Members soundcreation Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 nope...it's not necessary to have any cockiness to be the best at something. no matter what definition of cockiness you have. Proof? The most dominant athlete in the history of professional sports... He {censored}s all over Jordan or ANYONE else in terms of separation from his peers..... And it was ALL internal. The only standards he ever held himself up to were his own. And by doing that he transcended all those other athletes (like Jordan) who needed those outside stimuli as motivation to go farther. Having said that......some cockiness does work for some people to help them to succeed. It can come in all packages....trying to pinhole success is a waste of time....there is no recipe or ONE way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 That's very well said, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tidal Rhythm Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Originally Posted by Tidal Rhythm What makes you think he only teaches? He has also won numerous awards for his work in classical. It would be interesting for you to have met him when he was just starting out. Something makes me think he might have been a different person earlier in his life, especially if one is receiving awards for playing. Anything is possible, but I don't think you've ever met the man and I know him quite well. In all fairness, I don't think you can reject my assessment of his character and simply assume he must have been a very different person simply to support your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JRicoC Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 ... Jordan is a killer, and people respect that and love him for it. Only Kobe is like that today. Well, as long as the mods are going to continue to allow another one of these off-topic "here's what I think, and don't you all agree?" threads to exist, I just thought I'd add this. Kobe is not now, nor will ever be Jordan. Kobe's a pampered,cowardly wuss who quit on his team in Game Seven in '06 against the Suns. Find me the Game Seven where Jordan (or Magic or Larry or Barkley or Hakeem) quit on his team ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I imagine you don't literally wave a pick in people's faces, because I can see you getting punched for doing {censored} like that. There's a difference between confidence and cockiness, and you don't seem to understand that difference. You say you've been playing guitar for 30 years, but you sound like you're 16 with a chip on your shoulder.So, Mr. Big Time, what band are you in? Let's hear it. Seriously, why are you defensive? If you had confidence, I think you'd be dismissive. What do you care whether I suck or not? How is my attitude of transparency a threat to you at all? Like Aaron Neville, I tell it like it is. I don't have anything to lose or gain by being candid. But maybe you can gain some insight. Consider that some of these "monster guitar players" who are nice to you are being phony. In my experience, entertainers are phonies. It's what the whole trade is about. You want to be a peer, then allow them to let down the facade of politeness and relax around you. Have an accurate assessment of your abilities so you don't get pissed if someone says "you sure can pick, but you can't sing for {censored}". A player I really admire told me that and I didn't immediately accept it graciously. But the more I thought about it, I realized he was right. If I wanted to be where I wanted to be, then I was going to have to get over or around that. I was fronting a band at the time and this guy I respect says that I can't sing for {censored}. What would you do? Well, I worked on my singing and hacked several songs from the set list that I really liked, but I just didn't sing that well. A couple weeks ago I saw that guy and I said to him "You always play {censored} songs before the break so you can go schmooze chicks, but it sucks all the energy out of the room." He looked back and me and grinned "I guess that's the price I'll have to pay. Excuse me for a second." That dude is cocky and I think that is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well, I worked on my singing and hacked several songs from the set list that I really liked, but I just didn't sing that well. A couple weeks ago I saw that guy and I said to him "You always play {censored} songs before the break so you can go schmooze chicks, but it sucks all the energy out of the room." He looked back and me and grinned "I guess that's the price I'll have to pay. Excuse me for a second."That dude is cocky and I think that is awesome. That's confidence not cockiness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members =JL= Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 About the only things I've learned from this thread is that Clapton can't sight read jazz piano for {censored} and that the world's best guitarist lives in Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm very humble about my cockyness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stomias Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Seriously, why are you defensive? If you had confidence, I think you'd be dismissive. What do you care whether I suck or not? How is my attitude of transparency a threat to you at all?Like Aaron Neville, I tell it like it is. I don't have anything to lose or gain by being candid.But maybe you can gain some insight. Consider that some of these "monster guitar players" who are nice to you are being phony. In my experience, entertainers are phonies. It's what the whole trade is about. You want to be a peer, then allow them to let down the facade of politeness and relax around you. Have an accurate assessment of your abilities so you don't get pissed if someone says "you sure can pick, but you can't sing for {censored}". A player I really admire told me that and I didn't immediately accept it graciously. But the more I thought about it, I realized he was right. If I wanted to be where I wanted to be, then I was going to have to get over or around that. I was fronting a band at the time and this guy I respect says that I can't sing for {censored}. What would you do?Well, I worked on my singing and hacked several songs from the set list that I really liked, but I just didn't sing that well. A couple weeks ago I saw that guy and I said to him "You always play {censored} songs before the break so you can go schmooze chicks, but it sucks all the energy out of the room." He looked back and me and grinned "I guess that's the price I'll have to pay. Excuse me for a second."That dude is cocky and I think that is awesome. That reminds me....I played with Aaron Neville 15 years ago yesterday at the House of Blues......I was awesome.......most of you guys are really wankers......