My friendly letter to Southwest Airlines

[Jeff da Weasel]

I just try not to offend Canadians. You know how they are.

[MrKnobs]

This is a big part of what's wrong with America right here.

 

Why be so sensitive? Surely it's not this one thing that happened, is it? Could you be irritated by this due to something(s) that happened to you in life prior to this?

 

When I read your post, I considered for a moment whether you should have been offended. Then I thought, "If was on a flight from Brazil to Miami, and the attendant asked me if I speak Portuguese, would I have been offended?"

 

It was a simple question, no harm intended.

 

Terry D.

[fantasticsound]

I have to agree with zeronyne and Craig.

 

It was insulting and dangerous (in this instance) for the flight attendant to assume anyone in the aisle spoke English but certainly that she assumed some did and another did not based on their physical appearance.

 

I'm fed up with PC bs but I don't see this falling into that category. And I'm certainly Caucasian.

 

In a strange twist on Gus' story of traveling with his Uruguayan friend, my wife has often overheard conversations by latinos who assume the white woman doesn't know any more spanish than "s

[fantasticsound]

This is a big part of what's wrong with America right here. Why be so sensitive? Surely it's not this one thing that happened, is it? Could you be irritated by this due to something(s) that happened to you in life prior to this? When I read your post, I considered for a moment whether you should have been offended. Then I thought, "If was on a flight from Brazil to Miami, and the attendant asked me if I speak Portuguese, would I have been offended?" It was a simple question, no harm intended. Terry D.

 

I respect most of what you post, Terry, but that comparison is simply ridiculous. The level of deliberate and ignorant prejudice blacks, hispanics, asians and others are forced to deal with on a regular basis in the U.S. is cause to fight these slights or deliberate insults with some kind of response. There is no way for you to understand what it is to be assaulted in subtle and overt ways by a large number of strangers everywhere you go.

 

Imagine the response if zeronyne had broached this subject onboard. That would likely have created a real problem for 'nyne and/or the flight attendant. His response to determine the company's official position and what they intend to do about this situation is professional and appropriate, IMO.

[UstadKhanAli]

I personally don't see how this is a "PC" discussion. Zeronyne got singled out. It's not like he's frothing at the mouth over this, he's simply writing a letter and asking what their official position is. Also, consider that some of us might get a little tired of living in our own country but made to feel like we're different. It'd be appropriate if other people tried to be a bit more inclusive instead of singling an individual out or come at someone laden with assumptions. I mean, there's obviously far more insulting thing that a flight attendant could do, so I think Zeronyne's simple letter is an appropriately calm response.

 

The attendant could have asked everyone in the row if they spoke English...for the reason that Craig suggests as well as an effective, polite method of getting information from everyone without singling someone out. And failing that, she could simply begin by speaking English to someone to determine if they speak English or not.

 

BTW, I've met plenty of Canadians who get cheesed off when they are asked if they are Americans when traveling overseas.

[Gus Lozada]

BTW, I've met plenty of Canadians who get cheesed off when they are asked if they are Americans when traveling overseas.

 

I guess Boosh would get seriously offended if he was called "german" either

 

 

... and do not ever call me "guatemalan" or anything like that

 

(just kidding)

[Anderton]

I always thought you were Lozadamalan. My bad!

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Yeah, you Nicaraguans don't seem to like that...

[Lee Knight]

My Brit wife gets asked if she's Australian every other day. Or... "Kiwi? Not Australian. Kiwi! Right?!??!"

 

My Mexican American buddy gets shouted at when Caucasians assume he doesn't speak English. The fact is he doesn't speak Spanish. I guess shouting helps in translating?

 

When in Japan, the locals thought I was going to eat their children. They had that look of suspicion. And in reality, I was just their to deflower their legal aged daughters.

 

When in Baja, I'm seen by the locals as a big $.

 

Prejudice is all around us. Sometimes it takes the form of hatred and malice. Other times it is simply innocent ignorance.

[Jeff da Weasel]

One thing I've found fascinating about this thread are the folks who've jumped in to tell Zeronyne how he should feel about this situation. Obviously (to me anyway), if he felt like he was being singled out based on his race, that's something that needs to be brought to the attention of the entity that was responsible.

 

Also obvious to me is the ridiculousness of folks who claim that they'd feel differently, when only a small percentage of you have ever been in a position to experience those feelings (Gus, our house Mexican, excepted).

 

"This is what's wrong with America", Terry? I'm sure I can think of fifty things wrong with America before getting to oversensitivity. Whether white folks like it or not, we live in a place where within the last couple hundred years, we've been responsible for some atrocious {censored}, and then we call minorities oversensitive when they raise questions about disturbing patterns of behavior.

 

If anything's wrong with America, perhaps it's the defensive attitude when asked to acknowledge the events of the past and act accordingly.

