Members Buttcrust Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 I'm no professional physicist, but wouldn't/isn't the laminated "plywood" actually stronger and more "toneful" than a chunk of old painted wood ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Why would it be more toneful? More pieces means perhaps stronger but less resonant and vibrational properties. Tap on a piece of plywood and it will thud, tap on a solid piece of timber and it will ping. The vibration is constant with one piece of wood, allowing the vibration to carry. Plywood dampens this quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Buttcrust Posted December 13, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 billybilly wrote: Why would it be more toneful? More pieces means perhaps stronger but less resonant and vibrational properties. Tap on a piece of plywood and it will thud, tap on a solid piece of timber and it will ping. The vibration is constant with one piece of wood, allowing the vibration to carry. Plywood dampens this quality. OK, I follow that...somewhat...but if the glue has properly cured, and pressure is applied to "laminate" the wood together...the "plywood" may actually be stronger and more "tone condusive" than a plain piece of wood...all that porosity...cellular cushioning. I wonder if anyone has made an electric guitar out of petrified wood ? or done tonal experimentation with laminates and compaired them with non laminated electric guitar bodys or multi piece bodys...sustain, volume, clarity...can these features and anomalies be measured and compaired ? And just because a certain guitar sustains longer than another or is louder unplugged...does that make it better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Mostly because its built like wafer cookie and its a cheap wood to use. But I had a few plywood guitars that sounded good after a few mods to the electronics and yes they are indeed heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 And I mean wafer cookie as in the fact it's built in layers not extremely fragile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Well...I personally don't like them because I've never played one that sounded anywhere near as nice as a solid wood guitar. Simple as that really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Depends on what you mean by plywood.ES-335's are made of "plywood".Alembic guitars and basses are, for the most part not "solid" wood but are made up of several plies, all of them that I've ever heard sound fantastic.But cheap plywood guitars sound, oddly enough, like cheap plywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 I thought Les Pauls were quite popular, they are plywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 If you want to dampen sound transfer in a window, you use a laminated glass, which is 2 pieces with a clear material between them. If you want to make a wall more noise proof you use 2 layers of 10mm plasterboard, not a single layer of 20mm.Same effect with plywood guitars if the glue is thick and gummy like some epoxies. I'd never use anything but the instrument glue from LMI. That stuff dries hard like glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Oh nonsense.Plywood guitars sound like any other guitar as long as the electronics are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members *BLEEP* Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Buttcrust wrote: I'm no professional physicist, but wouldn't/isn't the laminated "plywood" actually stronger and more "toneful" than a chunk of old painted wood ? Not a chance, really. That nasty quick-setting formaldehyde hot glue they use to make plywood with at high speeds in plywood factories is absolutely the most efficient material for soaking up toan. There is a *lot* of that glue in most plywooods! Also, the plies that constitute plywood have the grain laid down in a perpendicular fashion for high strength. This is total anathema to the transmission of toan. Some so-called furniture grade plywoods are more thoughtfully manufactured and the laminations aren't so vulgar, but its still nowhere as good as a solid piece of natural wood. The laminated tops for archtops, is by far the finest "plywood" made -- very good maple, very little glue (musical hide glue used so that it can be easily steam-formed into shape), and with grain direction matched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Lol my main guitar (1980 Ibanez ST-50) is technically ply as its a pancake body like a few Norlin Lester's and its not too heavy I mean as much as my buddy's SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Buttcrust Posted December 14, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Ok, interesting replys. Is there such a thing as "tone plywood". Plywood that is made with specific wood, glue or manufacturing process that might bring out tone desireable than something I might slap on the roof of a shack ? Hmm..you guys know more about this than me...Also..Why do some like 5 piece necks better than 1 piece ? Stability ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleTrails Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Probably my most resonant guitar is a cheap epi LP special 2, which if I'm not mistaken is a laminate solid body. It sounds good played really clean, but muddies up when driven hard. It doesn't have the most playable neck, but I pick it up every so often if I am in a jazzy mood.One of the most toneful guitars I've played is an Ibanez lawsuit LP with a laminate body. Thing growled and screamed. Body on it was pretty resonant.I wouldn't call Alembic guitars "plywood." The plywood you pick up at the hardware store has the layers of wood arranged so that the grain on each layer is crossways with the ones next to it, which is why plywood tends to be stronger than solid wood, but is also likely why a