Members Flatspotter Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well, Eric Johnson, for example, doesn't come across as "cocky", but yet he doesn't sell as well as other far less talented musicians. Maybe if you take his chops with say, Tommy Lee's cockiness, you'd have the ingredients for a major rock star. Eric Johnson doesn't sell because of a lack of cockiness, he doesn't sell because his music isn't commercial enough. Yngwie has cockiness in spades, but his music doesn't sell nearly as well as someone like Beyonce, because her music is commercial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mediocreplayer Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Sometimes people post videos here and I can't believe it. I can't believe that they think that sounds good enough to play in front of people. I don't post it. You get 100 people posting how awesome it was. It's a lie. Either that or those 100 people suck worse. If you are sitting at home and see one of these {censored} videos and think "Hey, I'm that good. Maybe I'm awesome too." You're not. You probably suck. That is of course because music is an objective endeavor and what you think sucks should exactly be what everyone else also thinks. You may be destroying all challengers (lol at this, btw), but you have the intellectual capacity of an amoeba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cheezit66 Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I highly doubt that. I take 'destroys all comers' as an example of cockiness, maybe on the more extreme end. Maybe the OP doesn't but to me it fits what he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Can you be good at music if you're not cocky? What does "good at music" mean? Good performer? Good composer? Good listener? Good critic?Regardless of the answer, to be "good" at most anything in life, it's best just to be yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mediocreplayer Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think if you are creative and have a unique voice, then that does make you better than other musicians in a certain context, and therefore you're no longer a replaceable part because you can't be replaced by someone who can do everything you can do. I disagree with this. If you have a unique voice, it makes you different. That is all it makes you, really. It is not even clear what 'better' means here, irreplaceable? That is a rather meaningless way to define better, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 What does "good at music" mean?Good performer? Good composer? Good listener? Good critic?Regardless of the answer, to be "good" at most anything in life, it's best just to be yourself. Well, I'm saying it might be a chicken and egg thing but I think the single most important thing that determines your musical ability is your personality, and I think cockiness is a huge part of it. Meaning sure, be yourself all you like, but a less confident person will probably achieve less than a more confident person, so maybe try some confident for a while if you're not confident. I think a bit of self importance is necessary for any musical endeavor. To play well, you need to practice {censored}load of hours while you suck, and how can you do it if you don't think that these hours will somehow make you good? Not many people have the personality to be able to do it. To write well, you need to think you have something to say, you need to think you have good taste and need people to give you a chance rather than keep listening to their favorite bands over and over again. To be a critic, you really have to think your opinion matters. There's a cockiness to all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I disagree with this. If you have a unique voice, it makes you different. That is all it makes you, really. It is not even clear what 'better' means here, irreplaceable? That is a rather meaningless way to define better, imo.Take Bob Dylan, not as a writer, but as a performer. I'm not a fan, but even his fans agree that he's not attractive, has a froggy voice, and is rather rudimentary in terms of chops/skills. However, he brings something interesting to the table that makes him an interesting performer that makes people want more. So who can be a better Bob Dylan? None. A guy who picks up bass guitar and can play to a few tabs in his friend's band, meanwhile, is a replaceable part, until he does more with his art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aenemated Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 i've found that those who sincerely think they're "better than [insert some other person]" ... they rarely are. the most sincerely amazing players i personally know - and i know a good handful - seem to be more interested in inspiring and bringing others up; not trying to push them down in some stupid dick-measuring contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hmmmm... I think it helps to be cocky (outwardly and/or inwardly) to be a rock frontman. Otherwise, I don't think you need to be cocky. Also, I agree that self-confidence and cockiness aren't the same thing. For my own playing, I think that I am a fair player, though I think that I should be better given how many years I've been playing. I don't practice hard as I should, since I spend most of my playing time writing songs for my band. I've auditioned for quite a few bands in the past, and I've landed the gig most of the time. I am confident in what I can do, and I'm personable enough that most people wouldn't mind me joining their band (at least I think... or am I being arrogant??? I can't tell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 the most sincerely amazing players i personally know - and i know a good handful - seem to be more interested in inspiring and bringing others up; not trying to push them down in some stupid dick-measuring contest.And if you really get at the root of that feeling, it might be because they know they've made it. I used to do math contests, I know, wow, how cool, a mathlete, but I was really good at them, as in I placed nationally numerous times and won numerous awards. These days, I get paid to teach kids to be good at math. I downplay my own achievements because really, I didn't find getting good at math to be an impossibly difficult task and so I think others can get to my level. At some level, do I believe what I'm telling them, that if they work hard, they can achieve anything? Yes, at some level, I do. At the same time, do I truly truly believe it? Would I stake my life on it? No. Most people will never be as good as I am at math, no matter how hard they try. And at some level, am I damn proud of my achievements? Of course, I am. It's just not considered cool to gloat over stuff when you've achieved at a high level because people already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aenemated Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Take Bob Dylan, not as a writer, but as a performer. I'm not a fan, but even his fans agree that he's not attractive, has a froggy voice, and is rather rudimentary in terms of chops/skills. However, he brings something interesting to the table that makes him an interesting performer that makes people want more. So who can be a better Bob Dylan? None.A guy who picks up bass guitar and can play to a few tabs in his friend's band, meanwhile, is a replaceable part, until he does more with his art. see, here you're confusing the art of songwriting with technical skill. millions still want to hear bob dylan 50+ years into his career because he's a great writer. and that's what MOST audiences care about, not "omg that dude's totally a killer guitar player." killer guitar players are a dime a dozen. killer songwriters, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 If people only wanted to see Bob Dylan because he's a great writer, then there are about 10,000 covers of his they could be listening to