Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 What's there to laugh about? I can sight read, and I can play classical and jazz. That's three things Eric Clapton has never demonstrated any proficiency in. Therefore, in the contexts that those things are necessary, I'm a better musician than Eric Clapton. And then read the next part of the quote, where I admit that in the larger scheme of things, I'm not, and he's accomplished more than I have. So yeah. Laugh all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animalwithin Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 That is a very idealistic view of the world. I never believed I was that great at math, for instance. Most kids don't even know they're talented because they're just kids. When other people recognized it in me, and I studied for a summer, I was suddenly blowing past everyone. Even as I got really good at it, did I love math? Not really. I never have loved math. I love being good at math, but that's not the same thing.It was the same for me when it came to music. For the longest time, I knew I was naturally gifted at music and I loved being good at music, but loving music is another matter altogether, and I probably didn't get there until I was 20, maybe. The skills I've learned that make me into a musician certainly didn't come about because I had true passion for music. They came about because I practiced a lot, and had a gift for it, and mostly because I loved being adored and being told I was good at music. Thats not idealistic at all. Why is belief in oneself seem so farfetched? Lets look at sports for a second. Michael Jordan to be exact. Jordan didnt have anybody believe in him when he first started out, not even the varsity coach at his high school. But he loved basketball and had a passion for it and he knew he could be great at it. So he went to work on becoming a great basketball player. If you listen to interviews about him, after every loss, he knew the Bull's were going to spring back. The last game he played with the Bulls, when he made that game winning shot, afterward he went and gave Phil Jackson a hug and said, "I had faith, I had faith." Jordan always believed he was amazing, and he had a drive to prove it to others as well. You obviously have to love the thing at hand. You can hate doing something and end up being really good at it but that is not passion, you'll go crazy at the end of every day. I dont understand your last sentence though, you love being adored and told you are good at music more than the music itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes, Mark Knopfler. Being Cocky is a big fault of many people. An inflated ego or "being cocky" can lead to many problems in life. At the end of the day, an inflated ego is usually a sign of insecurity. Now ask yourself this, how did you react to that comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 At some point in my life, I certainly enjoyed the attention that came with being a musician more than music itself. But honestly, if you get to a point where you're extremely technically advanced but you're not writing your own music, just how engaging can it be anymore? People get dazzled by your skills, but your skills are just an easy display of techniques you've perfected during practice and it's just not that interesting anymore. It wasn't until I developed a real interest in writing my own music that I started caring more about music itself. Oh, and Michael Jordan is one of the cockiest people ever. He even invited his high school coach to his Hall of Fame acceptance to tell him he was wrong, in front of everyone. In that same speech, he told his kids he'd hate to be them because they'd have to be in his shadow. He loves basketball, he certainly loves winning, but he's certainly the best example that I can think of that actually supports my case that a being cocky is something that you need to be great at something. Most guys who have the talent but never quite make it in the NBA, you look at them, and they're usually nicer than Michael Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Being Cocky is a big fault of many people. An inflated ego or "being cocky" can lead to many problems in life. At the end of the day, an inflated ego is usually a sign of insecurity. Now ask yourself this, how did you react to that comment? But see, I agree with you. I also think insecurity is what some people need in order to motivate themselves and be good. Where would rock music be without insecurity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aenemated Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 If people only wanted to see Bob Dylan because he's a great writer, then there are about 10,000 covers of his they could be listening to instead. Instead, they listen to Dylan. That means he's a good performer as well as a good writer. not to detract from his performance abilities; but there's something to be said for authenticity. plus - interesting choice to use dylan considering the uniqueness of his performance. no one else sounds like him - but to make it relevant to the discussion, i really doubt he set out to do that; to actually BE unique. he just is. anyway. i suppose my overriding point is the huge difference between just "better" and "better than." there's a level of sincerity that comes from wanting to improve purely for your own satisfaction and not so much just to garner said satisfaction in comparison to others. because really - that's an pointless goal. especially in a world as subjective as music; there *IS* no "best." beyond that, outwardly cocky people annoy the living {censored} out of me in ANY situation. more often than not, it's a mechanism to deal with extreme insecurity, which makes their little bull{censored} act even funnier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animalwithin Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 At some point in my life, I certainly enjoyed the attention that came with being a musician more than music itself. But honestly, if