Do Muslims work?

[Craig Vecchione]

Originally posted by Smorgasboy I think it's hilarious that the same people who rail against the MSM and claim they don't present an accurate picture of what is happening in Iraq, also have no problem saying, "Gee, I saw all them Muslims on TV dancing around an effigy" and assume it must be an accurate portrayal of all Muslims everywhere.

 

 

 

Really. Did I say this? Or did I state that we see nothing different on our media? I made no assumption at all.

[RSBro]

Originally posted by Craigv I'd hate to think that Europe is repeating history once again and allowing a malevolent neighbor build strength.

"Wouldn't wanna hafta bail you guys out again, like in, dublya dublya two!"

[ranjaman]

Gotta love HC for threads like this.

Just to clear up some issues:
1) Islam is not a centrally organized religion, like catholicism is.
The whole muslim world is made up of a lot of different organisations, most of them have reacted in a peaceful way to the pope's speech.
For example, the spokesman for Muhammadiyah, one of the biggest organisations in Indonesia, condemned the violent reactions and has asked muslims all over the world to remain calm, whether or not the pope apologises.
But unfortunately, peaceful people are not news-worthy.

2) The Turkish AKP is not an extremist party, they are pretty rightwing and conservative, but they believe in combining a secular, democratic goverment with muslim values, much like a lot of conservative christian parties all over Europe.

3) The man who shot John Paul II was in fact a Turkish muslim, but while there are a lot of theories about his motives, none of them have anything to do with islamic extremism. Incidentally, a Spanish priest tried to stab him a few years earlier.

The biggest problem with anti-islamic rhetoric is that it hides the real source of the problems, which is welfare, these nutcases just use religion as an excuse.
Someone noted earlier in thread that a lot of places are poor, but not violent.
If so, name one.
The proper approach to solving a problem starts with defining the problem, extremist islamism is a symptom, not the source.
I agree that fighting symptoms can be necessary, but it's not a solution.

[lug]

Originally posted by ranjaman Someone noted earlier in thread that a lot of places are poor, but not violent. If so, name one.

Lug's house.



smacks uppity kid.....


OK, scratch that.

[B-Bottom]

Originally posted by ranjaman Gotta love HC for threads like this. Just to clear up some issues: 1) Islam is not a centrally organized religion, like catholicism is. The whole muslim world is made up of a lot of different organisations, most of them have reacted in a peaceful way to the pope's speech. For example, the spokesman for Muhammadiyah, one of the biggest organisations in Indonesia, condemned the violent reactions and has asked muslims all over the world to remain calm, whether or not the pope apologises.

What I don't get is the fact that they need to be told to remain calm. if not they will shoot a nun or burn something down. I can't get my head around that. It sounds like we're dealing with children..... Murderous children. I just don't see a logical way of dealing with people like this

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by Smorgasboy Archie Bunker, Joe McCarthy and David Duke all rolled into one. Quite a piece of work. Unrepentant troll, or consumed by hate? Tough call.

I fail to see anything racist about the comment you're responding to with this. Or are you just trying to bean somebody with the race card again?
C7

[B-Bottom]

Vatican tries to calm Pope row as militants vow war
Reuters - Mon Sep 18, 7:32 AM ET

VATICAN CITY - Al Qaeda militants in Iraq vowed war on "worshippers of the cross" and protesters burned a papal effigy on Monday over Pope Benedict's comments on Islam, while Western churchmen and statesmen tried to calm passions. The statement by an umbrella group led by Iraq's branch of al Qaeda came after the Pontiff said on Sunday he was deeply sorry Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by Smorgasboy Archie Bunker, Joe McCarthy and David Duke all rolled into one. Quite a piece of work. Unrepentant troll, or consumed by hate? Tough call.

Hey! Rodney.

 

C-C-Can't we just, just all get along??

 

Cum bye ah, cum bye ah.

 

That is your theme isn't it?

 

In reality, the hate on this forum originates from all you 'tolerant' extremist lefties........

 

You love terrorists? Want to see the US get hammered again? I thought so.

[82Daion]

Originally posted by B-Bottom What I don't get is the fact that they need to be told to remain calm. if not they will shoot a nun or burn something down. I can't get my head around that. It sounds like we're dealing with children..... Murderous children. I just don't see a logical way of dealing with people like this

I think that the "remain calm" is kind of a blanket statement, rather than an order. Most Muslims would never do anything of the sort, just as most Americans didn't go killing every Arab they saw after 9/11. It's the violent minorities, just like any other extremist situation.

Oh, and Hawkhuff-how does your signature explain Timothy McVeigh?

