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My friendly letter to Southwest Airlines

zeronyne

By zeronyne
in Sound, Stage, and Studio

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Jeff da Weasel Newbie

Jeff da Weasel

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Because he's Asian and the attendant has encountered a lot of Asian people that don't speak English in her line of work. That's sort of the reality, you know?



Sure! So, since her line of work involves people from traveling from one place to another, what are the percentages that a caucasian person might use German, French, Russian, Romanian, or otherwise as their language? Or is English the worldwide language of whiteys? :D

Again: I have no problem with Zeronyne being asked if he spoke English. But that attendant had better ask the rest of the folks as well, not just the slanty-eyed ones, or brown ones, and so on. :)

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slight-return Newbie

slight-return

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So, since her line of work involves people from traveling from one place to another, what are the percentages that a caucasian person might use German, French, Russian, Romanian, or otherwise as their language?

 

 

goo question, difficult question with the data we have - could be largely dependent on the hitch she runs - wed need a better breakdown of her routes to get a good probability calc

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Lee Knight Rookie

Lee Knight

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At any rate, I think we could all give some consideration to Geoff's post and realize that regardless of what our opinions are, someone we like feels like he got singled out and didn't feel good about it.



I agree with you here Ken. :thu: I do think it sucks to be singled out for your appearance. I had a lady I didn't know tell me I should have a hat on outside... to say I'm thinning up top would be an understatement. :) She meant no harm. And I'm constantly making jokes about my chrome dome and yet... I didn't like it.

It didn't make sense that I didn't like it but you're right Ken. It isn't pleasant.

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Jeff da Weasel Newbie

Jeff da Weasel

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best just to move on past them without turning a ripple into a big angry wave.
:)



I tend to agree, usually. But then, burying things don't make them go away, either. I'm rather enjoying this discussion, but not if it's at Zeronyne's expense or comfort.

First and foremost, he's my friend, both inside and outside this and other forums. If he felt imposed upon by the flight attendant (note how she's not a "stewardess" anymore, BTW), then I'll support him. And perhaps I should stop talking about this, since matters of race tend to make folks uncomfortable, and maybe Zeronyne would prefer it be dropped, so I shall.

Last word: as someone who looks white but actually has a mixed racial makeup, I get the opposite side of Zeronyne's treatment... people assume they can be racist around me and get me to join in, more often than you'd imagine. I've come to enjoy seeing the looks on folks' faces when I let them know what my background is after awhile of their tossing around the N word. Hee hee! Good times.

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Super 8 Newbie

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But when a friend is upset, perhaps we should set aside our desire to discuss the issue for once and focus on our friend's needs. I believe that
zeronyne
was hoping for our support, and I think he left disappointed and more frustrated than when he arrived.

 

 

Well first, this is an interesting subject that people have strong views on. And, in this forum at least, we have the ability to discuss difficult subjects without resorting to silly name calling and screaming rants. I think that's rare on the internet.

 

But you're right about 0-9. I'd consider him a fellow forumite, although I don't think he hangs out here as much as he used. And I do miss his contributions.

 

Despite the fact that I think he's overreacting, and I don't agree with others that his letter to the airline was a calm request for an official position, I do feel compassion toward his frustration. And I do agree with him, much the way Craig has agreed with him.

 

However, 0-9 is a big boy, and I doubt that he came here for our pity. I think he's gotten support, but not everyone agrees entirely with his reaction. That's an honest response. What more could you ask from your friends?

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MrKnobs Rookie

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Okay, so answer me this: why was he asked that? Have you ever been asked that?

 

 

No, 'cause I look like I'd speak English.

 

However, I've been asked if I speak Spanish many times. Should I get bent about that? I don't look like I'd speak Spanish. In Mexico there are MANY people who look as "American" as me yet were born in Mexico. Should they be offended if someone asks them if they speak Spanish?

 

This getting upset about things that have no malice in them is freakin' ridiculous. Everyone over the age of 7 (maybe younger) knows damn well when something is said with hate or anger and when the same words or questions are innocent.

 

If you want to be mad at me, be mad at me for this:

 

PROFILING MAKES SENSE AND IT'S HUMAN NATURE.

 

Yeah, you read that right. Don't we ALL judge people by their appearance or ethnicity to some extent? Aren't you a little more worried by some scruffy looking possibly gangbanger guy behind you at night in the ATM line, compared to some obvious yuppie in a suit? That's only common sense.

 

In the absence of information about a person we all make assumptions about them. This is very human and not a problem until it causes us to treat the other person badly or until we become unwilling to abandon our assumptions as we learn more about the person.

 

In this case, the flight attendant made the assumption that the two whitebread dudes must speak English and maybe the Asian looking guy did not. Remember that this happened on an AIRPLANE at an AIRPORT where there are frequently lots of people from other countries present. She was just making sure the Asian guy spoke English. For all we know, she'd already heard the other two guys speaking, we don't know, and neither does the OP.

 

Whatever the case might have been, a simple reply of "You bet!" or, perhaps humorously, "Why do you ask?" would have got the job done with no need for taking offense.

 

I seriously worry for our country as we make big deals about silly crap like this while grievous problems go unattended.

 

Terry D.

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Billster Newbie

Billster

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Your arguments are full of holes.

