Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 A songwriter or producer doesn't give a damn about useless opinions of non-songwriter and non-producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 As usual, you brilliantly illustrate and seperate the catagories and reasons why either type of criticism is or can be efffective, my sense is that there are just too many examples of brilliant songwriting to make either worth pursuing. To be sure, it's a complex and multi-layered situation. I myself am not a fan of focus groups for various reasons. That's why I typically talk nuts and bolts and application of craft when I'm giving constructive crit when requested. Whether I like something is somewhat irrelevant to why I'm there. I also try to treat each work as a thing unto itself: my goal is to, in some small way, hopefully give the writer some insight or observation that might help him make that particular work "better" at what the artist intended it to be -- whatever that is. But it's easy for me to see why such an approach doesn't work for everyone. And, indeed, it's often a hard road to walk. There's definitely a tendency to want to do one of the 'easy' things you alluded to above, avoiding uncomfortable truths that might be better broached or 'chickening out' from the not always pleasant or easy job of being honest about what is working and what isn't. Still, when it all comes together, I think it can be really helpful to some folks. Some of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 blue, is the Songwriting forum applicable to instrumentals too? When I compose a piece of music (as opposed to just free improvising) I don't use lyrics because I can't write any to save my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Absolutely! I will say that instrumentals can pose some interesting challenges for giving productive feedback. Particularly for your wordy, Dylanesque forum types. But it's actually a pretty diverse crowd there. And the forum has had a wide range of instrumentals of all kinds pass through, from symphonic through jazz and rock to electronica. And beyond to some pretty outside stuff. And, who knows, maybe you'd find one or more of those wordy types interested in collaborating. (But that can be a tough one, from my observation. There's often a lot of sort of theoretical interest in collaboration, but I think it's often hard for folks to actually get that symbiotic, synergistic mojo going. Probably as anywhere, come to think of it. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think aside from all the technical and training stuff everyone has mentioned. The number one item most critical is maintaining your health and having a good workout schedual. A musician really has to be in as good of shape as an athelete for both live and recording. Your best musicians will have that sparkle in their eyes that only comes from good living and good muscle tone. You need to be in the best of shape to play the instrument well, put across the emotions that come with the instrument playing and just being able to endure the lifestyle playing all the time to stay in shape. If you let yourself go, let the pot belly grow, dont eat right, party too much you'll be the first one in the casket. I know, nearly all musicians I played with back in the beginning are all dead now. They either partied too much or just didnt keep in shape. Thats my #1 suggestion for a musician. If you keep in shape, everything and i mean everything is just so much easier. You have an alert mind to learn and grow. you can put across the music so much better because you arent plagued by feeling bad, hell you may even smole when you're having fun. You also have better posture so less problems crerated by that and you have much better wind as a singer. Its just win/win no matter which way you look at it. and if thats not enough, the chicks in the audiance would rather stare at someone in shape that playes well than someone who playes great and is all out of shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well, sure, that and it's important to look like a model in videos and promo photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 i suppose thats why alot of studio musicians didnt make it as big playing out as thay did recording as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think it's overall great advice for anyone, but I've seen some amazing musicians who were far from in good physical shape. And I've also seen plenty of very healthy looking musicians whose playing ability was no match for their looks. But there is no question that health issues can not only drag you down but also cut into your creative time and shorten your creative life. So, yeah, good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Absolutely ! I will say that instrumentals can pose some interesting challenges for giving productive feedback. Particularly for your wordy, Dylanesque forum types. But it's actually a pretty diverse crowd there. And the forum has had a wide range of instrumentals of all kinds pass through, from symphonic through jazz and rock to electronica. And beyond to some pretty outside stuff. And, who knows, maybe you'd find one or more of those wordy types interested in collaborating. (But that can be a tough one, from my observation. There's often a lot of sort of theoretical interest in collaboration, but I think it's often hard for folks to actually get that symbiotic, synergistic mojo going. Probably as anywhere, come to think of it. ) Thanks for the clarification! I've collaborated with a lyricist/songwriter before as a guest player. I ended up not being a full member of her band, but still got fun and educational experience out of this collaboration, and even got to play on stage with them a couple of times. I'm open to more collaborations in the future. Craig's SSS forum is a fine one, but the Songwriting forum looks like one I should look at too. I'm going to start working on a simple piece for solo viola, inspired by the Garth Knox recordings that my friend sent me. I'm not as sophisticated a composer or player but I look forward to the challenge of writing a piece I can actually play and enjoy hearing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'd love to hear it when it's done. Viola can be an amazing