you get to a point where you're extremely technically advanced but you're not writing your own music, just how engaging can it be anymore? People get dazzled by your skills, but your skills are just an easy display of techniques you've perfected during practice and it's just not that interesting anymore. It wasn't until I developed a real interest in writing my own music that I started caring more about music itself.Oh, and Michael Jordan is one of the cockiest people ever. He even invited his high school coach to his Hall of Fame acceptance to tell him he was wrong, in front of everyone. In that same speech, he told his kids he'd hate to be them because they'd have to be in his shadow. He loves basketball, he certainly loves winning, but he's certainly the best example that I can think of that actually supports my case that a being cocky is something that you need to be great at something. Most guys who have the talent but never quite make it in the NBA, you look at them, and they're usually nicer than Michael Jordan. Attention is great, we all like being ackwnolwedged and applauded for abilities that we worked hard for, but doing it for the sole reason of getting attention isnt passion. And we all go through phases of "I'm the greatest thing to ever happen to this world." But wouldnt you say now you have passion for music? I have several friends who met Jordan at his training camps and they told me how incredible he was, I cant say Ive met the guy. Hell, I'd invite my high school coach to my Hall of Fame if I didnt make his team. I've seen his Hall of Fame speech, its not as ruthless as you make it out to be. Regarding his kids, of course its difficult being them, they are following Michael Jordan. But I disagree about you need to be great at something to be cocky. I know many people who are cocky and have nothing to show for in life. As for your last sentence, what separates the guys who didnt make it, and Jordan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 This thread is turning the corner into Weird street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aenemated Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 and on the michael jordan tip ... remember all the ridicule he got because he thought he was such an amazing athlete, he could be a baseball star too? yeah, he got chuckled outta that one real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LesPaulFetish Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm not sure I'd call that cockyness, I would say it's confidence. I wouldn't say it's not cocky to think "Ya, I could do that," it's just being confident in your playing. If you were confident in a douchey way, yes that's cocky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sammyreynolds01 Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 what drove steve vai to be great? working his ass off for 12 hours a day. joe satriani said that vai was the most brutal when it come to analyzing his own playing. if it wasn't perfect, he wouldn't stop until it was perfect. having a sort of cocky attitude can help afterwards it getting where you want to go. i would suggest honeyiscool that you need to play with musicians that are your level and have the same desires as you. if you don't, you will never get to where you want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 What's there to laugh about? I can sight read, and I can play classical and jazz. That's three things Eric Clapton has never demonstrated any proficiency in. Therefore, in the contexts that those things are necessary, I'm a better musician than Eric Clapton. And then read the next part of the quote, where I admit that in the larger scheme of things, I'm not, and he's accomplished more than I have. So yeah. Laugh all you want.I find it difficult to believe that you've listened to Clapton and come to the conclusion that he can't play jazz. A lot of his stuff is very jazzy. Makes me think you're merely talking out your ass. In fairness maybe you've never delved deeper into his work than his radio hits. And the whole "reading music" and "classical" thing? Damn you really want this thread to go 10+ pages don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Tele Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 of the 3 people ive personally known that have made it big, 1 is cocky as hell and the other is the most down to earth, nice guy you'll ever meet, the third is a girl... so I guess the answer is no. I think maybe like in business there area a lot of cocky people that tend to make it, but its not neccessarily a prerequisite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I know many people who are cocky and have nothing to show for in life. As for your last sentence, what separates the guys who didnt make it, and Jordan? I think talent is what gets you onto a college basketball team. I think talent and hard work is what takes you into the NBA. But once you're there, I mean, there have been many players as talented or more talented as Jordan before Jordan and many since, and few of them are as accomplished. Magic Johnson comes to mind. When people talk about Jordan, it's about being winning and being ruthless and greatness, it's not about just being purely talented. Guys like Lebron are clearly more talented than Jordan ever was, but he'll never be as accomplished. And hell, Magic was clearly more talented as well, but what is it about Jordan? I really think it's because he hates being second best. Can you imagine him dancing around and joking around with someone he might have to face in the Finals that year like Lebron does? No, Jordan is a killer, and people respect that and love him for it. Only Kobe is like that today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Tele Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Larry Bird was talking about this last week, he said Magic was Magic the day he entered the NBA. Lebron lacks confidence, not talent. Bird said when he first entered the NBA he thought he would be just OK at first, but by the third game