flip humbucker to change tone? Other mods to brighten this up?

[TXBDan]

Hey guys,

 

I have one of the late '90s Gibson "The Paul". Its like a SG/LP mix. Its a solid mahogany carved top body, '59 neck, w/ 496R/498T pups. I like it a lot, perfect seize, weight, and feel.

 

I love the treble pickup, but the rhythm has always been a little.. muddy with distortion. I don't use it at all with say medium-high gain rhythm playings. Its just too course and sort of harsh and farty in its breakup. I wonder of the solid mahogany body is making it dark? Before i try a new pickup, i thought i'd play with what i have first. As it is new, the adjustable poles are facing the neck. If i flip the humbucker around, will it sound less "necky". Is it true that the adjustable poles side of the humbucker is more dominant?

 

Should i try different pots? Using a higher resistance volume pot will give a bit brighter and higher output, right?

 

Any other general mod advice for the situation?

[guitarcapo]

Cheap answer would be to wire a treble bleed cap across the volume pot of the neck pickup. That would let some treble bleed through at least when you turn the volume pot down.

 

 

Use a capacitor that's value is 002

[stormin1155]

Going to a 1 meg pot would brighten it up a bit. Also try lowering the pickup. Doing a treble bleed as Guitarcapo suggests would also be a good idea to try. That's a worthwhile mod regardless how your pickups sound.

[linthat22]

Why not just remove the wire to the tone pot and see what you think? It's easy to do and costs nothing to try.

[tlbonehead]

Hey guys, I have one of the late '90s Gibson "The Paul". Its like a SG/LP mix. Its a solid mahogany carved top body, '59 neck, w/ 496R/498T pups. I like it a lot, perfect seize, weight, and feel. I love the treble pickup, but the rhythm has always been a little.. muddy with distortion. I don't use it at all with say medium-high gain rhythm playings. Its just too course and sort of harsh and farty in its breakup. I wonder of the solid mahogany body is making it dark? Before i try a new pickup, i thought i'd play with what i have first. As it is new, the adjustable poles are facing the neck. If i flip the humbucker around, will it sound less "necky". Is it true that the adjustable poles side of the humbucker is more dominant? Should i try different pots? Using a higher resistance volume pot will give a bit brighter and higher output, right? Any other general mod advice for the situation?

have you adjusted the pickup to accentuate the treble side?

[ugameus]

I would perhaps try a magnet swap. It is easy to do and the magnets are only 5 bucks from wymore guitars. Here is a link to a thread on the Seymour Duncan forum that is about the tonal properties of different magnets. If you have questions about pickup modding, these are the guys to ask.

 

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162393&highlight=magnet+properties

[guitarcapo]

 

Going to a 1 meg pot would brighten it up a bit. Also try lowering the pickup. Doing a treble bleed as Guitarcapo suggests would also be a good idea to try. That's a worthwhile mod regardless how your pickups sound.

 

 

 

Replacing the wire connecting the lug on the volume pot and ground with a 500K resistor does close to the same thing. You won't be able to turn the volume totally quiet because there will be that resistance to ground from grounding 100% of the signal...but when the volume is maxed there will be extra resistance of the signal to ground there. It's cheaper and easier without modifying the guitar and if you don't like it easier to reverse back. It's also easier to A/B the sound and compare whether you like it or not.

[GAS Man]

A better answer would be to drop a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover in there. Sweetest sounding neck humbucker ever.

 

That's more like something I'd do.

 

You complaint about the 490 is a common one. It does depend upon the guitar itself (some LPs are naturally brighter than others) and the amp (some times the 490R is great for fattening up the tone on a more shallow sounding amp) and of course the style of music you want to play.

 

But I would also try messing around with the p'up angle and height by adjusting the height screws.

 

And no, I don't think much would happen just by flipping the p'up. Remember the other coil's pole pieces are just under the cover. I don't know if they are really any stronger on the neck side with the screw tops exposed. But then again, Peter Green's LP had a flipped pickup in the neck.

 

[Mesa/Kramer]

I raised the screws on the neck pick up in my Les Paul (490) and it has helped to produce more highs/bite.

[Darkstorm]

As Mesa/Kramer says, raising the pole peice screws ussually adds some treble content. Otherwise Id say replace the pickup.

[HELSTRUME]

Yep, 1 meg pot, and raise the pole pieces up. I also didn't like the 496R.

[Metalrulez]

Didn't they make a couple different incarnations of this guitar? If I remember they had a Fire Brand or something like that and it was made of walnut and not mahogany. Cool guitars none the less.

[TXBDan]

Mine is actually the "The Paul SL" fwiw. And after some thinking i believe it has the 490R in the neck.

 

Thanks for the input, i'll play with its height and the pole pieces a bit tomorrow to see what i can come up with.

[TXBDan]

no, its the 496R. The 490R/490T come together and the 496R/498T come together right? I def have the latter.

 

Thanks for the info, i'll mess w/ the pick up and pole piece height tomorrow.

[GAS Man]

 

no, its the 496R. The 490R/490T come together and the 496R/498T come together right? I def have the latter. Thanks for the info, i'll mess w/ the pick up and pole piece height tomorrow.

 

 

No

 

It's 490R & 498T (Alnico II and Alnico V)

Commonly used on LP Studios, Supremes, Customs and the last generation of Standards.

 

and the

 

496R/500T (both Ceramics)

on LP Classics and other harder hitting, more metal directed axes.

 

The 490R & 490T come together of SG Specials.

[GAS Man]

 

As it is new, the adjustable poles are facing the neck. If i flip the humbucker around, will it sound less "necky".

 

 

By the way - I was just reading yesterday that the fixed slug pieces in a pickup are stronger than the screw head pole pieces. So if this guy is correct, then flipping the pickup would make it sound even more muddy, since you'd be increasing the sampling higher up from the bridge.