 

 

I seriously worry for our country as we make big deals about silly crap like this while grievous problems go unattended.


Terry D.

 

 

I don't know that 09 is making a big deal, but like I said earlier the flight attendant represents the company. Is the company training people to ask the language question based on physical appearance? Or is the individual (identified as well as possible) being careless and forgetting the proper training? And if they forget to ask an important question of everyone regarding the emergency exit, are they forgetting other training about things that may be even more critical?

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MrKnobs Rookie

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Exactly what does an English speaking person look like? If you were in Finland, do you think that because you are Caucasian, you would look like you spoke Finnish? The original point was that one can't make assumptions, and assuming a white person speaks English is wrong.

 

 

It's wrong to assume 100% that a white person in an airplane in a US city speaks English, that's true. So if you need to be 100% sure that someone speaks any language you have to ask them - can't argue with you there.

 

And no, that was NOT the original point. The original point was, and is, whether one should be upset by a simple, non-offensive question. The OP didn't write a letter concerned with flight safety, he wrote a letter about assumptions based on his ethnicity.

 

 

There's so many problems with that comparison, I don't know where to go. Clothing and scruffiness are choices. How does a black person, or a person of Asian heritage put on a Caucasian suit?

 

 

Being Latino is not a choice. A Latino guy with a rag on his head, t-shirt and jeans standing behind you in East LA has a slightly higher probability of being in a gang that some white guy in a suit. Doesn't mean the Latino guy will rob you and the suit guy won't, but you know we all make that profile.

 

 

Which means that the other people (who were not asked about language) could easily have been travelers from other countries.

 

 

Yes, but so what? We aren't arguing if the flight attendant did her job perfectly, I think we'd all agree she did not. We are discussing whether our Asian friend should take offense at being asked if he speaks English, and I say it's no big deal. For me, it passes the test of "...would *I* be offended if..."

 

The answer FOR ME is I would not, not because I can't imagine it but because I'm an easy going guy who is very slow to take offense at things that clearly weren't meant to be offensive by the person doing or saying them.

 

You and the OP (not meaning to judge), seem from your comments as if you are not so easy going. And if that *is* the case, I suggest you work on getting over it because otherwise life is going to be one great big irritation for you and everyone around you until you do so.

 

 

Speaking of assumptions, you assume that that's not what happened, with 09 making a mental note to tell someone up the company ladder that he was singled out.

 

 

*shrug*

 

I don't know what 09 said to the attendant, but what I do know (from his post) is that it upset him enough to write a letter. So, perhaps he did make a friendly remark, I dunno. If he did, the point is not to FEIGN not being offended, but to actually NOT be offended.

 

And I'll bet dollars to donuts that the OP didn't even consider the possibility that the attendant had already heard the two guys speak English.

 

 

I don't know that 09 is making a big deal, but like I said earlier the flight attendant represents the company. Is the company training people to ask the language question based on physical appearance? Or is the individual (identified as well as possible) being careless and forgetting the proper training? And if they forget to ask an important question of everyone regarding the emergency exit, are they forgetting other training about things that may be even more critical?

 

 

Oh please! I will reread the original post but I don't think the OP's concern was for flight safety.

 

Again, I mean NO OFFENSE to anyone here but I simply disagree with taking offense at what happened and think the world would be a far better place if we'd all reserve our anger for serious problems.

 

Terry D.

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daklander Newbie

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Hey, Zeronyne you don't suppose the reason you were the only who was asked about the ability to speak and understand English is because you were the only one who looked fit enough to open the damned door if there was a problem do you? ;)

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fantasticsound Newbie

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...Again, I mean NO OFFENSE to anyone here but I simply disagree with taking offense at what happened and think the world would be a far better place if we'd all reserve our anger for serious problems.


Terry D.

 

 

There's a common fallacy and an assumption in that line of reasoning.

 

The fallacy is that 09 is running a zero sum on concern, indignation and possibly anger over injustice in the world. You assume he won't speak out on world hunger, education or the death penalty (for examples..) because he chooses to write a letter addressing his mistreatment on an airplane?

 

I hate to restate what should be obvious to anyone in the U.S. whether they've traveled by plane in the last 6 - 7 years or not, but airline travel has become something of a bad joke.. Well, it would be a joke if passengers haven't been subject to intense security precautions, then jerked around being forced to stay aboard jets on the ground with no food for 5+ hours at a time. A system that has been in place for at least the past 3 decades and they haven't figured out better ways to handle these and other issues that start at mere inconvenience and occasionally rise to outright dangerous situations. The airline industry is out of control and attempts to address all these issues continue to be talking points for politicians whose ideas never quite make it out of Congress.

 

So here comes zeronyne, perhaps one of the most traveled people on airlines in the U.S., someone who suffers these inconveniences on a regular basis and he's singled out simply for his race and you don't think it rates some response??

 

Again, some of your arguements have some merit but the bottom line is this is a serious issue for those who suffer the indignity. As previously mentioned, several of your statements indicate you have no clue what it is to be discriminated against. There's always someone who never had to deal with such things who is quick to say, "Lighten up". In this case that would be you.

 

And though I believe you when you say you mean no offense to anyone here, it is offensive for you to suggest 09 is being oversensitive about the situation. You're effectively telling him how to feel.

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