he was thinking, "Im either better than I thought I was, or these guys are not as good as I thought they were." Turns out it was the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I find it difficult to believe that you've listened to Clapton and come to the conclusion that he can't play jazz. A lot of his stuff is very jazzy. Makes me think you're merely talking out your ass. In fairness maybe you've never delved deeper into his work than his radio hits. And the whole "reading music" and "classical" thing? Damn you really want this thread to go 10+ pages don't you? Try again. Clapton is one of my favorite musicians of all time. My dad gave me a cassette of Unplugged and 24 Nights and that's all I listened to for about two years. It wasn't very easy to find rock music when you were a 6 year old boy in Korea, you know. So when I say that's all I listened to, it really was all I listened to. Then he gave me some other tapes, too, but I always preferred Clapton. When we got a CD player, I got to listen to every Clapton album pretty much ever, from the 60s up to the 90s. Whenever he was on TV, I watched. I assure you that you won't find a bigger Clapton fan in my age group. And no, nothing about anything I've heard has ever suggested that he can play jazz. Nothing against him, but he's a blues guy and he loves his pentatonics. He likes doing big bends and he rarely uses his pinky. He's got his limitations but he is a wonderful player. Why do you think I'm trying to discredit Clapton here? I'm not. The fact is he rarely plays in a manner that makes me think he would work in a jazz context. What's your problem with bringing up classical and sight reading? The point is, I can do those things, and I don't think Clapton can. Do you seriously want to discredit everything I can do in favor of everything Clapton can do? Is that your goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 to me, there's a difference between being cocky and having some natural swagger about you the former is saying "look at me.. i'm awesome"the latter is just getting on with being awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyNameIsMok... Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Going to leave this pic here of Clapton reading charts with a jazz orchestra for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 But see, I agree with you. I also think insecurity is what some people need in order to motivate themselves and be good. Where would rock music be without insecurity? I can't agree with this. Insecurity aligns itself with lack of self-belief and ultimately the unwillingness to persevere knowing you are not capable. If you have the confidence to know you can achieve something you are more inclined to work at it knowing that your goal or goals are achievable. Thinking you will never get there is hardly motivational. You may be speaking of competitiveness, which can be healthy to bring out your best. Not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animalwithin Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 and on the michael jordan tip ... remember all the ridicule he got because he thought he was such an amazing athlete, he could be a baseball star too? yeah, he got chuckled outta that one real quick. Jordan didnt go and play baseball because he thought he could become a great baseball player. Jordan left basketball that season because it lost meaning to him, he lost his drive after that season because at that point it became more about the sponsors, products, and hype and less about basketball and being challenged and he and his father always talked about him trying out baseball so he did. It was a great break for him away from basketball and reminded him of his father and how much basketball meant to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Jordan didnt go and play baseball because he thought he could become a great baseball player. Jordan left basketball that season because it lost meaning to him, he lost his drive after that season and he and his father always talked about him trying out baseball so he did. It was a great break for him away from basketball and reminded him of his father and how much basketball meant to him.That is the official story, for sure. I've also heard the rumor that he was possibly facing charges of gambling and that baseball was his way out of that, but then eventually NBA decided it needed him again. Regardless, I'm willing to believe the official story on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyNameIsMok... Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't know what's on that piece of paper he's reading or what he's playing, but reading chord charts is not anywhere close to sight reading, please. Hey man, if you are not going to acknowledge that you've stepped in it by saying he cannot sight read or play jazz, when he is clearly doing both here with a world class orchestra, then you are not cocky, you are just delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I see a picture, not a video or an account of what happened, and I don't know what he's reading and I don't know what he's playing, and I'm not observing him sight read. I'm not going to make any assumptions about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 In fact, I'd like to know how you know he's sight reading, when the definition of sight reading involves performing music that hasn't been seen before, something you can't assume from a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyNameIsMok... Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 In fact, I'd like to know how you know he's sight reading, when the definition of sight reading involves performing music that hasn't been seen before, something you can't assume from a picture. Is he playing jazz? Are you positively HALF wrong? Come on man. You're not cocky enough to admit you are wrong. I've got a little time to burn and a hell of an argument to boot, so what else ya got? (Besides nothing/hot air). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.