Xaviere XV500 vs. Agile AL-3000

[Nephilim-777]

Well, they are techinically GFS. It just seems like they're an older version. I guess it's possible that the pups date back to when the guitars were assembled, and GFS has since updated. It is a little misleading. I don't think I like my guitar any less.

 

 

I don't know, when he said OEM, I take that to mean they where made to be like GFS pups but are from another manufacture. These are obviously not the same as the retail one. I liken this to Duncan designed pups.

[IRG]

I've been watching this thread for some time now. My take on it is that the Fat Paf pickups that are sold now, are different from what they originally used to be. When the changes were made, I don't know. The Xaviere that is being sold is advertised with GFS Fat Paf pickups in it. Technically they may have been, if these were the original designed pickups. However, other Xaviere guitars are also sold, with similar GFS pickups in them, that are the current versions (and have GFS stamped on them).

So this one model XV-500 I think it is, is not sold with the current Fat Paf pickup, even though it clearly says GFS Fat Paf in the advertising. I do think this is misleading, if not illegal. Illegal because clearly the pups in it, are not the same ones as what you get when you buy them separately. I think Jay should (and he has stepped forward I guess) give owners of this model a set of real Fat Pafs.

He should also replace all of the pickups in the current guitar being advertised with the Fat Paf pickups when they are not really.

GFS has become bigger in part because of this forum. Certainly it would be exist without this forum, but there are many customers here who have found and purchased GFS stuff because of this forum, and because of the excellent customer service. It can go both ways though.

If forumites here feel there is a bait and switch going on, or anything that seems a bit unethical we'll stop shopping. And we'll stop telling our friends too. It's a slippery slope - I think anyone can make a mistake and recover if they do the right thing. Which GFS has done, it part. Now finish it up, and take out these fake Fat Pafs and put in the real thing.

I've been contemplating getting a new set of '59/Fat Pafs but this news has made me uneasy. There are plenty of other choices out there...

[Nephilim-777]

I had an XV-700, but it had several cosmetic flaws and I didn't purchase it this way. It was returned, but GF did offer to refund enough money to make it a blem purchase. They sold out of the red XV-700's, so a non-blemmed replacement wasn't possible.

I now have an AL-3000 on order and am awaiting delivery next week. I cannot compare the tones because I never plugged in the XV-700 and this was a 700 and not the 500 as the OP is requesting information on. I am expecting to replace the pups on the AL with a Duncan Distortion bridge and a '59 or Pearly Gates at the neck with possible coil splits. I will try it stock, but not expecting miracles.

I was considering putting a GFS crunchy and Fat PAF in there, but the reviews are inconsistent and now I know why. There are at least 6 revisions of the Fat PAF's and there may even be some OEM's thrown into the mix. It seems that my only safe choice is to get the Duncan

[d_dave_c]

This is pretty disconcerting to me. They go to great length to mention that their baseplates are all stamped GFS and the marketitng info says 'genuine' GFS pickups are used on the guitars. OEM versions of the pickups aren't 'genuine' GFS pickups. The Duncan Designed:Seymour Duncan comparison is pretty spot on.

 

I'm wiring up my LP copy with Crunchy PAF's tonight. This will be my first GFS experience. Looking forward to it from what I've read and heard on these boards.

[Nephilim-777]

I'm wiring up my LP copy with Crunchy PAF's tonight. This will be my first GFS experience. Looking forward to it from what I've read and heard on these boards.

 

 

I'd be interested in your opinion on the Crunchy PAF.

[Guitarfetish]

Guys-

 

Just back into town- Could not post while I was away.

 

LOOK- These have GFS FAT PAFS inthem- Every one of them.

 

When we designed these guitars this is what we had for pickups- Cool Alnico 5 pickups, coil splittable. We ordered an assload and sent them to our factory in Korea where they were integrated into the guitars.

 

Since that time we've upgraded the retail versions, but the OEM versions in the guitars ARE FAT PAFS-

 

Not disingenuous, not a little white lie- It's the {censored}ing truth.

 

Yes the retail versions do sound better IMHO- but the orignials sound great too.

 

We've sold THOUSANDS of these guitars and have HUNDREDS of rave reviews from people who are gigging with them every night.

 

The beauty of theinternet is the few people who have beefs for whatever reason can air them here.

 

I offered to swap out the shelltops guy just cause it's an expensive guitar- even sold below cost. But trust me- the 700's and 500's sound EXCELLENT- and I think they blow away anything else for the money.

 

Our new 07 line will come stock with good ceramic pickups- and you can custom order them with ANY GFS set at the time of purchase!

[lowbrow]

But trust me- the 700's and 500's sound EXCELLENT..

 

 

IMHO, the 900's do too. I put some TV Jones in mine, but am seriously considering dropping the stock ones back in it. If it wasn't such a pain in the ass, I would've done it by now.

