 250k people in SD were in mandatory evacuation zones the 8 to 10k that showed up at the Q were a small fraction of the folks that were displaced... the vast majority either staying with family or friends... or booked hotels here in SD or OC or whatever. Although the demographics of the fire areas were diverse, in MY area, "the witch fire", travelled through some of the most expensive homes in SD... From the horse farms of Ramona, through the upper middle class 4 and 5 bedroom homes in Rancho Bernardo, to the multi-million estates of Rancho Sante Fe... this was FAR from the 9th Ward. For the people that DID choose the Q or the dozens of other evacuation locations spread throughout the county... the large numbers of uneffected people and business really stepped up. At one point yesterday, they had to go on TV to tell people to STOP making donations at the Q. One reporter noted that there were nearly as many volunteers at the Q as there were displaced families. It really says alot for the "good" aspects of human nature that show themselves in emergency situations. Again, remember there was no flood, people mostly followed the instructions to stay home from work and school, and although there have been a couple of reports of looting... the feeling is that there's been very little. The truly sad part is what the people who lost their homes are going to be going through trying to rebuild their lives. Of course, it matters most that their families are safe... but note that the large fire in 2003 in SD took many people YEARS to get their lives back on track... in fact, just last week, the last people being assisted by the Salvation Army had finally moved into their rebuilt homes. 4 years later. Anyway, if you work in the trades... it's probably not a bad time to consider a relocation to SD... there's going to be 1,000+ homes that will be rebuilt... one at a time.

 

 

My heart goes out to all involved, I lost a house to fire so I know what they lost, and it's mainly all the personal things.

 

Michael - were you in Australia (the most fireprone country in the world) there would not have been mandatory evacuation. Our experience has shown that to stay with your house produces the best outcome and evacuation is only a last resort. Many homes have been saved by the owners controlling the burning embers that precede a firestorm that are usually responsible for the building eventually going up.

 

Our firefighters also treat fires differently than the US. We don't throw huge amounts of hardware at firestorms, it's useless, we work ahead of the fire and backburn to redirect it.

 

Unfortunately your fire departments aren't interested in our experience even though we've offered it. The US fire departments say Americans don't expect to be involved in protecting their homes, they expect the fire department to do it for them. A different philosophy I suppose.

[Lee Knight]

The US fire departments say Americans don't expect to be involved in protecting their homes, they expect the fire department to do it for them. A different philosophy I suppose.

 

 

That's interesting. I know that US firefighters frown upon people staying in their home after a mandatory evacuation is ordered. Here, a firefighters first duty is to protect life. FIRST. So they're adamant about not having to, if it's not necessary. Staying after the ordered evac slows the whole process down. Now the firefighter is busy saving the people in the home instead of the home itself.

 

Of course we still do get a lot of people not heeding the demand to leave. They stay behind and try their best to defend their homes. Frequently these people are having to be rescued shortly after by the fire crews.

 

The difference in philosophy is interesting.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Our firefighters also treat fires differently than the US. We don't throw huge amounts of hardware at firestorms, it's useless, we work ahead of the fire and backburn to redirect it.

 

 

Uhhhh... who told you that we don't do that, John?

 

I'm sorry, but apparently you've been fed some misinformation about the USA. We do backburn here. There was a lot of backburning done to fight our fire here. The climate and terrain here in SoCal is very similar to much of Australia, and we do use similar techniques to yours.

[blue2blue]

Some amazing photos in the LA Times today:

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-fires-users22oct22-pg,1,1212081.photogallery?coll=la-headlines-pe-california

 

[blue2blue]

 

Uhhhh... who told you that we don't do that, John? I'm sorry, but apparently you've been fed some misinformation about the USA. We do backburn here. There was a lot of backburning done to fight our fire here. The climate and terrain here in SoCal is very similar to much of Australia, and we do use similar techniques to yours.

 

 

Of course, it's very risky doing backburns in shifting winds and that's held back the use of this technique in these fires.

 

But they were certainly trying backburns in the Santiago fire earlier before the winds came back up.

[UstadKhanAli]

Uhhhh... who told you that we don't do that, John? I'm sorry, but apparently you've been fed some misinformation about the USA. We do backburn here. There was a lot of backburning done to fight our fire here. The climate and terrain here in SoCal is very similar to much of Australia, and we do use similar techniques to yours.

 

 

Backburning is a large part of what we do in California, along with clearing and all sorts of other techniques. We fortunately have some of the best people working on fires here, and what they do is nothing short of miraculous. I've seen how our fire departments work (sometimes, first-hand, unfortunately) and I think they're freakin' superhuman.

[Jeff da Weasel]

I'm such a little gremmie surfer at heart that the first thing I saw was, "Whoa, nice offshore break at the 'Bu!"

[blue2blue]

Wouldn't that be a shore break? That's what we would have called it back in my body surfing days in the 60s. Of course, a body surfer wouldn't even bother with something like that, since he'd end up in the trough in two seconds. And, of course, as hippies, we eschewed board surfing as decadent and bourgeois.

 

Actually, when I was looking at it I found myself thinking again of the very end of the 1955 Ralph Meeker-as-Mike Hammer movie of the Girl Killers.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Wouldn't that be a shore break?

Yes, unsurfable shore break. But pretty shape, due to the offshore. If it were three feet higher and 200 yards further out, I'd be all over it.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I was up all night doing mixes, and went outside at about 5:30 AM, and looked to the west, and saw a red, glowing ball in the sky. It threw me for a second, because it looked like the sun... but it was the moon. BRIGHT red / orange from the smoke.

[Jeff da Weasel]

BRIGHT red / orange from the smoke.

 

 

Yeah, the moon was a trip last night. A bunch of folks from my neighborhood were up on the hill behind my place, taking photos.

