Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 I have an unfinished swamp ash body. Weight is ~ 4lb 14oz,which I know is not particularly light or heavy - somewhere in the middle ground Is there any way from the pore or grain structure or any other "markers" or tests to predict if the body will tend to be bright or dark? I'm sure there is a way to tell. Builders would not take a pot luck approach to buying lots of wood / blanks. I guess I am asking how can you tell...? EDIT: PS, I don't mean maple is bright, mahogany is warm, etc. I mean for a given specimen of a certain variety of wood (in my case Swamp Ash). I ask because I am ordering a custom pup and would like to balance my magnet choice appropriately. Problem is I do not have most of the other parts yet so I do not have a complete instrument to try out with another pickup as a baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 pssst....I have a secret: Hang on I want to make sure everybody else leaves before I say anything........... Because you know, privy information and all............. But seriously you need to hear this, it might rock your world............. O.k. I guess your cool............. You ARE cool, right? O.k. anyway....here it is: The sound that an electric guitar makes is mostly due to the pickups.....and maybe the amp. quit worrying so much about the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 I agree the pickups matter more than the wood, but the wood makes a noticable and definite contribution to the tone. Gees, it's not like I was asking about dot vs trap fret markers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evh1984 Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 Consult this man: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -Assy- Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 no, there isnt. some cork sniffer will bring up a "tap test" for lumber. youre not playing an acoustic, therefore it does not matter. it willsound good if its glued up properly and the neck is a tight fit and you have quality compnonents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 no, there isnt.some cork sniffer will bring up a "tap test" for lumber.youre not playing an acoustic, therefore it does not matter. it willsound good if its glued up properly and the neck is a tight fit and you have quality compnonents. I wonder if there is any validity to a "tap test" ? I recently built my first Tele around a MIA body (which also just happened to weigh exactly 4-14). I noticed before I even built it that it had a very resonant almost metallic "ping" to it when I just casually tapped it. I mean I wan't doing any kind of tap "test" - I was just exploring the body I just got. And the guitar sounds incredible. I don't hear that in the 2nd body however. If it is not horse{censored}, maybe it has to do with finished vs unfinished? But as I suggested in the original post. I can't think that builders, especially smaller, one-off builders like Jim Soloway or others here stake their reputations on random body blanks. OTOH, I'm sure at the Squier / Epi level / MIM level and maybe even into sub-custom shop Fender, Gibson, etc it is not given a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danswon Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 no, there isnt.some cork sniffer will bring up a "tap test" for lumber.youre not playing an acoustic, therefore it does not matter. it willsound good if its glued up properly and the neck is a tight fit and you have quality compnonents. it really does matter. if it didn't, manufacturers would make all their guitars out of plywood. i'm constantly astonished that some guitarists on this board seem to think the acoustic tone of an electric guitar will make no difference to it's amplified tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 pssst....I have a secret:Hang on I want to make sure everybody else leaves before I say anything...........Because you know, privy information and all.............But seriously you need to hear this, it might rock your world.............O.k. I guess your cool.............You ARE cool, right?O.k. anyway....here it is:The sound that an electric guitar makes is mostly due to the pickups.....and maybe the amp.quit worrying so much about the wood. You realize they will attempt assassination, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 . . . . . i'm constantly astonished that some guitarists on this board seem to think the acoustic tone of an electric guitar will make no difference to it's amplified tone So perhaps you can explain how a magnetic PU is able to amplify the acoustic sound of an electric guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -Assy- Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 it really does matter. if it didn't, manufacturers would make all their guitars out of plywood. i'm constantly astonished that some guitarists on this board seem to think the acoustic tone of an electric guitar will make no difference to it's amplified tone yeah i mean, i dont know what im talking about, i dont build guitars or have a guitar shop or anything theres nothign really to "stake" on random blanks. if it is quality lumber, it will make a good guitar. if its not, it will still probably make a good guitar, it will just be ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 So perhaps you can explain how a magnetic PU is able to amplify the acoustic sound of an electric guitar? That is very basic - The resonance and character of the wood (among other things) affects the string vibration which in turn is captured by the pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 yeah i mean, i dont know what im talking about, i dont build guitars or have a guitar shop or anything theres nothign really to "stake" on random blanks. if it is quality lumber, it will make a good guitar. if its not, it will still probably make a good guitar, it will just be ugly. I wasn't just talking at all about "good" vs "bad" I was talking tonal character (ie bright vs warm vs dark, etc). and quality lumber is what? Nice figure (necessarily) pleasing tone And I would think if you are a fairly high end custom builder there is EVERYTHING to stake on knowing one piece of wood from another. If Joe customer is paying for a custom instrument and wants a bright guitar vs a warm guitar you want to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 That is very basic - The resonance and character of the wood (among other things) affects the string vibration which in turn is captured by the pickups. How does the wood affect the vibration of the strings? Surely the string is vibrating freely in air between two fixed points (the nut and saddle) and those vibrations are detected by the PU which is sitting a couple on mm beneath. In an acoustic guitar that vibration is amplified by the body of the guitar but not so with an electric - it's the PU and amp that does the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -Assy- Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 i get that question asked every time, bright vs. warm and they prefer blahblahblah. i use mahogany for warm, sapele for bright. they are both in the mahogany family, but sapele is slightly more dense, and i will throw in a JB or a pickup of the like in the sapele guitar