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 About the only things I've learned from this thread is that Clapton can't sight read jazz piano for {censored} and that the world's best guitarist lives in Ohio. If he does, I bet my dick's bigger than his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Tele Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 theres that story Jeff Beck tells of how before he met Clapton all the other Yardbird dudes were talking him up like he was this big tough badass dude who would probably kick Beck's ass, but when they met he said he was really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Tele Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 About the only things I've learned from this thread is that Clapton can't sight read jazz piano for {censored} and that the world's best guitarist lives in Ohio. you mean Clapton? he does live in Ohio. Not sure if thats what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Seriously, why are you defensive? If you had confidence, I think you'd be dismissive. What do you care whether I suck or not? How is my attitude of transparency a threat to you at all? Am I being defensive? Your attitude just rubs me the wrong way. I have no doubt that you're a better guitar player than I am. You've said you're really good, and that Clapton sucks, and I've called you on it. I'd like to hear some of this guitar genius of yours, so I can learn from a master. Talk is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Am I being defensive? Your attitude just rubs me the wrong way. I have no doubt that you're a better guitar player than I am. Let's cut the crap. Do you think my weiner is bigger or not? I looked at the OP again and I have to stand by the assertion that cockiness, which I define as "offensive, excessive confidence" in my experience appears to be worth more than other qualities. Not so much to justify me acting like a 16 year old douchebag, but to explain why some guys who are not that good can still make a living of music through bravado manifested in self-promotion and showmanship. Two guys go to a beer joint to book a gig. One guy says "We're pretty good. We are really nice to each other and the customers. We have expensive gear." and the other one says "We are the next biggest thing in town. We have this really hot chick that sings like aretha franklin. Our drummer is 7 feet tall and fire shoots out of his asshole. The bass player's bowling average is 280 and he can bench press twice that. I have been favorably compared to Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and James Dean and can play any song on your jukebox behind my head while riding a unicycle." Who do you think is going to get the gig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Two guys go to a beer joint to book a gig. One guy says "We're pretty good. We are really nice to each other and the customers. We have expensive gear." and the other one says "We are the next biggest thing in town. We have this really hot chick that sings like aretha franklin. Our drummer is 7 feet tall and fire shoots out of his asshole. The bass player's bowling average is 280 and he can bench press twice that. I have been favorably compared to Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and James Dean and can play any song on your jukebox behind my head while riding a unicycle." Who do you think is going to get the gig? If I was the beer joint owner, I'd probably audition both bands because I'd guess the second guy was exaggerating just a bit. I'm not sure how this little story proves your claims that you're a great guitar player. But then, I never really expected you to back up your talk with any kind of proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members surpriselunch Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 well, not cocky. but be confident in what you do and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 If I was the beer joint owner, I'd probably audition both bands because I'd guess the second guy was exaggerating just a bit. Well, you're obviously more intelligent than most beer joint owners because they go for the unicycle thing every time. Here's a tip for you, though: You will never EVER be asked to audition for a gig in a beer joint. At worst, you'll book the gig and suck so bad that they won't pay you. But if you bring out 30 of your friends to drink up lots of money, the bar owner won't care if you suck or not. Has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to try and prove or disprove anything, imaginary internet guy. We're just here shooting the {censored}. If you suspect that I don't know the {censored} I'm shooting, then you are free to doubt it. But there won't be any supporting documentation because I am not on the defensive. I know how big my pee pee is. I just like the discussion and thought I'd add some living color to the fray. If I just teach you to be dismissive, I'll consider our exchange productive. Good luck and godspeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think this is where I see the disconnect. If you came to my gig and were complimentary and polite, you'd think I was humble, too. I wouldn't tell you to piss off. But among peers, even the sweetest guys drop all the bull{censored} and tell it like it is. I have played with many great players who have less-than-nice things to say about mediocre players. I hate to say it, but maybe they are nice to you because you aren't in the cool club. You don't get to hear the truth because you're not a peer. (to be honest, I don't hate to say it. It's exactly what I think and exactly what it was that I came back here to type.) And I hope that you recognize that peer is not synonymous with friend.Look, there is a reason why people become entertainers. You can say "I am not an entertainer. I am a MUSICIAN" or some {censored} like that. Well, I don't have anything to say to you because I think that it is totally frail to be satisfied playing in your basement to your cat and posting videos on youtube. But if you have the audacity to ask someone for $5 or $10 to come see YOU play, what does that say about you? Are you an attention whore? Maybe. Did you not get loved enough when you were young? Maybe. Whatever that damage is, it is the mechanism that drives doing the heavy lifting of booking gigs and practicing and eating {censored} when you go play with someone who is way better than you and calls you out to your face on it. I guess swagger, or confidence might be gentler words. But I'm not here to argue semantics. Cockiness and ego drive guys to make a mark.I agree with this 100%. There's a lot that gets said by "nice" people once they know the things they say won't leave the room. Being able to keep your ego hidden is good for business because you don't want that rep as a dick. However, when you meet someone you consider an equal, many people will quickly drop the facade and tell it like it is. That doesn't mean there's anything fake about being outwardly humble, but really that many people are not confrontational or whatever, and it's just a less stressful life when you don't have to deal with negativity all the time. Imagine you're Michael Jordan and all your