Members roomjello Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 Plus the point is to make the "groove" happen from your end while the metronome sits still in it's spot. YOU have to make the groove around the metronome. The metronome preferably being on the off beat and as you get better on the off off beat and so on, your groove still strong. It becomes very organic after a while and you just feel it is in or out, then you refine the strength of it over the years.If you cannot do it to the metronome you are not doing it, so don't fool yourself by using a drum machine, that is sort of cheating, but might be a good way to internalize some stuff as you are first learning, but drop it asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 and while on the topic.....counting in tunes.......Counting in a tune is a responsibility, it should be done by the person in the band with the best time and sense of groove always.The first thing the best teacher i ever had showed us was how to count in a tune. The feel and groove and speed of the tune should be implied in the count in. The person counting in the tune should physically move to the count in and visually show the groove, preferable start moving for a bar or so before actually counting so everyone can see where it lays.You should show the band where/how it is before you start counting. with your hand, shoulders, feet etc as much as possible, create it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Don't spill your beans all over the public. I.E. : If you're going to write, record or release material, just do it. Endlessly seeking constuctive critiscism of every track on every song is just going to make you unsure and neurotic. I guarantee who ever hears your stuff is going to be immensely & unduly impressed or revoltingly repulsed, and the knowledge aforehand is pretty {censored}ing useless and only serves the purpose of grinding your self esteem into the dirt. All while enhancing your codependency, trust, and intimacy issues, all of which are amplified by the musician's muse.Not to mention that most will be polite and tell you how cool your stuff is when in reality it might really suck. LIKE BAD. Either way, nothing is gained by putting your stuff up for peer review, unless of course you are writing for commercial acceptance/compensation, formula, radio, or TV. Trying to guage the taste of the public is a rather quite useless endeavor and since the public is everyone, you are only going to please a small percentage of that public anyway, so why not please yourself first and foremost. Furthermore, the public's taste is constantly changing and they always want more of everything, I'd rather let someone famous or rich discover my {censored} through word of buzz rather than the total preliminary mainipulation of the public to encourage their participation. If and only if, you really do have something to say: say it loud and proud and then get the {censored} out of the way, or just get out and go away now while you still have some time, energy soul and integrity. I don't suffer fools or critics who are both. This post is a cynical and desultory rant, presented by a droll and brooding individual as Food for Thought...However, there is much hard truth ,savvy and prudent advice served in generous dollops within. Eat what you like, leave the rest on your plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Counting in a tune is a responsibility..... I have count ins in many languages including Mandarin, male and female voices. Works perfectly and in 100% exact tempo the song starts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Plus the point is to make the "groove" happen from your end while the metronome sits still in it's spot. YOU have to make the groove around the metronome. The metronome preferably being on the off beat and as you get better on the off off beat and so on, your groove still strong. It becomes very organic after a while and you just feel it is in or out, then you refine the strength of it over the years.If you cannot do it to the metronome you are not doing it, so don't fool yourself by using a drum machine, that is sort of cheating, but might be a good way to internalize some stuff as you are first learning, but drop it asap. The musical metronome should of course change the tempo according to what the music calls for, if not you can also walk in circles in a Tibetan monastery court with all the monks counting, then one monks leaves for a two year jounrney, continuing counting of course, and when he comes back he is still on the exact beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I know that's a well established approach that works well for many people. In my own shady past, I took a few classical lessons myself and my teacher actually encouraged me not to use a metronome. His feeling was that students who practiced to a metronome would concentrate on the metronome rather than what they were playing. I guess now and then it's still good to turn on a metronome to see how off you really are, but at least this teacher's advice was to stay away from them. Not that he didn't care about good timing, just that he didn't feel a metronome was the way to achieve it. Anyway, this was what my teacher told me, it resonated with me, and either provided lasting insight, or left lasting scars, depending on how you look at it. The other thing that contributed to my own personal hatred of metronomes is what often happens when people record to a click. Because they're listening to the click, and concentrating on having their performance match up with it, it can sometimes take their attention away from playing their absolute best. In time, but lifeless. Again, I know that's not true with everyone. But I have observed musicians clamming up when recording to a click. I think I may have even read an article in EQ by Lee Flier in which she was basically saying the same thing. I don't begrudge people their metronomic activities, but I do think there's an over-reliance on them, and perhaps the world would be a better place if metronome use was, if not eliminated, at least rationed to some extent. Perhaps governing chips could be inserted