 

I realize on my first post I wasn't reading your pickup combo quite correct. And even on my second post, I have to double think that one because I have to admit I don't know what they used for sure in the early '90s in "The Paul". But I still doubt it was a 496/498

 

But here's that read I was referring to.

 

http://musicalilluminism.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/vintage-gibson-humbucker-specs-and-general-pickup-tech/

 

"Additionally, the stud side of the coil actually has slightly more output than the adjustable side on a traditional humbucker. There is a direct connection to the magnet inside the pickup on the stud side, while the adjustable pole extends out the bottom of the pickup. And, there is a slight loss of magnetic field and energy out the bottom of the pickup."

[TXBDan]

Good info, guys, thanks.

 

My mind is somewhat clearer now and i can say with 95% confidence i do indeed have the 490R & 498T (Alnico II and Alnico V) combo.

 

I play 99% of the time w/ my volume and tone knobs pegged so the bleed off cap idea won't help me much. I'll go dig up a 500k resistor and see how that goes.

 

I think this guitar is just muddy. Even my 498T in the bridge could use more treble and bite. I often crank the treble and cut the bass way down on amps w/ this thing.

 

Any other cheap mod ideas i can try before i give up and go pickup or guitar shopping?

[*BLEEP*]

In my measly opinion, rotating the neck pickup for a tonal change is overrated.

[McCain]

Good info, guys, thanks. My mind is somewhat clearer now and i can say with 95% confidence i do indeed have the 490R & 498T (Alnico II and Alnico V) combo. I play 99% of the time w/ my volume and tone knobs pegged so the bleed off cap idea won't help me much. I'll go dig up a 500k resistor and see how that goes. I think this guitar is just muddy. Even my 498T in the bridge could use more treble and bite. I often crank the treble and cut the bass way down on amps w/ this thing. Any other cheap mod ideas i can try before i give up and go pickup or guitar shopping?

 

 

 

:poke:Completely remove the adjustable pole pieces from the pick-up. Don't like it_screw em' back in.

[TXBDan]

i think i'm going to bypass my tone pots all together right now and see what happens.

 

hell i dont really need volume pots either...

 

:-D

[cratz2]

Is it definitely a ceramic 496? It's usually paired with the 500. The 490s and 498s usually go together.

 

It definitely won't brighten up by flipping it 180 degrees.

 

I'd definitely try bypassing the tone pot since that is free and super easy on an LP. Next stop would be to try a 1 meg pot on the neck pickup.

 

Good luck. Be sure and report back what you found.

[TXBDan]

hot damn. i just clipped the tone caps to disconnect the tone pots from the circuit. color me impressed, this actually did something. it sounds worlds better. so much so that i almost think my treble pickup tone pot was faulty or something.

:thu:

[guitarcapo]

hot damn. i just clipped the tone caps to disconnect the tone pots from the circuit. color me impressed, this actually did something. it sounds worlds better. so much so that i almost think my treble pickup tone pot was faulty or something. :thu:

 

You can also replace that cap with a lower value one and get results less dramatic.

 

Someone mentioned Peter Green's Les Paul.

 

That guitar doesn't sound different because one pickup was ROTATED.

 

The big deal was that one of the magnets was flipped, creating phase cancelation (out of phase wiring) when the neck and bridge pickup were combined. It was an accident from the Gibson factory that north and south were reversed in orientation with one of the magnets on one of the pickups.

This results in a guitar that sounds the same as any other LP when the two pickups are played individually, but TOGETHER they phase cancel...it's a nasal sound that sounds like playing through a wah set in one position. Interesting sound overdriven. Another characteristic is that the guitar sounds LOUDER when you turn down either pickup because there's less phase interference.

 

Turning a pickup around doesn't do much more than simply adjusting the polepieces can do. It gets you minor results at best

[dabbler]

This thread will probably grow very quickly, so I'm just going to concentrate on what I consider to be the often misunderstood and overlooked aspect: the pole screws.

 

Most everybody understands that raising or lowering a pup changes the strength of the signal it puts out and also the tone to a certain extent. But most people seem to forget that the most effective way to alter the tone of a HB is the pole screws.

 

Simply put, when you move a pole screw you are affecting the relative amounts of signal for the 2 coils mostly affecting the closest string (the one under the screw). So generally, for a neck HB where the screws are closest to the neck, when you screw it out (up) you give the neckmost coil more relative output than the other coil and, since string tone gets mellower as you approach its middle, the pickup tone for that string gets mellower. Conversely, if you screw it IN, the neckmost coil's effect on tone is reduced and the tone gets brighter (or at least LESS mellow).

 

For bridge pups, the screws are typically closest to the bridge, so the effect of screwing in and out are reversed. When you screw the bridge pup screw out (up) the tone will get brighter, because in this case the screw coil is closer to the bridge so increasing its signal relative to the other coil increases brightness.

 

And you don't have to turn the screw much at all to hear the difference! I generally make my changes in 1/4 turn increments. The only time I do 1/2 or full turn changes is when I'm trying to make a drastic tonal change.

 

For a long time, I'm ashamed to admit, I simply thought that the screws were a way to balance the pup's string output. And actually if you split the coils and only use the screw coil that IS their primary effect. But in humbucker mode what adjusting the screws really changes is tone.

 

Try it! It really gives you a fair bit of control over the sound of your pups. You think your neck pup is too muddy? Screw the screws in (assuming that they are in the coil closest to the neck).

 

Now, you've just taken your first step into a whole new world!

[PanaDP]

Or I've heard of guys in the old days adjusting the polepieces to their liking and then cutting the excess off that sticks out the bottom of the pickup. No idea if that even does anything but it seems like it might prevent that wasted magnetic field area at the bottom.