Muscle memory: blessing or curse?

[Jkater]

When I play a piece that I have learned and rehearsed extensively, I think almost not at all about where my finger goes. Muscle memory takes over. This is great because it helps a lot to feel the music and give a personal twist or groove. It is tremendously freeing. I sometimes have the uncanny feeling that I'm listening to the piece I'm playing as if I'm in the audience (hard to describe).

 

But... when improvising a single line solo, this is a curse. Muscle memory gets in the way and I resort to same old licks when in a rut. This surely has to do with being good at the former and sucking at the latter.

 

What about you guys? thoughts?

[GAS Man]

Yeah, I'm with you on pretty much everything you're saying, except I never really feel that I am like a third party listening to myself. I actually have to record my playing to be able to get that.

 

But the other part of muscle memory that can be a curse for me, is when I've learned a song and then either A) I find a more accurate way to play it or B) I find that improvisations (ad libs) have gradually crept in over time that are a bit off, then hoah boy is it difficult to stop the muscle memory and relearn the song correctly. I find that it's sometimes easier for me to learn how to play a passage initially the first time than it is to try to correct it once the mm has set in.

[billybilly]

I concur and am guilty of playing the same old licks myself. However, without muscle memory, I don't know that I would even be able to play the guitar.

 

For me, practicing new licks, that are not mine, can open up some doors. I try to challenge myself to learn new things to avoid getting stuck in my lick habits. That being said, it depends upon my mood as well. Sometimes I am creative and rip and sometimes I am just going through the motions. Mostly the latter though...

[onelife]

Load up your muscle memory with more licks etc.

 

A good improvisor can sing their parts. If you have enough in your muscle memory the ideas come to you in musical form and you don't really have to translate them to the instrument, the muscle memory does it for you. When you can remain in that musical space you can also remove yourself from the physical part of playing and watch it happen.

[Jkater]

 

When you can remain in that musical space you can also remove yourself from the physical part of playing and watch it happen.

 

 

You said it better than I could.

 

Sadly, i must add that this no longer happens when I push that dread record button, especially with a vid. I become self conscious and the whole experience of playing is different. I can still play decently (I hope) but nowhere near as freely or loosely as when I do it with no pressure or stress. It becomes sloppier.

[nuke_diver]

You play more than decently Richard

 

I would like some of your muscle memory if you aren't using it:wave:

 

Seriously the recording thing is probably not about muscle memory, that's still there. It more like the conscious knowledge that you are trying to do something specific rather than just letting things flow. The good thing about the record button is that there is an erase button too .

[mrbrown49]

I know exactly what you mean. The only way I can break out of it is too force myself to play way out of my comfort zone for a while.

 

Taking a few days off helps sometimes too. I generally come back to it with a "fresher" approach.

[J-E-M]

When you have to unlearn bad habits in technique it's a curse.

[onelife]

 

You said it better than I could. Sadly, i must add that this no longer happens when I push that dread record button, especially with a vid. I become self conscious and the whole experience of playing is different. I can still play decently (I hope) but nowhere near as freely or loosely as when I do it with no pressure or stress. It becomes sloppier.

 

 

Jeff Beck is still still affected by the record button.

 

I was in a pretty good bar band and we used to record some of our gigs. We would play really well one night and decide to record the next night in the same room with the same setup. We became so aware of the recording that we did not play as well and thought that we should have recorded the night before.

 

One of the band members suggested recording everything so that after a while it would be a non issue. It worked and we got some stellar recordings because it became just like setting up the PA - not something you think about while playing.

 

I think the best way to get over the 'record button' issue is to record a lot - easy to do these days - so it becomes more routine, like tuning. That will also give you the advantage of having the recorder running when you do hit 'those' moments.

[Help!I'maRock!]

yes.

[GCDEF]

I don't think the two are really related. I'll rely on muscle memory if there's a riff that's hard to play. I'll sit there and repeat it for hours until I don't have to think about it any more. Improvising is more about building a bag of tricks and pulling from it on the fly. Muscle memory will help you pull off some of those tricks, but you need a full bag to draw from. If you're in a rut in your soloing, it's time to learn some new licks.

[Hubert Stumblin]

 

Load up your muscle memory with more licks etc. A good improvisor can sing their parts. If you have enough in your muscle memory the ideas come to you in musical form and you don't really have to translate them to the instrument, the muscle memory does it for you. When you can remain in that musical space you can also remove yourself from the physical part of playing and watch it happen.

 

 

I suppose the ultimate would be to have an intuitive understanding of the instrument and to have whatever pops into your head be translatable through your fingers. That way you'd never really fall into ruts.