to add more highs. i am extremely limited on lumber choices here and i refuse to buy a piece of wood i cant hold in my hands before purchasing, so i have mahogany/sapele/walnut, and a very very interesting beautiful wood called lovoa, which is peruvian walnut, which is notthing like walnut. it all sounds good, its very easy to manipulate the sound of a guitar. you can make a mahogany guitar bright with a brighter voiced pickup and/or moving the treble on the amp up 1/8 of a turn. good tone is not really rocket science, if someone sells a guitar because they dont like the way mahogany sounds, i gaurantee you it has stock pickups, because they didnt even try to like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 That is very basic - The resonance and character of the wood (among other things) affects the string vibration which in turn is captured by the pickups. The body resonance is actually very small compared to acoustic instruments. An extremely resonant solid body would have no sustain as all the energy of the strings would be transferred to the body. One must also consider the method in which the strings make contact with the body (such as bridge material, angle of string break against the saddle, etc). While the guitar as a whole might have an effect on prominence of certain overtones based on the energy lost from the strings, the acoustic "sound" of the body can not in any way be amplified from the pickups unless the pickups are extremely microphonic which would result in uncontrollable feedback if used with any gain. As such, the pickups have vastly more impact on end tone than the wood can. However, the whole build of the instrument can and does affect the end tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 How does the wood affect the vibration of the strings? Surely the string is vibrating freely in air between two fixed points (the nut and saddle) and those vibrations are detected by the PU which is sitting a couple on mm beneath. In an acoustic guitar that vibration is amplified by the body of the guitar but not so with an electric - it's the PU and amp that does the work. I am sure you will at least agree that a strng that is not anchored under tension will not vibrate? In the simplest terms, what the string is anchored to and how it is anchored affects how it vibrates. We with limited knowledge can piss on each other's campfires all day, but back to the intent of this thread, I really am hoping some forumites who know if there is a way to predict a body's tonal character will chime in... builders? luthier's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim_Soloway Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 How does the wood affect the vibration of the strings? Surely the string is vibrating freely in air between two fixed points (the nut and saddle) and those vibrations are detected by the PU which is sitting a couple on mm beneath. In an acoustic guitar that vibration is amplified by the body of the guitar but not so with an electric - it's the PU and amp that does the work. You are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 How does the wood affect the vibration of the strings? Surely the string is vibrating freely in air between two fixed points (the nut and saddle) and those vibrations are detected by the PU which is sitting a couple on mm beneath. In an acoustic guitar that vibration is amplified by the body of the guitar but not so with an electric - it's the PU and amp that does the work. Per my above post, it's the opposite. The body steals energy from the strings via transfer by the bridge and/or nut. Assuming the loss of energy is not broadband in nature i.e. affecting certain frequencies more than others, the body must in fact have an affect on the tone of the sustaining string. The amount of affect is debatable and I think often grossly exaggerated. For example, I've played mahogany strats and teles and they didn't sound like a Les Paul. It's the over all construction which matters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 In the simplest terms, what the string is anchored to and how it is anchored affects how it vibrates. So you are saying that a string stretched betweeen posts made of metal will vibrate differently when plucked to a string stretched between posts made of, say, wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 So perhaps you can explain how a magnetic PU is able to amplify the acoustic sound of an electric guitar? An electric guitar's pick-up is just a microphone without a diaphragm. The guitar's strings take the place of the diaphragm. Like any other microphone an electric guitar's pick-up only transmits the frequencies that move the diaphragm. After sounding a note or a chord, any frequencies that are reflected back to the strings are what the pick-up sends to the amplifier. The frequencies that attenuate into the air don't get picked up by the pick-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 So you are saying that a string stretched betweeen posts made of metal will vibrate differently when plucked to a string stretched between posts made of, say, wood? Of course they will. The amount of energy lost via transfer to the posts (as each post will have a different absorbent affect) will affect the resultant vibrational energy of the string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 So you are saying that a string stretched betweeen posts made of metal will vibrate differently when plucked to a string stretched between posts made of, say, wood? Absolutely - and likewise for different kinds of metal and different kinds of wood, or stone, or plastic, or fossilized tree sap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 An electric guitar's pick-up is just a microphone without a diaphragm. The guitar's strings take the place of the diaphragm. Like any other microphone an electric guitar's pick-up only transmits the frequencies that move the diaphragm. After sounding a note or a chord, any frequencies that are reflected back to the strings are what the pick-up sends to the amplifier. The frequencies that attenuate into the air don't get picked up by the pick-ups. No, no frequencies can be "reflected back" as there is no action which is causing a transfer back to the strings. There can't be a feedback loop unless two forces are equally amplifying a sound wave. The body can affect the tone via energy lost to the body. Very very little attenuation happens due to the atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 Absolutely ... Can you prove that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 How does the wood affect the vibration of the strings? Surely the string is vibrating freely in air between two fixed points (the nut and saddle) and those vibrations are detected by the PU which is sitting a couple on mm beneath. In an acoustic guitar that vibration is amplified by the body of the guitar but not so with an electric - it's the PU and amp that does the work. If you really think those points are fixed then you should take a physics class. Those points, the materials they are made of, and the supporting structure are all free to vibrate, and thus can't be a 'fixed' point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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