into metronomes ensuring that no single unit was used more than a certain number of minutes per day. I've been rehearsing some Russian gypsy music with a friend from Uzbekistan, opening up some new musical horizons for me. Anyway, he'll sometimes turn on a drum machine for us to follow, but he has such a strong internal sense of rhythm that within 4 or 5 bars he'll already be between beats and has such confidence that we all follow him instead of the drum machine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I have count ins in many languages including Mandarin, male and female voices. Works perfectly and in 100% exact tempo the song starts! yi, er, san, si, is that sort of how it goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've been rehearsing some Russian gypsy music with a friend from Uzbekistan, opening up some new musical horizons for me. Anyway, he'll sometimes turn on a drum machine for us to follow, but he has such a strong internal sense of rhythm that within 4 or 5 bars he'll already be between beats and has such confidence that we all follow him instead of the drum machine... I used to practice to a metronome... damn, I hated it. The drum machine came along and I was instantly playing better. Why? I think it had to do with feel. I used to go to school with lots of people who practiced to a metronome and honestly, I think it made them worse. They were right on time but pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Play a lot but practice effectively. Learn a new style completely. For me it was hybrid picking and country fingerpicking with a thumbpick at the same time!!! New licks and new technique!! WOW!! Cancel your Cable TV and use that time to practice. If you're a songwriter write. Write a lot! The more you write the easier it gets and the better you get. PERIOD! Practice your scales, know your instrument. Get out of your comfort zone!! Learn 300 classic cover songs by classic artists. It will teach you what a good song is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Don't walk over the lead vocalist with solos. Don't step on other soloists! In other words just provide backup at those times. And remember, there can only be one solo at a time. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 The less instruments, the easier it is to get a mix to sound huge. Less frequency overlap. Think about this when you are arranging. Think about this when you are mixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 If I may, a simple way to hopefully last as a musician... Be very careful going on and off stage. Particularly if you've been facing the lights on a brightly lit stage and you are now heading into a dimly lit wing area-or you are backstage. Sometimes things don't gaffed down as they should. The 4 people that tripped over the bunched up rug over a fat wad of cables already- just continued merrily on their way, and the person standing there that saw the 4 other people trip-just stood there and did nothing. A ruined career and 9+ years of pain has me imploring my performing HC friends to BE CAREFUL. And if you see something that looks unsafe or dodgy, SOUND THE ALARM! Thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 What Victor Wooten teaches about using the metronome does not seem to be commonly taught or practiced, especially by guitarists. It seems like most guitarists just use the metronome to practice scales, arpeggios, and lines. How many of them actually use it to work on their groove like Wooten does? I'm guessing just a minority of them. I've had two guitar teachers and neither of them taught the use of the metronome beyond having it be a time keeper for one's scales, arps, and other exercises - no syncopations, playing with swing feel, etc. Emily Remler was the one celebrity guitar instructor I saw who actually talked about working on swing feel with the metronome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 The thing is though, there are some works in classical music that require intense drilling to get to performance level. Metronome work can figure heavily into that drill. Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, Paganini Caprices and on and on. Geez, I went nuts with a metronome on Caprice #5. Notching it up and down. Practicing in rhythms, though the piece is straight 16ths, etc. I really don't think it made my musicality less. I was just able to play it way faster than I'd ever thought possible for me, eventually. Which is what Pag #5 is about to a fair degree. There are lot of ways to incorporate a metronome into a practice routine. I can't imagine anyone being totally expressive with a metronome going. But, at the end of the day you still have to switch it off and do it one more time....with feeeeeeeling. I'd venture to say that the automatons will be such, with or without a metronome in their practice routine, and the great performers that drill it with a metronome from time to time are quite numerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Less eBay, more Mel Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Quote Originally Posted by The Radman Don't spill your beans all over the public. I.E. : If you're going to write, record or release material, just do it. Endlessly seeking constuctive critiscism of every track on every song is just going to make you unsure and neurotic.I guarantee who ever hears your stuff is going to be immensely & unduly impressed or revoltingly repulsed, and the knowledge aforehand is pretty {censored}ing useless and only serves the purpose of grinding your self esteem into the dirt. All while enhancing your codependency, trust, and intimacy issues, all of which are amplified by the musician's muse.Not to mention that most will be polite and tell you how cool your stuff is when in reality it might really suck. LIKE BAD. Either way, nothing is gained by putting your stuff up for peer review, unless of course you are writing for commercial acceptance/compensation, formula, radio, or TV.Trying to guage the taste of the public is a rather quite useless endeavor and since the public is everyone, you are only going to please a small percentage of that public anyway, so