guitar made that way typically won't resonate too well. The Alembic style "hippie sandwich" guitars have the grain aligned in the same direction. They also weigh a ton. Some top out at better than 14 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members *BLEEP* Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 PurpleTrails wrote: Probably my most resonant guitar is a cheap epi LP special 2, which if I'm not mistaken is a laminate solid body. It sounds good played really clean, but muddies up when driven hard. It doesn't have the most playable neck, but I pick it up every so often if I am in a jazzy mood. The Epiphone LP Specials and Juniors (i.e. -- the cheapo models with the bolt-on necks) have solid wood bodies. It's just that the body is made from 3 to 5 pieces of "leftover" alder and/or ash and/or mahogany and/or Asian mystery wood -- all wood that was leftover from making other geetars and basses. The Special and Juniors from about 3 years ago to now are a bit better than the earlier ones for some reason. I susect the newer ones have a solid peice of wood down the middle of the body -- thus giving a better neck-to-body connection -- whereas the older ones could easily have a jointed piece in the neck pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Oh, people have posted stuff analyzing the wave patterns of recordings using different variables. The real question is if you can hear the difference without the aid of a lab test. Some say yes, others say no. We'll never know, I guess. It's kinda like that old joke - if a tree falls down in the woods, and no one is there to hear it, does a hipster buy its album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 If you play distorted guitar to a noisy bar full of drunks then you could use a $5 ukulele and nobody would notice. Some of us have a different musical reality. This is a dumb argument, once again. People flipping between "is there a real difference" to "my gear is perfectly fine". Again and again and again and again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Buttcrust Posted December 14, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 thanks for the interesting comments.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 15, 2013 Members Share Posted December 15, 2013 No that stone guitar would be great for Stoner metal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted December 15, 2013 Members Share Posted December 15, 2013 They are sonically dead. I once bought a Squier Strat for my son back in the early 90s when they were laminated bodies. I tried upgrading the pickups and it was definitely an excercise in putting lipstick on a pig. I did learn from that experience. it also turned out the the cheapo stock pickups were a more correct voicing to get the most out of that guitar - they were hot and bold sounding. At the right angle you could also see a ripple effect in the shine of the body from the way plywood layers are peeled off the log. It seems to be a challenge to sand that stuff perfectly flat. I also bought a Takamine Jasmine 12-string back in the day be4 I knew any better (i.e. 1993) and after I'd had it awhile I also realized how sonically dead it was too (sounded better in the store). However, the only PLUS side to laminate top acoustic guitars was that they were far less receptive to feedback. The Takamine 341 was never a cheap guitar (often thought of as the Bruce Springsteen Acoustic/Electric) but it used one of those high pressure laminated tops with the intention of reducing feedback. But after public opinion tilted against using laminates (at least for the top sound board) Takamine changed that design to a solid top. ES-335s are for the most part still laminate tops to reduce feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thewthrman Posted December 16, 2013 Members Share Posted December 16, 2013 GAS Man wrote: They are sonically dead. I once bought a Squier Strat [snip]. One squier strat that you gave up on hardly seems like compelling testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 16, 2013 Members Share Posted December 16, 2013 But only plywood guits I care for are the ones from the 70's and 80's like the Alembics, Ibanez Musicians, Gretsch Committees and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 16, 2013 Members Share Posted December 16, 2013 Like a wood sandwich. I'm not sure if that falls under the cats gory of ply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.scary96 Posted December 16, 2013 Members Share Posted December 16, 2013 Like a wood sandwich. I'm not sure if that falls under the category of ply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted December 16, 2013 Members Share Posted December 16, 2013 Mr.scary96 wrote: Like a wood sandwich. I'm not sure if that falls under the category of ply Well the one I had (Ibanez LP) was chambered if that's what you mean. And yes it did sound pretty good actually - which I attribute to an acoustic effect. But it didn't really have the roundness of tone of a proper Les Paul IMO. I mean I've talked about my cheap all-laminate acoustic that projects as well as any acoustic I've played. Sounds great for certain things, just doesn't have the overtones or sonic complexity of my Japanese built no-laminate Alvarez Yairi. Regarding the videos people have provided to bolster their position, can't say as I'm much impressed with the sound of those plywood Strats - they sound a bit uneven to me, as well as wimpy. Now the sustain and sound of that second stone guitar clip, I thought was rather impressive. Maybe the stone is acting as a giant hardware bridge which transfers the energy to the wood fingerboard which acts as the body in this case. Definitely the best argument I've seen so far for "stone-wood". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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