instrument. I worked with an exceptional violist for a while. One of the few classical players in my acquaintance really good at improvising. Which was good, because I'm exceptionally bad at playing the same thing twice. Come on by the SW forum. There's a Welcome sticky thread with guidelines on getting the most out of the forum, as well as a bunch of links to a wide variety of resources and tools. But you can probably just glance at the first post or two and get the snese of the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Here's the last of the threads to which Rudolf obliquely refers: Is it me, or is the Songwriting forum a nut house...He had previously been interrupting threads that others had started to get constructive criticism on their efforts with various complaints, including complaints about people posting lyrics without accompanying music.The rules in the Songwriting Forum are simple and clear. It's an on-topic, work-oriented forum and it is more heavily moderated than many other internet forums, primarily in order to keep the forum free of promo-spam and to maintain a friendly, collegial atmosphere. Many songwriters, perhaps even more so than some other creative types, are a brooding and sensitive lot, and keeping that atmosphere of collegiality can be difficult at times. And that's why trolling and other nonsense intended to distract or annoy is not tolerated. That "Songwriting" forum has absolutely nothing in common with songwriting. It has a bunch of neurotic forumites, hobbyist at best, who post their lyrics they call songs. That's all there is. "A critic is a hen that cackles when others lay."- Rudolf von Hagenwil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think aside from all the technical and training stuff everyone has mentioned. The number one item most critical is maintaining your health and having a good workout schedual. A musician really has to be in as good of shape as an athelete for both live and recording. Your best musicians will have that sparkle in their eyes that only comes from good living and good muscle tone. You need to be in the best of shape to play the instrument well, put across the emotions that come with the instrument playing and just being able to endure the lifestyle playing all the time to stay in shape. If you let yourself go, let the pot belly grow, dont eat right, party too much you'll be the first one in the casket. I know, nearly all musicians I played with back in the beginning are all dead now. They either partied too much or just didnt keep in shape. Thats my #1 suggestion for a musician. If you keep in shape, everything and i mean everything is just so much easier. You have an alert mind to learn and grow. you can put across the music so much better because you arent plagued by feeling bad, hell you may even smole when you're having fun. You also have better posture so less problems crerated by that and you have much better wind as a singer. Its just win/win no matter which way you look at it. and if thats not enough, the chicks in the audiance would rather stare at someone in shape that playes well than someone who playes great and is all out of shape. Yes, I have been saying this for awhile...I am talented but, I am also handsome and pretty...great combo. Girls, 'Cougars', and Grannnies love to watch me perform... And what's not to like? I am David Bowiesque 'Fey', with a nice dollop of Sting 'Macho'. Silver -spiked hair, tall, tanned, lean,and toned body, chiseled cheek bones, and piercing olive green eyes. God ...I love Me! I wear mostly black, fitted shirts and narrow legged jeans, leather jackets and three-buckled Doc Martins on stage... I attribute my continous performance record at the same venerable club 2-3 X a month for the last 30 odd years as a combo of talent and gratuitous ' hip bump ' on my low slung strat or SG at the end of a well received solo or at the end of a set.... All of this is true...normally I wouldn't share this...but Tim Beck came to me in a dream last night and said 'Luke, pick up my Standard, talk, evoke, speak of your physical attributes, relate how many woman want you now,and tell the masses of your prior, and soon to be, female conquests... I am only following the instructions he spoke to me in the dream last night.Please don't revile me for sharing his message, don't hate me cuz I'm 'all dat':lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 You can try hard, don't mean a thingTake it easy, easy, then your jive will swing Ain't what you do, it's the place that you do itAint what you do, it's the time that you do itAin't what you do, it's the way that you do itThat's what gets results You've learned your ABCs, you've learned your DFGsBut this is something you don't learn in schoolSo get your hip boots on, and then you carry onBut remember not to try too hard or it don't mean a thing Ain't what you do, it's the place that you do itAint what you do, it's the time that you do itAin't what you do, it's the way that you do itThat's what gets results Ain't what you do, it's the time you do it Ain't what you sing it's the way that you sing itThat's what gets results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 We like your bio VERY MUCH. I am sorry, I somehow remember that we got a bunch of demos of you 15 years ago, but unfortunately the telephonist girlie stole them all Yes, I have been saying this for awhile...I am talented but, I am also handsome and pretty...great combo. Girls, 'Cougars', and Grannnies love to watch me perform... And what's not to like? I am David Bowiesque 'Fey', with a nice dollop of Sting 'Macho'.Silver -spiked hair, tall, tanned, lean,and toned body, chiseled cheek bones, and piercing olive green eyes. God ...I love Me! I wear mostly black, fitted shirts and narrow legged jeans, leather jackets and three-buckled Doc Martins on stage... I attribute my continous performance record at the same venerable club 2-3 X a month for the last 30 odd years as a combo of talent and gratuitous ' hip bump ' on my low slung strat or SG at the end of a well received solo or at the end of a set....All of this is true...normally I wouldn't share this...but Tim Beck came to me in a dream last night and said 'Luke, pick up my Standard, talk, evoke, speak of your physical attributes, relate how many woman want you now,and tell the masses of your prior, and soon to be, female conquests... I am only following the instructions he spoke to me in the dream last night.Please don't revile me for sharing his message, don't hate me cuz I'm 'all dat':lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 SEE, It is my Cross to Bear....now about that telephonist girlie...is she still around? see I'm temporarily having a dry spell in the 'girlie' dept....is she on Facebook. MySpace, or perhaps Your Face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 SEE, It is my Cross to Bear....now about that telephonist girlie...is she still around? see I'm temporarily having a dry spell in the 'girlie' dept....is she on Facebook. MySpace, or perhaps Your Face? she certainly is, and she needs a boyfriend urgently !