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Why do rock bands bother having keyboards live?

honeyiscool

By honeyiscool
in Electric Guitars

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honeyiscool Newbie

honeyiscool

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(Or why do keyboardists bother joining rock bands?)

 

I know this might be a {censored}storm but I really do feel this way.

 

Now, there are different types of keyboard playing, and when it's just a few leads here and there or a pad now and then, it usually sounds fine. But that's rarely a full time job, is it? And it doesn't require much training to do, someone can do it on top of other duties.

 

Basically, every time, I've seen a loud rock band live with keyboards and it's playing piano or organ along with distorted guitar, I can't hear the keyboards. And when you can, it's usually harsh and shrill and terrible sounding and it screws up the entire mix. Yes, I don't go to too many large shows with professional soundmen making everything sound nice, and when I've been to those, generally the keyboards blend a lot better. I mean, guitars in general are way too loud at most shows and tend to overpower drums and bass and vocals, but especially keyboards, because I think a lot of things happen at the same frequencies.

 

This is one of the many reasons why I hated playing keyboards with rock bands. No matter how loud I played, I couldn't hear myself. If I stopped playing, of course, there was a decrease in volume, but that's about it. What's the point of carrying around a large and complex instrument just to provide a bit of girth when a second guitarist can do a lot of the same things? You could do a four octave arpeggio and you or the audience would barely know anything happened. And sure, I could play synths instead of Rhodes and have a chance at making a difference, but I don't like doing that because that's like asking a blues guy to try playing some U2, it's weird when you go from "which notes do I play" to "which knobs do I turn" and it's not even the same instrument. Plus, synths can get awfully annoying.

 

Now, I think it's possible to have piano sound good with guitars (with less gain, it works fine), but I just don't think it normally happens and I honestly think that the average rock band I see at a bar gig or whatever, if they fired the keyboard player, nobody would even know or care that he was gone.

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honeyiscool Newbie

honeyiscool

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I hate The Doors, but I do accept that they made it work. Their sound is mostly based around the keyboard, and they leave a huge amount of space for that instrument to occupy, the guitarist really backs off when compared to most guitarists out there. It's not your usual four-piece that decides, HEY WE WANT SOME KEYBOARDS ON SOME SONGS, and then next thing you know, he's playing on every song and not doing much.

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Willyguitar Newbie

Willyguitar

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Go to about 2.30 in to see how the guitar and keys work together... and be sure to go to about 5 mins in to experience one of the greatest rock break outs in music history (well, perhaps only in my opinion):

 

[video=youtube;tMpGdG27K9o]

 

[video=youtube;DaN5BHrLXB4]

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Hudman Newbie

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Keyboards have been highly effective in numerous rock bands over the years.

 

Doors, Rolling Stones, Journey, Allman Brothers, Pink Floyd, Styx, Led Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails, Faith No More, Rainbow and many others made good use of keyboards.

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honeyiscool Newbie

honeyiscool

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Is it just me or is the bass pedal playing extremely sloppy? He's hitting wrong notes, not really sustaining well, and the lack of vibrato bores me. I understand he's a legend and all and this is really hard to do, but that doesn't mean I think it sounds good.

 

And when he was playing marimba or whatever, I could barely hear it at first, which sorta makes my point. The only sound that consistently seems to work is the organ.

 

And yeah, Pink Floyd is a band that obviously used keyboards well but they're doing the textury kind of thing that I accepted in the OP can work pretty easily. None of these guys have a "rock pianist."

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slushpup96 Newbie

slushpup96

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Okay, I hear what you're saying, but what if I'm playing a keytar?

 

but seriously, there are places in the music that piano (more like organ) can fill in much better than another guitarist. It's more subtle.

 

Pianos/harpsichords, on the other hand, should really never be used with distorted guitars.

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Pitar Newbie

Pitar

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I hate The Doors, but I do accept that they made it work. Their sound is mostly based around the keyboard, and they leave a huge amount of space for that instrument to occupy, the guitarist really backs off when compared to most guitarists out there. It's not your usual four-piece that decides, HEY WE WANT SOME KEYBOARDS ON SOME SONGS, and then next thing you know, he's playing on every song and not doing much.

I did not get into any of the Doors organ-grinding sound or Morrison's pipes either for that matter.

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danswon Newbie

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Basically, every time, I've seen a loud rock band live with keyboards and it's playing piano or organ along with distorted guitar, I can't hear the keyboards. And when you can, it's usually harsh and shrill and terrible sounding and it screws up the entire mix. Yes, I don't go to too many large shows with professional soundmen making everything sound nice, and when I've been to those, generally the keyboards blend a lot better. I mean, guitars in general are way too loud at most shows and tend to overpower drums and bass and vocals, but especially keyboards, because I think a lot of things happen at the same frequencies.

 

 

I agree that a modern sterile hi-fi digital sounding synth patch can sometimes not blend well with the sounds of the other more "organic" instruments but sometimes it's just a sound-engineering issue. Imagine how many vastly differentiating synth sounds there are in one keyboard. So much wider range of sounds than guitar/bass and therefore not always as obvious to a sound engineer how to place them in the live mix. Also, maybe it's different in your local area, but sound engineers in my area seem to hate guitar. It's almost as if they're ashamed of loud rock guitar. I sometimes walk out in front of the PA when soundchecking to find everything is coming out of the PA much louder than my guitar (usually vocals and drums) and i think - why do i even bother? I tell sound engineers politely that i think my guitar should be louder and they always give me this sarcastic attitude like i'm being some egotistical primadonna.

 

And i fooking love The Doors

 

We're a 3-piece and considered having a friend do live keyboards but i've now decided i'm going to try and approximate them myself on guitar with a multi-fx that can get some synth like sounds

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