instead. Instead, they listen to Dylan. That means he's a good performer as well as a good writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animalwithin Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 As much as Vai might be a humble person, do you honestly believe there's nothing cocky about the way he is? He is humble to the outside world, sure, but just listen to how he plays. He plays in a way that shows off his superior skills, it is a showy, cocky way to play music IMO. There's nothing wrong with it, it is his style, but if he can stay in the pocket for an entire show, he doesn't show it, and why should he? He doesn't distinguish himself as much unless he plays in his chosen style. I would definetely not call this cocky. Zakk Wylde plays in much the same way, its very powerful and passionate, even rough sometimes, but I wouldnt call it cocky. Cocky is someone who blatantly and outwardly showing off, calling direct attention to themselves. Notice that cocky people are also many times those who believe in themselves the least, so they feel that if they show off they can get validation from the outside world and thus feel happy about themselves. But as in the Vai example above, if you're playing passionately and you know you are an amazing player, you are just doing what you do best, playing! I talk about passion a lot on here and I think passion really shows in a player when they play and cockiness is easily discernable from passion based on the way they play and carry themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 (Maybe what you call passion is cockiness that has been sufficiently validated and therefore no longer needs to be fed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animalwithin Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 (Maybe what you call passion is cockiness that has been sufficiently validated and therefore no longer needs to be fed.) NoI dont think so. Passion doesnt need validation. Needing validation comes from a lack of believing in yourself. Passion is a result of loving something wholeheartedly and already believing that you have the ability to do it as best as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 But how does that passion develop, then? Everyone sucked at some point. In the process of getting good, there is no way anybody loves music and believes in themselves every step of that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mediocreplayer Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is one of the most interesting threads I have read here in a while, but unfortunately it is marred by different people describing the same things using different names. Still interesting though! honey, in keeping with the thread, I guarantee you that I (easily) kick your ass at math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is one of the most interesting threads I have read here in a while, but unfortunately it is marred by different people describing the same things using different names. Still interesting though! honey, in keeping with the thread, I guarantee you that I (easily) kick your ass at math Are you Chinese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mediocreplayer Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Are you Chinese? lol! No! But given the concentration of asians where I went to school, I understand where the question is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members animalwithin Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 But how does that passion develop, then? Everyone sucked at some point. In the process of getting good, there is no way anybody loves music and believes in themselves every step of that way. Why not? Believing in yourself is one of the few things that will get you through something. We all have our doubts. Those that succeed believed they could succeed every step of the way and knew they were going to succeed ultimately, despite all of their failures, setbacks, lack of others believing in them, and how bad they were when they started. This is what separates truly successful people and those who dont succeed at all, belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sammyreynolds01 Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 As much as Vai might be a humble person, do you honestly believe there's nothing cocky about the way he is? He is humble to the outside world, sure, but just listen to how he plays. He plays in a way that shows off his superior skills, it is a showy, cocky way to play music IMO. There's nothing wrong with it, it is his style, but if he can stay in the pocket for an entire show, he doesn't show it, and why should he? He doesn't distinguish himself as much unless he plays in his chosen style.And lastly, I'm not trying to discredit you or anything, but if you have the goal of being heard, affecting people, and touching people's hearts, that's pretty arrogant at some level. However, the fact that you have that view is why you can be successful at it. If you didn't think that way, and most people don't, you'd never achieve it. I saw a video on Youtube a couple of years ago where Vai was saying that he used to be the cockiest person you would meet. In his words he was a downright asshole. He said what changed him was something called maturity, basically he grow up. His attitude was making people miserable around him and people hated touring with him. They way he performs is just that performing. Does he know that he can outplay most people, yep. I have been around musicians that have this thing about them onstage that people would consider cockiness but when they come off stage they are a completely different person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 That is a very idealistic view of the world. I never believed I was that great at math, for instance. Most kids don't even know they're talented because they're just kids. When other people recognized it in me, and I studied for a summer, I was suddenly blowing past everyone. Even as I got really good at it, did I love math? Not really. I never have loved math. I love being good at math, but that's not the same thing. It was the same for me when it came to music. For the longest time, I knew I was naturally gifted at music and I loved being good at music, but loving music is another matter altogether, and I probably didn't get there until I was 20, maybe. The skills I've learned that make me into a musician certainly didn't come about because I had true passion for music. They came about because I practiced a lot, and had a gift for it, and mostly because I loved being adored and being told I was good at music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 I saw a video on Youtube a couple of years ago where Vai was saying that he used to be the cockiest person you would meet. In his words he was a downright asshole. He said what changed him was something called maturity, basically he grow up. His attitude was making people miserable around him and people hated touring with him. They way he performs is just that performing. Does he know that he can outplay most people, yep. I have been around musicians that have this thing about them onstage that people would consider cockiness but when they come off stage they are a completely different person. And honestly, that doesn't surprise me. But it's not maturity that made him into a great player. It's what he was when he was young that did. I don't know. Is it possible to become great if you're not cocky? I think it's certainly possible to maintain it, but to get there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted February 14, 2012 Members Share Posted February 14, 2012 Eric Clapton's a great guitarist, but there are things I can do that he can't do. Therefore, in certain contexts, I am a better musician. In the larger scheme of things, I am not, and I'm certainly not as accomplished, and I recognize that. LMAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.