[John Sayers]

Jeff - I was just stating what a leading fireman was saying in an interview yesterday. He said that we had stopped mandatory evacuation years ago as we had found that homeowners working with the firemen produced the best outcome both in lives and properties saved.

BTW our rural fire service that performs all the work are volunteers. Every district has a volunteer fire brigade.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Well John, San Diego metro area has a population of almost three million people. I'm sure some of the policies that apply in different places are different for a reason.

[MichaelSaulnier]

Jeff - I was just stating what a leading fireman was saying in an interview yesterday. He said that we had stopped mandatory evacuation years ago as we had found that homeowners working with the firemen produced the best outcome both in lives and properties saved. BTW our rural fire service that performs all the work are volunteers. Every district has a volunteer fire brigade.

 

 

John,

 

In spite of the mandatory evacuation orders, many people, mainly the male homeowner, stayed to try to defend their property. Sometimes their efforts were very successful in those cases where it was mainly embers that were landing on their property or the property of their neighbors.

 

The local media had several reports and interview with people doing this... one man in a rural area saying: "You leave, and you may lose your house, you stay, and you may save it."

 

Sadly, homeowners with garden hoses were no match for the circumstance of being directly downwind, (60 to 100mph gusts) of a firewall up to 200 ft. high. There were reports of people defending their home to a point, but having to get away once the core of the fire approached too closely.

 

In some of these cases, even neighborhoods with firetrucks stationed in every driveway, and hoses positioned to protect the homes, had some homes lost to the oncoming firestorm.

 

I'm certain that a homeowner "assisting" would not have made a difference in these situations.

 

Considering the scope of the fire, the relative small number of injuries and deaths can certainly be attributed to a "save lives first" approach... and getting the majority of potential victims out of harm's way is a big part of this.

 

I personally, made sure my wife and kids were safely out of the danger zone, then I went back for a time to monitor my home. I wasn't really anticpating getting up on the roof with a hose, but wanted to be able to keep away any potential looters, and to decide if I needed to take more belongings than we originally packed... lots more pictures, personal effects, my guitars, etc.

 

Luckily, the fire stopped about 1.5 miles from my neighborhood, pushed past us in the high winds.

 

All of the city of San Diego is now allowed back home, and the remainder of the fire in our area is on county property outside city limits. It's still not more than 30 to 40% contained, but since the winds have subsided... it's just a matter of time. Sadly, more homes may be destroyed before it's all over.

 

The people that have lost their homes are in for a long ordeal, as you know from your experience... Hopefully all the help that's promised with be delivered!

[blue2blue]

Yes, unsurfable shore break. But pretty shape, due to the offshore. If it were three feet higher and 200 yards further out, I'd be all over it.

 

Ah... I get it. Sure. Body surfers don't seem to talk to each other about technique as much as board surfers. They can be an odd lot. (And, in case you didn't already know it, they can be witheringly contemptuous of board surfers. At least in my day.) While a nice shape is still significant to them and a source of aesthetic enjoyment, they're often looking for the bigger waves that a boardless surfer can get some mileage out of.

 

FWIW, my grandfather taught me how to bodysurf when I was a little kid down in Mission Beach, where the waves could get pretty muscular. I learned a little more finesse bodysurfing OC beaches, since you mostly had to work harder 'cause the waves were smaller. And I started using at least one fin because of the smaller waves.

 

BTW... I think it was 1968 when there were really nasty fires in the Cleveland forest in east OC. I remember body surfing after school one night down at Newport and the skies were orange, the setting sun blood red, and ashes like snow were filtering down through the sky and covering the surface of the water before sinking... It seemed somehow to be a sign of those times. For years it seemed like, as Jim Morrison would later say, the end was always near.

[2180]

Having seen a lot of the pictures of the homes in the areas affected, I'm just wondering how the building codes are adjusted for the possibility of fires? I know that the insurance rates go-up when something nasty happens and it looks like the pres. wants to kick-in some fed money for Cali.

I have been in an apartment complex for several years and we've had 3 fires and I would not wish-it on my worst enemy, and some things, like blow-torch wild-fires probably can't be stopped, but I noticed that there has been a building boom in San Diego and from what it looks like, the homes are packed together and of a conventional construction(?), just wondering.

[alphajerk]

anyone see the people who sprayed their homes with that foam via private firefighters?

[meccajay]

anyone see the people who sprayed their homes with that foam via private firefighters?

Yeah here's one of Jeffrey Katzenburgs private "brigade".




Story link here-
http://dhd.sfweekly.com/fire-threatening-malibus-deal-beach/

[UstadKhanAli]

 

The 2,200-acre blaze, driven by 50-mph winds, engulfs homes in Corral and Latigo canyons and forces the evacuation of thousands. A small fire in Ramona in San Diego County is quickly controlled.

 

By Bob Pool and Jason Song, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers

1:37 PM PST, November 24, 2007

 

As many as 35 structures have been destroyed and hundreds more are threatened in Malibu as a wind-driven fire raced through at least 2,200 acres today in Corral and Latigo canyons, forcing the evacuation of 10,000 to 14,000 people.

 

In early afternoon the blaze was still burning out of control, but firefighters were making a stand near Kanan Dume Road to stop the fire's northwestward march through steep, heavy brush.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fire25nov25,1,240230.story?coll=la-headlines-california

[Jeff da Weasel]

It looks really bad, this Malibu blaze, and in a bad location. Lots of homes got toasted by dawn this morning.

[UstadKhanAli]

Apparently, Flea's house got completely burned.

[UstadKhanAli]

The LA Times is saying that this is the worst Malibu fire in 15 years. Fortunately, the wind is "cooperating" and they have far more resources deployed.