 

Then you never know what will happen with the whole "out of body experiance" thing on guitar. SRV once told Carlos Santana about "watching myself onstage from a balcony playing stuff I didn't know I knew how to play".

[onelife]

 

I don't think the two are really related. I'll rely on muscle memory if there's a riff that's hard to play. I'll sit there and repeat it for hours until I don't have to think about it any more. Improvising is more about building a bag of tricks and pulling from it on the fly. Muscle memory will help you pull off some of those tricks, but you need a full bag to draw from . If you're in a rut in your soloing, it's time to learn some new licks.

 

 

That's it right there although I don't think the bag is ever full or if it is, it should be an ever expanding one.

[mosiddiqi]

I'm finding that most important place for me to have this "muscle memory" if you like is actually in my minds eye/brain/imagination. If I can hear the piece, whether it's a whole song or just a lick in an improvised solo..then everything becomes straightforward..it just needs execution.

[Sjonesmusic]

I've always taken the approach of practicing completely random shapes and patterns so that I am not practicing "licks" and rehearsed patterns, but rather, fluid control over any potential outcome.

 

I've also adopted the philosophy of never learning anyone else's licks or solos unless its an iconic, necessary one to the song. Instead, I have always "learned" solos internally, by singing, as best I can, or scatting to internalize the gestures, rhythms and shapes, but NOT rehearsing the physical aspects. Instead, I try to get inside the concept behind the soloist and figure out what they drew from to produce the solo, so that when its my take, it's as if it's their alternate take on that piece.

[BlueSky1963]

Look on the bright side, you realize that you have a tendency to re-use licks. Therefore you are cognizant of the fact that you can get stuck in a rut and you work to avoid that happening. Some people never develop that ability and keep playing the same 6 licks over and over and over.

[onelife]

 

I suppose the ultimate would be to have an intuitive understanding of the instrument and to have whatever pops into your head be translatable through your fingers . That way you'd never really fall into ruts. Then you never know what will happen with the whole "out of body experiance" thing on guitar. SRV once told Carlos Santana about "watching myself onstage from a balcony playing stuff I didn't know I knew how to play".

 

 

I believe that is it.

 

Does George Benson sing along with his guitar or does he play along with what he is singing? (you don't have to answer that)

 

[video=youtube;36C4Erin0uc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36C4Erin0uc

 

Good example at 5:15 and again at 7:45 but the whole thing is worth a listen

[GreatDane]

muscle memory is a blessing for me. i play better when i don't have to think about the "mechanics" of a particular passage. over the years, i have been steadily focusing on building up a broad-based "tool box" of patterns, techniques and phrases to pull from. sometimes i even surprise the {censored} out of myself and play something that doesn't draw from the tool box at all.

[scolfax]

Practice Makes Permanent

[stratocaster202]

The best way to get around this IMO is to get intervals into the muscle memory. This is like singing your part, when you think of where you want to go next, your fingers will take you there.

 

The best way to get the intervals into your muscle memory is to play them. To learn the intervals for a genre, learn licks.

 

So yeah, learn to sing parts and play them as you sing them

 

[/restating what's already been said ]

[fretmonster]

Cool thread J. Refreshing to read a discussion relating to actually playing the damn thing.

 

I struggle with this as well and believe in that in my case the answer lies in refining my sense of relative pitch as it relates to intervalic relationships.

[fretmonster]

 

You posted this as I was typing - looks like I'm on the right track.

[Jkater]

 

I think the best way to get over the 'record button' issue is to record a lot - easy to do these days - so it becomes more routine, like tuning. That will also give you the advantage of having the recorder running when you do hit 'those' moments.

 

 

Yes, many have suggested this.

[ashtray]

I got into such a bad muscle memory rut that even when I was just randomly noodling, my wife would know what I would play next. When I asked her how she knew I'd go into that lick, she said "because that's what you always do"! Yikes.

 

Muscle memory is fun, but it's screwy. I used to play piano - and I still remember some decent pieces, but not if I think about them. And I can't stop in the middle. If I do I need to start back from the beginning as I have no idea what chords I'm playing, etc. I had learned the songs from sheet music, but that was 20+ years ago. Been playing it just from muscle memory all this time.

 

On guitar, it's important to practice CORRECTLY and not worry about speed. Getting your fingers in the right positions over and over, and you'll be fine. Unfortunately 2 weeks into taking lessons, I mixed up the fingering on a D chord. Practiced that way every day for a week. To this day, that's the only way I can play that dang chord! Hahaha