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 I think aside from all the technical and training stuff everyone has mentioned. The number one item most critical is maintaining your health and having a good workout schedual. A musician really has to be in as good of shape as an athelete for both live and recording. Your best musicians will have that sparkle in their eyes that only comes from good living and good muscle tone. You need to be in the best of shape to play the instrument well, put across the emotions that come with the instrument playing and just being able to endure the lifestyle playing all the time to stay in shape. If you let yourself go, let the pot belly grow, dont eat right, party too much you'll be the first one in the casket. I know, nearly all musicians I played with back in the beginning are all dead now. They either partied too much or just didnt keep in shape. Thats my #1 suggestion for a musician. If you keep in shape, everything and i mean everything is just so much easier. You have an alert mind to learn and grow. you can put across the music so much better because you arent plagued by feeling bad, hell you may even smole when you're having fun. You also have better posture so less problems crerated by that and you have much better wind as a singer. Its just win/win no matter which way you look at it. and if thats not enough, the chicks in the audiance would rather stare at someone in shape that playes well than someone who playes great and is all out of shape. Totally agree! And when you work hard at it and take care of yourself, it becomes quite evident when the people around you are struggling because they can't keep up. Whether it's the sugar peak- then down from the can of Coke they had at break, or a hangover, or it just seems painfully evident they still have last week's steak dinner in their gut.FWIW I was in very good shape when I was injured. Quite possibly the most physically fit of the 45 member core orchestra. I've got witnesses. But ultimately that didn't save me from painful turn in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 she's is good hands, she should stay there...why would she want me (chopped liver) when she is enjoying Filet Mignon,,,Btw how is the Sushi in Murten these days...fresh and tasty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Vitamins and supplements are helpful allies. Two of my favorites- Got frayed nerves? Calcium magensium supplements are calming, but without pulling you under. Ragged out because you gave it all you had on Friday night and need a boost for Saturday night's performance? Ginseng is awesome. EDIT: Check with your health care provider and take as directed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 By the way Rudy, who's the pic of in your avatar? Looks alot like Hugh Jackman as Van Helsing... Have no clue who that hobby mafiosy is. He just looks like a bloke from Milano to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 I've never played to the baton before. I'm glad it's just not me... You know, I look at these conductor's batons sometimes and I think, "Holy crap!" In big band jazz, you've got the hat or ride but... with classical batons... where's 4?!?!?!? It's alright. A great conductor is a beautiful thing to behold. It's a pleasure to play for one that knows what they're doing and lets the stick do the talking. I was a violinist in The Conductor's Institute back in college. A not exactly stress free way to earn some bucks during the summer. All types...I'm tellin ya. Fun parties! It was good for me at that stage to see that conductors are people too. But in general-during the week-the biggest room full of egos EVARRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 conductors are funny chaps, and watching them waving the hands to our scores is a real comedy fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 I've never played to the baton before. I'm glad it's just not me... You know, I look at these conductor's batons sometimes and I think, "Holy crap!" In big band jazz, you've got the hat or ride but... with classical batons... where's 4?!?!?!? What was weird for me when I played in community orchestra was when we played jazz tunes (usually something by Ellington or Cole Porter) and had to follow the baton. I forgot who took over the baton when the music director/conductor would sit down to play piano solos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Treat music like oxygen. Listen to music as much as you can manage. Listen to as many styles as you can stand. Have music playing while you sleep. When you have no available music (say at work, or something) play songs you love back in your head. But, try at all cost to be have actual music playing 24/7. The more you put in, the more you get out. While I appreciate the spirit, ...different strokes, I guess. There was a time when I'd take a music bath (though not while sleeping), nowdays I like it quiet. So much incidental musical pollution to repel in this world too. I still listen from time to time, but not nearly as much as I used to. I work hard on my own music though, and save my energy for that. I think only so much is to be gained with the osmosis approach, and it's important to listen to music with some focus, if not intent---rather than having the 'soundtrack to your life' approach. Maybe the latter gets you musical genuis status in your next life though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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