[Super 8]

I never fly. I prefer to drive, so I wasn't aware of the Exit row rule. Given that, I agree with Craig that the attendant should have asked everyone. But I don't consider asking someone if they speak English to be offensive. Especially on a flight, I'd imagine you get international passengers all the time. It's not like she assumed since 0-9 was Asian that he therefore must know Karate and be a wiz at math. But I do have a problem with her not asking everyone and just assuming.

 

Now what would be interesting would be to talk to her and find out how often she has asked that question of Caucasians and been told 'yes', and asked that question of non-Caucasians and been told 'no'.

 

Mostly that people don't ever like being treated differently based on any physical aspect of their appearance.

 

People don't want to have limitations or definitions placed upon them because of their appearance. That doesn't mean they don't want to be treated differently. They may want special accommodations under certain circumstances.

 

Women don't want to pee in the same room with the guys

Blind people might want a menu in brail

Non-english speaker might want an interpreter, and so on.

 

 

I think folks from the Midwest often have the most trouble with this, because so much of the population is of one race/religion/background in one area. Here in Los Angeles, we have the highest racial diversity in the nation, so from day one, you're used to seeing all kinds of different people mixed together in the same place.

 

mmmkay. Well, maybe it's that West coasters just assume they're more enlightened than us backward folk in the fly-over states???

I don't think I'm all that atypical of Midwesterners. I've got Chicago roughly an hour SE of me. I spent 4+ years at a University living among a large Indian/Asian and to a lesser degree, black population. True, the Midwest is a pretty big area, but I've traveled much of it and you meet all kinds. I can't imagine it's much different from anywhere else. There are those who only see what is different from them, and those who don't.

 

None of it has made me walk on eggshells around anyone, though. I guess most of the stuff about treating people how I'd like to be treated has mostly been second nature to me, so I really never worry about it, and have never had a problem in this regard.

 

Right. So why would you need sensitivity training? It's all golden rule stuff. I took required class in college on sensitivity. It was insulting. It was a total guilt dump on white people. Yeah, I'm white. I can't help what some other white folks have done. All I can do is control my own behavior.

We all know not to stereotype people. And as for those who have a mindset that puts people in boxes and labels them, my experience has taught me that know amount of "training" is going to change their minds. Actually, it seems to have the reverse affect.

[Super 8]

 

Whether white folks like it or not, we live in a place where within the last couple hundred years, we've been responsible for some atrocious {censored}, and then we call minorities oversensitive when they raise questions about disturbing patterns of behavior.

 

 

Where do you get this "we" crap? I haven't done anything to anyone. Nobody in my family and no one I know has hurt anyone. How am I responsible?

I read about violence among low income blacks in my local paper everyday. I happen to work with a lot of black people, most of whom don't have much money. I don't go around check to make sure my wallet is still there, or worrying if my car has been stolen.

 

You just got done telling me about judging people based on appearance, and now because I happen to be white I'm somehow responsible for some atrocious {censored}. Gimme a break, dude!

 

There's another thread here about how people see Americans. There are all of these assumptions about us. And here are all of these Americans jumping up and saying; "No, we're just like everyone else! There's a diversity!". Which is it, Jeff?

[boosh]

 

 

 

 

Man that don't get me offended at all.

Germans,Dutch,Swedish,.... we all are from the same tribe,...we look alike and with a little effort we can understand eachothers language....

 

What offends me is the fact that Because I'm a tall blond blue eyed Dutch guy people always assume I'm prejudiced,.. a racist and some even get mad at me because our ancestors,...(not mine - they were farmers) took people from Africa and killed Native Americans.

 

The frikkin whining and complaining of women and minorities have led to a positive discrimination in my country,...which means that Minority groups and females have more chance to get some jobs because otherwise they feel discriminated.

 

And now here I am, 36 years old and perfectly healthy but with only 20 hours a week work because the government told companies to give more jobs to others.

 

Now who's discriminated here?

 

Is this the fault of the minorities or women? No,...

 

Am I prejudiced? No,...

 

I asked Jeff Kloppmeyer once if he was Jewish,... was that because I hate jews? No,... It was because I was just curious.

 

What gets me sooooo tired is that every time a caucasian asks something or does something that can be explained a little bit differently Colored people or people from other races are immideatly offended and think it's because we are racists or prejudiced.

 

I HATE TWO THINGS IN LIFE!

 

1) RACISM

2) PEOPLE FROM SOUTH AMERICA

[Lee Knight]

You are a sage Boosh. I love it.

[Geoff Grace]

You know, with threads like this there are really two subjects: our friend and the issue that upset our friend.

 

The knee jerk response in forum culture is to respond to the issue. We discuss issues in almost every thread. Our interest in discussing issues is part of what brought us here in the first place.

 

But when a friend is upset, perhaps we should set aside our desire to discuss the issue for once and focus on our friend's needs. I believe that zeronyne was hoping for our support, and I think he left disappointed and more frustrated than when he arrived.

 

Even though many people here disagreed with his reason for being upset, it's still possible to support a friend with whom you disagree. I'm sure none of us was happy to see zeronyne in pain over this incident. I'd bet it would help to express sympathy in cases like this, so that our friend can feel emotionally supported whether we support him on the issue at hand or not.