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by B-Bottom what are you talking about? We're talking about Religion here, not racism. Let me clarify something that many people have already pointed out. I know that some Muslims work, the title of the thread was tounge in cheek. But again like so many others have pointed out, we never see pictures from the Middle East of groups protesting anything other than something about the West or Israel. We never hear about any of these clerics preaching anything other than their 11 century nonsense. I mean do you realize that their were mass protests all across the world about a group of cartoons......{censored}ING CARTOONS!! You know I wish 20/20 or Date line would do a hidden camera thing inside a mosk instead of the sexual predator stuff that is the guaranteed ratings grabber. I think thatwould have a tremendous impact on the preceptions that most Americans have. Of course as soon as video of that came out we'd probably see effegies of Stone Phillips burning in the streets of the Middle East.

Stop!! What's wrong with you??

 

There is nothing but peaceful activities in ALL mosques.

 

What the Hell is wrong with you? Spank yourself.

 

20/20 wouldn't do that, it doesn't fit their agenda. Now if it were a church, fair game but not the mosque. It is not PC.

 

Violent demonstrations, burned and gunned churches, one shot the last Pope, a dead nun. Peaceful. Peaceful.

 

Love this don't you smorgy?? I'll bet you do.

[RSBro]

Originally posted by B-Bottom What I don't get is the fact that they need to be told to remain calm. if not they will shoot a nun or burn something down. I can't get my head around that. It sounds like we're dealing with children..... Murderous children. I just don't see a logical way of dealing with people like this

+2. Like there needs to be instructions for these people to follow that you can't murder someone in no way even related to the person you're mad at, just because you feel like it??
And WE'RE the "barbarians" here?
Right.

[82Daion]

Originally posted by hawkhuff In reality, the hate on this forum originates from all you 'tolerant' extremist lefties........ You love terrorists? Want to see the US get hammered again? I thought so.

Ad hominem, oh how I love thee...

[Thunderbroom]

While I haven't read through this thread yet (I'm at work and actually working), it has been brought to my attention that name-calling and personal insults have entered the thread. Please check the FAQ for the forum rules and reacquaint yourselves. When I do get a chance to read through the thread, if this apparent stuff is continuuing, I'll move the thread.

Please play nice.

Thanks!


-Jeff

[82Daion]

Hawkhuff-
Take a moment, step back, calm down, breathe, do whatever.

The introduction of the idea that not all Muslims act like raging, bloodthirsty barbarians into this thread doesn't mean that us "lefties" love terrorists or want the US to get attacked again. It simply means that some of us understand that there is a MINORITY of Muslims who behave in this manner, and it's this sect that is problem. It's not the other billion or so who act peacefully and would do nothing of the sort.

However, you're so hateful and blinded that you're incapable of understanding that. It's kind of like saying "All of the black people in America should die, because a minority propogate gang activity!" Take a second and look at yourself-honestly, you're not making yourself look any better than the "islamofascists."

[JoeBlast]

Ya know what the BEST part of all of this pope controversy is?


For all of the articles I've seen, I have yet to see even ONE that gave the context of this quote. Context is everything with something like this.
Great, pick out one piece that can be interpreted in a most foul manner and run with it. Thanks, media.

I have no opinion of this because I still havent seen how the quote was used. You dont just flip out quotes, you use them as a reference to a current message, especially if the quote is hundreds of years old.

Hell, even if we're talking a movie quote from something last year, you still use it in a contextual manner to convey something.

Who here knows what the pope was trying to convey?? Has anyone seen the context? I've been unable to find it.


People tend to flip out about stupid {censored} when their premise is a woefully incomplete picture.

[niomosy]

Originally posted by hawkhuff That's just exactly the point. The moslems don't want to live in this world because as many of you forumites love to point out, the big bad US and its proxy, Israel are to blame for all the pain and suffering in the world. And the poor 'disinfranchised' arab youth have nothing better to do with their time than to be outraged and to suit up with the C4. Poor poor boys. Gee, if they are such peaceful and charitable people then what happens to all that money you and I send there? Where is it? Freedom of religion, yes, that is practiced all over the moslem world, isn't it? Freedom of speech, yes, that is practiced all over the moslem world, isn't it? Women are allowed to vote and live free, they are not told what to do and what to wear, yes, that is practiced all over the moslem world, isn't it? When you grow up you should expect to live free and die by the sword a violent death so you may live in paradise with your virgins, yes, that is practiced all over the moslem world, isn't it? RRRRReeeeaaaaallllll peaceful religion, isn't it? And yes, we must excuse this kind of barbarism because the UN and Europe thinks we should all get along. So, Jazz, terrorism has become routine to you huh? Good for you! :rolleyes: Have you and your countrymen surrendered once again?