teammates are {censored}tier than you because you're Michael Jordan. You think he doesn't know that? Of course he does. Does he like being top dog? Of course he does. At the same time, when some scrub misses a wide open layup, does Michael Jordan think, {censored}, I would have made that? Of course he does. Look at the body language, it tells the truth. At the same time, on a TV interview, will he say it? No, he says, I have to work harder, and truth be told, he does. He uses that frustration to work harder and make himself better instead of sitting on his ass and hoping that the scrub makes that open layup next time, and that inspires the guy to make the layup next time, but really, there won't be a next time, because next time, Jordan takes the shot himself and sinks it. I'm not saying I'm Jordan or anything but if I'm at rehearsal, and the bassist is {censored}ing up again, after how many weeks and how many rehearsals, and I know that I could take that bass right now and nail the part and I don't even play the bass, yeah, is it frustrating? Of course it is. But do I ever say anything to anybody who knows her? Of course not. She's a friend, and she is a good writer and singer. I get the feeling that she lacks drive, but I don't necessarily know what her full potential is either. Instead, I say stuff like, "Yeah, I've been practicing this song a lot. I think I can do that blah blah part better," and hope that she gets the hidden message. If you've never had to swallow your honest words and smile your way through {censored}, there's a good chance you're just not very good (which is fine), or maybe you're lucky to play with people at or above your level (which is fine). I don't think being nice to people who aren't as good as you is "phony." It's just a good life skill. Regularly being at the 99th percentile is lonely enough, so you might as well be nice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members =JL= Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I honestly believe you could drop me into any band right now and I'd be able to make it work within minutes. In any case, I've been playing four years now and I think my skills are way beyond what most people are at four years or even longer. At last after 143 posts you've finally defined "cocky".Honey, I'm not knocking you, I like some of the stuff you do, it's kind of cool and quirky, but some of it's charm is that it sounds occasionally naive and well, just a little bit "teenage".There's really nothing wrong with that at all, but I think you're maybe stretching a point a little here, you are most certainly not ready for any of the bands I work with.When I first started to play guitar as a kid I progressed so fast in the first three years I thought I was gonna be better than anyone else in another three, but it doesn't work like that, it just ain't linear. I progressed enough to play with a big name singer by the time I was 18, but apart from gaining knowledge and versatility I don't sound a lot different now, I'm just a whole lot more professional to work with. I know you are genuinely talented, but the clock is ticking my man. Hendrix was dead by the time he was a couple of years older than you remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alo33 Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I, for one, appreciate cepus's honesty,wisdom and cock-sure demeanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't think being nice to people who aren't as good as you is "phony." It's just a good life skill. Regularly being at the 99th percentile is lonely enough, so you might as well be nice about it. I guess I agree. You kinda lost me on the basketball thing, but I get where you're coming from. I am usually only a douche to guitar players who try to talk like they are bona fide when I can tell they're couch pickers. I guess I should try to be more sweet like you, honey. I am secure enough in my manliness to call you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members =JL= Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I, for one, appreciate cepus's honesty,wisdom and cock-sure demeanor. Me too, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 That's the music I write, though, and I don't write to show off ability or maturity. I write to have nice melodies. When I'm playing other people's music, I play very differently. I don't ever get to play rhythm guitar in a band setting because I'm lead by default, but my rhythm chops are really pretty solid and I can do melodic solos. With that whole absolute pitch thing, I can learn new songs effortlessly without anybody having to teach them to me. There are things I can't do, like being able to roll off quick blues based licks, but my point is, I really do think I can play in any band and make it work. I've always been resourceful. Even if my technique is limited (and it is expanding), I know how to use my knowledge to fit a song using the techniques I do have. What I mean is I'll play one song one way, then three months later, when I know a different technique, I can effortlessly incorporate that new technique I learned into the song without having to practice working it into the song. My brain knows how to arrange pieces together to make it work. I can improvise for minutes at a time and I can compensate for mistakes on the spot. I've been playing jazz since I was 9 years old. Look, you don't have to believe me that I can do any of these things, and it's really impossible to demonstrate unless you're in person, but it's not cockiness that makes me think that. I really think I can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cheezit66 Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 Regularly being at the 99th percentile is lonely enough, so you might as well be nice about it. So true. Most people have (or more likely COULD have) something that they are outstanding at, even if it is speed-trivia-about-underwater-basket-weavers-of-the-19th-century. But the loneliness of the outlier is something that most people have a VERY hard time relating to, and it bothers them deeply because to them it is just arrogance and superiority. And trying to convince somebody that it's objectively true (especially in a field where there aren't good objective measures) just makes matters much, much worse. You just don't get any sympathy by starting a conversation with "It's really hard for me to be so much better than you at this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smorgdonkey Posted February 15, 2012 Members Share Posted February 15, 2012 I hate to say it, but maybe they are nice to you because you aren't in the cool club. You don't get to hear the truth because you're not a peer. I was the singer and one of them was the only guitar player in a band that I was in for years. I have known him 20 years...I'm way into the cool club. I'll tell you how far into the club I am: you are banned for life!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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