 

Even if we feel compelled to address the issue as well, we can still at least say, "Regardless of whether I agree with you about this, you're my friend and I have sympathy for your frustration about this" or something to that effect.

 

Anyway, that's my suggestion, which as always, you're free to take or leave.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Jeff da Weasel]

You sure sound kinda defensive there, Super.

[slight-return]

 

You know, with threads like this there are really two subjects: our friend and the issue that upset our friend.

 

 

 

I might be neither fish nor foul on it

 

I thought the post was an RFC for the letter, so I commented on it as "editor" -- not really abt the issue, not really about "support of friend" (that entanglement can compromise the editting process)

 

I was thinking and commenting in a "does the style/content match the author's stated theme?" frame of mind

 

 

I suppose lending that sort of help might be in the "support of a friend" vein.

 

On the gripping hand, those lending their perspective to the issue could feel their contributions are support as well (giving alternative reads on the subject, sharing their experiences, all that) -- dunno, motive and disposition can get fractal (I mean we're starting to look and motive and disposition of the participants in a discussion about motive and dispositin of others...and so does the dance continue)

[boosh]

 

I believe that zeronyne was hoping for our support, and I think he left disappointed and more frustrated than when he arrived.

 

 

I never saw him ask for support anywhere in the thread. He just made his point and posted a letter he mailed to an airline company.

 

I'm sorry if he feels bad but he knew there's all kinds of people here with different opinions.

 

Leaving dissapointed and more frustrated typicals the overall mood he set in his letter.

 

People are biased and everywhere in the world racism and prejudice will be there to stay.

 

We have evolved from small tribes all over the world and it's only been since the last 2000 years all tribes got to know eachother.

 

Eventhough it is very natural for us today to speak to and see people of other color and races daily a 100 years ago this was still very different. Our brains have adapted to that very quickly our genes however still think people from other tribes are here to kill you, your kids steal your stuff and rape your wife.

 

racism is merely a way to deal with our fears for people or cultures that are not of our own kin.

[slight-return]

There's actually some cool neuropsych around that

 

IIRC Whalen out of Dartmouth did some neat fMRI stuff on amygdala response to in/out racial group facial photos

[MrKnobs]

I respect most of what you post, Terry , but that comparison is simply ridiculous. The level of deliberate and ignorant prejudice blacks, hispanics, asians and others are forced to deal with on a regular basis in the U.S. is cause to fight these slights or deliberate insults with some kind of response. There is no way for you to understand what it is to be assaulted in subtle and overt ways by a large number of strangers everywhere you go..

 

It's in no way demeaning to ask someone if they speak English, it's a simple question.

 

As a previous poster said, speaking English or not isn't a social ranking. Yours (and the OPs) assumption is that it's somehow an insult if you don't speak English; it's not.

 

Everyone needs to get over themselves a bit. We've come a long way from segregated drinking fountains and internment camps for Japanese Americans. Being asked if you speak English is a ridiculous thing to get upset over.

 

If this is the worst "racial profiling" the OP has experienced, he should talk to some people who have experienced REAL racial profiling - like not being able to get a cab in parts of NYC or being pulled over by the cops for "driving while black."

 

Terry D.

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

Being asked if you speak English is a ridiculous thing to get upset over.

 

 

Okay, so answer me this: why was he asked that? Have you ever been asked that?

[Lee Knight]

 

Okay, so answer me this: why was he asked that? Have you ever been asked that?

 

 

 

Because he's Asian and the attendant has encountered a lot of Asian people that don't speak English in her line of work. That's sort of the reality, you know?

[gearmike]

 

Because he's Asian and the attendant has encountered a lot of Asian people that don't speak English in her line of work. That's sort of the reality, you know?

 

 

That's kinda my assumption too.

 

Did she ask the question in a condescending matter?

 

Or are you saying that the question is inherently condescending?

 

-Mike

[Lee Flier]

 

It's in no way demeaning to ask someone if they speak English.

 

 

No it isn't, but as has been pointed out several times, the question being asked wasn't the issue.

 

I'm a lot more inclined to just laugh at people's ignorance and cultural gaffes than zeronyne is in this situation, but I might still have written to the powers that be to let them know that everyone should've been asked if they speak English, which is supposed to be how it works for safety reasons, as Craig pointed out.

[UstadKhanAli]

I seem to be sort of in between the more polarized opinions. I can see how someone might get upset because it doesn't feel good to be singled out for physical appearances. There's some things that might like little things to many, but when you are Asian and the little things start adding up, it can often not feel really good. As a fellow Asian, I can fully understand why someone would feel this way.

 

At the same token, it really doesn't seem like it was a purposeful slight at all, so that should be taken into consideration.

 

At any rate, I think we could all give some consideration to Geoff's post and realize that regardless of what our opinions are, someone we like feels like he got singled out and didn't feel good about it.