Hawk, you forget that it wasn't so long ago that Christian women were in about the same boat as Muslim women. The U.S. hasn't been around all that long and women certainly haven't had a lot of their present rights for the entirety of the U.S.' existance.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by 82Daion Hawkhuff- Take a moment, step back, calm down, breathe, do whatever. The introduction of the idea that not all Muslims act like raging, bloodthirsty barbarians into this thread doesn't mean that us "lefties" love terrorists or want the US to get attacked again. It simply means that some of us understand that there is a MINORITY of Muslims who behave in this manner, and it's this sect that is problem. It's not the other billion or so who act peacefully and would do nothing of the sort. However, you're so hateful and blinded that you're incapable of understanding that. It's kind of like saying "All of the black people in America should die, because a minority propogate gang activity!" Take a second and look at yourself-honestly, you're not making yourself look any better than the "islamofascists."

Who the hell are you to tell me what I am thinking? I don't hate them all but most, if not terrorists, are facilitators. You want to wear those rosy glasses be my guest.

News flash.

A moslem cleric just called for the execution of the Pope. Heard it on the news.

Yep, I am the hateful one.

Your personal attacks bore me. :bor:

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by niomosy Hawk, you forget that it wasn't so long ago that Christian women were in about the same boat as Muslim women. The U.S. hasn't been around all that long and women certainly haven't had a lot of their present rights for the entirety of the U.S.' existance.

True, but we don't cut their heads off.

 

Most of the rest of the world, has moved into the 21st century.

[ranjaman]

Originally posted by B-Bottom What I don't get is the fact that they need to be told to remain calm. if not they will shoot a nun or burn something down. I can't get my head around that. It sounds like we're dealing with children..... Murderous children. I just don't see a logical way of dealing with people like this

 

 

I agree completely, but my point was that there are moderate voices in the muslim community and they do speak up.

[Fran da Man]

Originally posted by Rob Martinez The pope gave a response today that hopefully will appease the fascist bastards.

Im thinking maybe it didn't...

[King Kashue]

Originally posted by Rob Martinez KK, the government of Turkey is as close as a Muslim country has come to having a democracy. Still, their reaction to the pope's comments show that, just under the surface, they stand against the west, when push comes to shove. The pope gave a response today that hopefully will appease the fascist bastards.

 

 

 

First of all, people need to stop using the term "Facist", Bush is no longer using it, and for good reason, since they way people are using it is not what the word means...

 

 

Second, Turkey is not "close" to a democracy, it's just as much a Democracy as those in Western Europe...If that's unclear, you need to brush up on your geopolitics...

 

You're conflating the popular reaction and public condemnation with official stance and response.

 

Even with a conservative islamic party having a parlimentary majority the government itself remains explicitly secular...

[King Kashue]

Originally posted by hawkhuff Your personal attacks bore me. :bor:

If you're so bored when you come here and troll, why do you continue to return?

[lug]

Originally posted by JoeBlast Ya know what the BEST part of all of this pope controversy is? For all of the articles I've seen, I have yet to see even ONE that gave the context of this quote. Context is everything with something like this. Great, pick out one piece that can be interpreted in a most foul manner and run with it. Thanks, media. I have no opinion of this because I still havent seen how the quote was used. You dont just flip out quotes, you use them as a reference to a current message, especially if the quote is hundreds of years old. Hell, even if we're talking a movie quote from something last year, you still use it in a contextual manner to convey something. Who here knows what the pope was trying to convey?? Has anyone seen the context? I've been unable to find it. People tend to flip out about stupid {censored} when their premise is a woefully incomplete picture.

 

 

I find this quite odd as well. But i'm too jaded aboot the general media to be suprised anymore.

[B-Bottom]

Originally posted by Fran da Man Im thinking maybe it didn't...

you know you'd think with all the effigies they make they would be able to construct something that doesn't look like a pre schooler made. They actually had to write that it was the pope at the bottom so you know what the thing is.

[King Kashue]

Originally posted by JoeBlast Ya know what the BEST part of all of this pope controversy is? For all of the articles I've seen, I have yet to see even ONE that gave the context of this quote. Context is everything with something like this. Great, pick out one piece that can be interpreted in a most foul manner and run with it. Thanks, media.

 

 

 

Every single article I've read has stated the context and source of the quote...what have you been reading...

 

 

He was quoting Manuel II Paleologus, a Byzantine Emperor. It was a line from a Byzantine Dialogue of the 15th century, and he was doing so to illustrate that religious tensions are not a new thing...