[DeathCrow]

I feel way better now. My XV-500 sounds killer with the pickups it came with. Just didn't like the idea that maybe I didn't have real GFS pups in it but thanks Jay for setting the record straight. It would be a shame if this thread took any respect or integrity away from GuitarFetish. Trust me when I say I love my X. X not ex.

[Nephilim-777]

Our new 07 line will come stock with good ceramic pickups- and you can custom order them with ANY GFS set at the time of purchase!

Awesome idea!

[Oaksong]

Can you guys add a 24 fret superstrat? Preferably with 2 humbuckers? That would be awesome.

[Caesar]

Guys- Just back into town- Could not post while I was away. LOOK- These have GFS FAT PAFS inthem- Every one of them. When we designed these guitars this is what we had for pickups- Cool Alnico 5 pickups, coil splittable. We ordered an assload and sent them to our factory in Korea where they were integrated into the guitars. Since that time we've upgraded the retail versions, but the OEM versions in the guitars ARE FAT PAFS- Not disingenuous, not a little white lie- It's the {censored}ing truth. Yes the retail versions do sound better IMHO- but the orignials sound great too. We've sold THOUSANDS of these guitars and have HUNDREDS of rave reviews from people who are gigging with them every night. The beauty of theinternet is the few people who have beefs for whatever reason can air them here. I offered to swap out the shelltops guy just cause it's an expensive guitar- even sold below cost. But trust me- the 700's and 500's sound EXCELLENT- and I think they blow away anything else for the money. Our new 07 line will come stock with good ceramic pickups- and you can custom order them with ANY GFS set at the time of purchase!

 

 

Thanks for replying to the thread. I still love playing my 700. One of the most comfortable guitars I have.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

I'd like to read the hundreds of reviews from guitarist gigging with these pickups...Seriously is this a hidden review site? Because the reviews on this site doesn't have that many and very few from "gigging guitarists".

 

If I was too gig with the pups that came in my guitar, my band would fire me..(-8

[Kitarist]

lol

[s3_buell]

Rather than lumping several pickups under one name, V1, V2, V3, V4... are labels that would let the customers that feel they have been deceived know what they are considering in the future.

 

The future GFS pickup reviews here would also have some meaning since, as of this disclosure, nobody knows which pickup was reviewed previously. Is it possible to determine which FAT PAF one has in hand?

 

Does this situation exist for other models too?

 

I thought I read that one could order a guitar with a different GFS pickup already? Can one purchase a "vastly improved" Xaviere guitar with the most "refined" Fat PAF (V7?) installed instead of the similar to a first generaion FAT GFS pickup at this time?

[mikesr1963]

Xaviere XV500

[ChihliDog]

Jay, let me lay it out to you, man.

 

I just bought an XV-500. I like it, it seems well built. It sounds good. It plays decent. Not GREAT, but pretty well. It looks fantastic.

 

BUT - and I dont say this to be a prick, I am just being brutally honest. I feel that you ADVERTISED the GFS fat PAF pups in it, and I would expect that they would be the same pickups you sell on your website. Now we find out they ARENT.

 

You did not advertise mine as a blem, and there ARE a few blems in mine.

 

I do not feel like I got ripped off. I sepnt 300 bucks on a GOOD guitar. Not mind boggling, but GOOD. Certainly worth the money. On the FLIP side of that, I DO feel I was somewhat mislead. Youve made it quite clear that you go over these guitars really well. If someone looked at my guitar for a moment, the 2 spots would have been obvious. I wouldnt think twice about them if there wasnt such a big deal made about how you guys go over them so well, and any tiny tiny flaw is marketed as a blem.

 

Secondly, knowing that the pickups arent what you sell on your website hurts the resale value of the guitar I purchased from you. It sounds REALLY good. But if I ever sell, I will not be able to hilight "GFS Fat PAF pups", because that isnt what they are, theyre not the current ones sold on your site.

 

I dont feel like I was ripped off, because I got a good guitar for the money. I DO feel that we were somewhat decieved. Point being, if you didnt advertise this thing with the GFS pickups or make a big deal about the eyes going over the finish, I wouldnt bat an eye at what I received. Hell, even the 2 spots on the guitar wouldnt bug me, if I hadnt found out about this pickup situation. It comes down to being completely REAl about what you sell. I woulda bought it anyway had it not advertised FAT PAFS.

 

In the long run, it prolly isnt a big deal to MOST people, but even a few hundred bucks is a lot to ME. I make decisions very carefully when buying even a budget guitar, because finances are tight. Part of my decision to buy a Xaviere WAS because of the pickups. Now I find out they arent exactly what we were lead to believe.