why not please yourself first and foremost. Furthermore, the public's taste is constantly changing and they always want more of everything, I'd rather let someone famous or rich discover my {censored} through word of buzz rather than the total preliminary mainipulation of the public to encourage their participation.If and only if, you really do have something to say: say it loud and proud and then get the {censored} out of the way, or just get out and go away now while you still have some time, energy soul and integrity.I don't suffer fools or critics who are both." I think this is very true and illustrates the the main human error in making good art and dare i say living a fulfilling life in general.No it's not an easy truth to digest and execute but it is a truth none the less and we should be able to at least admit that and learn from it when someone is brave enough to speak it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Early soundstage metronome with mechanical timecode, and time signature up to 100/4, around 1865, Movie Studio Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I can't decide if it's beautiful or the ugliest thing i have ever seen.It looks loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Early soundstage metronome with mechanical timecode, and time signature up to 100/4, around 1865, Movie Studio Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Don't spill your beans all over the public. I.E. : If you're going to write, record or release material, just do it. Endlessly seeking constuctive critiscism of every track on every song is just going to make you unsure and neurotic. I guarantee who ever hears your stuff is going to be immensely & unduly impressed or revoltingly repulsed, and the knowledge aforehand is pretty {censored}ing useless and only serves the purpose of grinding your self esteem into the dirt. All while enhancing your codependency, trust, and intimacy issues, all of which are amplified by the musician's muse.Not to mention that most will be polite and tell you how cool your stuff is when in reality it might really suck. LIKE BAD. Either way, nothing is gained by putting your stuff up for peer review, unless of course you are writing for commercial acceptance/compensation, formula, radio, or TV. Trying to guage the taste of the public is a rather quite useless endeavor and since the public is everyone, you are only going to please a small percentage of that public anyway, so why not please yourself first and foremost. Furthermore, the public's taste is constantly changing and they always want more of everything, I'd rather let someone famous or rich discover my {censored} through word of buzz rather than the total preliminary mainipulation of the public to encourage their participation. If and only if, you really do have something to say: say it loud and proud and then get the {censored} out of the way, or just get out and go away now while you still have some time, energy soul and integrity. I don't suffer fools or critics who are both.Well, I think it all depends on what you're trying to do... Are you looking for constructive criticism in order to improve your craft -- or are you looking for a focus group type of feedback in order to gauge commercial appeal? If the latter, it can be very difficult, for sure, to set up a focus group or other feedback system that gives one a good picture of what the potential audience might feel about the work(s) in question, but it may still be better than shooting in the dark. And if there's one person who probably can't, as a rule, give a good, objective eval of commercial appeal, it's likely to be the artist himself. If the former, we all work differently, but I definitely feel that many folks can benefit from good, thoughtful constructive criticism. I've participated in various writers' workshop-type efforts since before I started playing and writing songs about 4 decades ago (I wrote poetry and fiction before) and I definitely feel like I've benefited from much of that feedback and I believe I've seen such efforts benefit others. Still, not everyone is comfortable with or will benefit from them. But even if one does not want to submit his own material for constructive feedback, I think he can still benefit from discussions of craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 No no no, no royalties for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well, I think it all depends on what you're trying to do... Are you looking for constructive criticism in order to improve your craft -- or are you looking for a focus group type of feedback in order to gauge commercial appeal? No matter what, you must post your lyrics at TK's forum, or you don't get anywhere with your career in music.Unfortunately I screwed it up that one time chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 No matter what, you must post your lyrics at TK's forum, or you don't get anywhere with your career in music. Unfortunately I screwed it up that one time chance. Here's the last of the threads to which Rudolf obliquely refers: Is it me, or is the Songwriting forum a nut house... He had previously been interrupting threads that others had started to get constructive criticism on their efforts with various complaints, including complaints about people posting lyrics without accompanying music. The rules in the Songwriting Forum are simple and clear. It's an on-topic, work-oriented forum and it is more heavily moderated than many other internet forums, primarily in order to keep the forum free of promo-spam and to maintain a friendly, collegial atmosphere. Many songwriters, perhaps even more so than some other creative types, are a brooding and sensitive lot, and keeping that atmosphere of collegiality can be difficult at times. And that's why trolling and other nonsense intended to distract or annoy is not tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 TK was very touched by my posts! He even wrote me some letters.Here's the thread to which Rudolf obliquely refers: Is it me, or is the Songwriting forum a nut house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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