 

I have to say, since Im making this post anyway, that I was really turned of by your attitude in a thread where a guy asked what was in stock or not. One of the guitars on your site said "IN STOCK"...the rest didnt. That WOULD lead ME, and I would bet a lot of others, to think that the ones that DIDNT say "IN STOCK" were NOT. I pointed that out, and your reply was something along the lines of "this isnt rocket science". True enough, but common sense would tell most people that you only had ONE model in stock. You acted like we were dumb for thinking that. It's just not good business, IMO.

 

I think you sell a good guitar for the price, man. But dont OVER hype it. It just leads to disappointment. I hope I dont sound like a jerk by saying this stuff...I wish you and GFS well. I think you have a good thing going. But to find out that we didnt buy EXACTLY what we thought we were buying, ...well, you see the pint, I hope.

 

Good luck, bro.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

Very well said and you didn't sound like a jerk. Just an upset customer.

I feel very similar as you do about the purchase of my XV-700. It's a nice guitar but not "Hand Crafted" nor was mine gone over very well. It was a blem but the blems were minimal, but the lack of attention assembling and setting up the guitar was a bit lacking. I also saw the Fat PAFs as being a plus on getting the Xaviere over another similar guitar.

I do feel little dupped by GF. But I do like my guitar. Seeing how Jay addresses these situations and talks to his customers, I don't think I'll continue to purchase from Guitar Fetish unless I see changes for the better.

[jrockbridge]

I found this thread a bit late. I ordered my XV700 Tuesday. They haven't shipped it, yet. Nothing like getting buyers remorse before your guitar has arrived.

[DeathCrow]

I found this thread a bit late. I ordered my XV700 Tuesday. They haven't shipped it, yet. Nothing like getting buyers remorse before your guitar has arrived.

Don't FEEL REMORSE! These are amazing guitars with great tone. I won't say mine is perfect but you won't be dissappointed once you get her dialed in.
Maybe I can get a clip together to show what it sounds like with whatever version of pickups are in it:)

[LeftyTom]

The Agile root beer finish leaves the gaudy Xavierre orange in the dustbin.

[IRG]

Well said Chili. I don't think you are a jerk or a prick for saying how you feel. And I think Jay will recognize this. If not, well then he's not that great of a business man. In this business, repeat customers are important for staying i business. Look at Agile/Rondo. How many people here own more than one? I have bought three (own 2 at the moment). Great service, decent products that aren't too overhyped. I got what I paid for, period. No deceit.

I have no doubt that these Xaviere guitars are really good products, and I am thinking hard about getting their 335 copy in the near future - if it comes with the latest Fat Pafs in it. Otherwise I'll pass and get another Epi. I like to support the little guy, and keep our business in this country (even if the guitars aren't made here). The way the little guy stays in business though, is to offer superior service (which for the most part they have) a unique product (debatable, but still a good product nevertheless) and to be honest and ethical.

Jay, let me lay it out to you, man. I just bought an XV-500. I like it, it seems well built. It sounds good. It plays decent. Not GREAT, but pretty well. It looks fantastic. BUT - and I dont say this to be a prick, I am just being brutally honest. I feel that you ADVERTISED the GFS fat PAF pups in it, and I would expect that they would be the same pickups you sell on your website. Now we find out they ARENT. You did not advertise mine as a blem, and there ARE a few blems in mine. I do not feel like I got ripped off. I sepnt 300 bucks on a GOOD guitar. Not mind boggling, but GOOD. Certainly worth the money. On the FLIP side of that, I DO feel I was somewhat mislead. Youve made it quite clear that you go over these guitars really well. If someone looked at my guitar for a moment, the 2 spots would have been obvious. I wouldnt think twice about them if there wasnt such a big deal made about how you guys go over them so well, and any tiny tiny flaw is marketed as a blem. Secondly, knowing that the pickups arent what you sell on your website hurts the resale value of the guitar I purchased from you. It sounds REALLY good. But if I ever sell, I will not be able to hilight "GFS Fat PAF pups", because that isnt what they are, theyre not the current ones sold on your site. I dont feel like I was ripped off, because I got a good guitar for the money. I DO feel that we were somewhat decieved. Point being, if you didnt advertise this thing with the GFS pickups or make a big deal about the eyes going over the finish, I wouldnt bat an eye at what I received. Hell, even the 2 spots on the guitar wouldnt bug me, if I hadnt found out about this pickup situation. It comes down to being completely REAl about what you sell. I woulda bought it anyway had it not advertised FAT PAFS. In the long run, it prolly isnt a big deal to MOST people, but even a few hundred bucks is a lot to ME. I make decisions very carefully when buying even a budget guitar, because finances are tight. Part of my decision to buy a Xaviere WAS because of the pickups. Now I find out they arent exactly what we were lead to believe. I have to say, since Im making this post anyway, that I was really turned of by your attitude in a thread where a guy asked what was in stock or not. One of the guitars on your site said "IN STOCK"...the rest didnt. That WOULD lead ME, and I would bet a lot of others, to think that the ones that DIDNT say "IN STOCK" were NOT. I pointed that out, and your reply was something along the lines of "this isnt rocket science". True enough, but common sense would tell most people that you only had ONE model in stock. You acted like we were dumb for thinking that. It's just not good business, IMO. I think you sell a good guitar for the price, man. But dont OVER hype it. It just leads to disappointment. I hope I dont sound like a jerk by saying this stuff...I wish you and GFS well. I think you have a good thing going. But to find out that we didnt buy EXACTLY what we thought we were buying, ...well, you see the pint, I hope. Good luck, bro.

 

[Guitarfetish]

Ouch guys- that's harsh!!

 

Anyway- Like I said- these have Fat Pafs in them.

 

There is no practical way for me to retrofit the guitars every time we revise the pickups.

 

Part of what's made our pickup line so popular is we consistently upgrade the products and don't raise the prices.

 

The guitars were all specc'd out with the Fat Pafs that we were selling at the time. If you bought a retail Fat Paf at that time- it's the same pickup.

 

So for those who were dissapointed- I'm sorry. i still think it's a hell of a great sounding pickup- with one of the best split coil sounds going. I do STAND BY my descriptions- The guitars are described accurately, and priced fairly i think.

 

Imported guitars are a bear- You've got to commit to them way ahead of when you get them- wire hundreds of thousands of dollars and wait for them to come on a boat- You MUST work with economy of scale- so you can't move fast- no turning on a dime- thus we have to commit to large runs of pickups- The Fat Pafs are "OEM" versions because the wiring codes are different so the factory would not be confused- No other nefarious reason- just for production purposes.

 

if you EVER have a problem or issue with one of my products- email me directly- those who have done this know that I will take care of you regardless the expense.

 

If you instead go on a public forum and cry about it- well then you create an adversarial position- I don't want to be your adversary- I'm a guitar player like you- i want you to like the same {censored} I like.

 

But we have sold an awful lot of guitars with these pickups in them- and the avalanche of positive feedback I've received is really gratifying- We have guys on their seventh and eighth guitars!

 

But our new strategy is to include good quality pickups and give people a clear upgrade path at the time of purchase- This will all be clear when the new products are rolled out in May or June.

 

But the existing 700's and 500's do represent an awful lot of guitar for the money- unmatched- I think- by anything else within $200 or so.

 

And you know- for those who don't care for our products or our attitude, there are plenty of other vendors out there who should be able to satisfy you. I never like to lose a customer for any reason, but I'm a pretty straightforward guy. Ask me nice and I'm a pussycat, challenge me to a fight and I'm ready to throw down.

 

So for ANYONE with ANY ISSUE with ANY of my products- email me directly at Jay@guitarfetish.com. Even if you called me a douchebag on a forum- if you email me directly and act like a gentleman I will ALWAYS do my best to satisfy you. After all- we're all in this together- and my whole shop is just a bunch of guitar players. We spend every spare minute wiring up pickups or messing with guitars- no corporate culture here- just a bunch of rabid guitar players trying to produce the coolest stuff for the lowest price.

[lowbrow]

....I am thinking hard about getting their 335 copy in the near future - if it comes with the latest Fat Pafs in it. Otherwise I'll pass and get another Epi....

 

 

Then, IMHO, you'd be doing yourself a disservice. The Epis are not as well constructed, and even if the GFS pickups are a generation or two behind the latest stand alone items from his site, they are still better than the stock Epi pups.

[zeegler]

I don't want to sound like an asskisser, but I think Jay is being quite forthright here. Yeah, I'm not exactly over the moon that I had to change pickups out in a brand new guitar, but on the other hand, how many guitars do you keep stock pickups in anyway? I have 16 guitars at the moment, and only one of them still has the stock pickups. (an old Aria Pro II CS-400)

It would have been nice to try out a set of the current FAT PAFs, but I'd most likely prefer the Crunchy PAFs anyway since I've used them in several guitars, and they sound great.

It's unfortunate that Jay says he'll swap the pickups if we send him the old ones though, because I would take advantage of that for sure, but like I said, mine got tossed in the trash. At least I assume that's what happened, because I can't find the damn things anywhere.

[Guitarfetish]

Yo'd be surprised at HOW MANY people email me asking for the EXACT SAME FAT PAFS thatthey got in their XV-700 or XV-500. In general the OEM versions are a little creamier sounding than the retail versions- and that makes the split coil sound a little richer-

 

Pickups are SUBJECTIVE- the new versions are NOT better- just different- and they have the GFS stamp on the bottom- that's it.