Members wades_keys Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 I bring my rig for ME. If the audience likes it, great. If not, {censored} 'em. The best a house system can do is give you a clean DI sound. That's not necessarily what I'm looking for in a live setting. To me. it's same as playing a backline show...sure it'll work, but I prefer having my rig - I know exactly how it will sound with effects and i don't have to ask anyone to tweak it if something's not right. I'm with you 100% on this - both your attitude and your approach. I've tried recording with the DI from my sansamp and it seriously lacks compared to what I get from my cabs. I don't have the money for a good speaker sim like a Palmer either, so I'll be mic'ing my cabs and going to FOH with that - best of both worlds for me. I don't understand players who put the audience ahead of themselves - how can you give an inspired performance if your not grooving on your tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 10, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 You guys are such losers. Everybody knows that equalizers kill the subtle nuances of sound that draws audiences in. EQ is the death of tone. You need more picofarads. *You're* a loser. And you can't comment at all unless you've copied my exact modifications. I know what I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 10, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 I don't understand players who put the audience ahead of themselves - how can you give an inspired performance if your not grooving on your tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 I don't understand players who put the audience ahead of themselves - how can you give an inspired performance if your not grooving on your tone? I spend a good amount of time tweaking before a show to get the sound just right, but once I am actually onstage playing, my tone is probably the last thought in my head. I'm listening for pitch and time to stay tight, but the rest of my focus is on freaking out and putting on an awesome show, not whether or not I should boost the low mid another notch or roll back the highs . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted December 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 I once had an awesome tone and was playing to an empty house. That was some uninspiring {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 Agreed. I think his point is, if he's not inspired to play, the entertainment he is providing the audience is going to suffer. Hence, making sure he gets what he needs to be inspired is actually important for the audience, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 I once had an awesome tone and was playing to an empty house. That was some uninspiring {censored}.But was the place empty because you had awesome tone? I doubt it. I don't understand the point....If we play through PAs instead of of stage rigs everyone will like us and come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'm with you 100% on this - both your attitude and your approach.I've tried recording with the DI from my sansamp and it seriously lacks compared to what I get from my cabs.I don't have the money for a good speaker sim like a Palmer either, so I'll be mic'ing my cabs and going to FOH with that - best of both worlds for me.I don't understand players who put the audience ahead of themselves - how can you give an inspired performance if your not grooving on your tone? You could try grooving on the music instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 I once had an awesome tone and was playing to an empty house. That was some uninspiring {censored}. I suppose - we all have different priorities. Mine is to just have fun and try to be inspired by playing solid music - the crowd if any is just the icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 You could try grooving on the music instead. Well of course - who said the two were mutually exclusive? I just don't subscribe to this "cookie cutter" mentality of going direct; which is to say, use your ears and if it works for you, go for it - but understand that some just will not be satisfied with the sonic results and will choose another option. It's not that I obsess over tone - far from it. But I've got a tone that I like and when that's not happening it just doesn't work for me. I tried going direct, and it doesn't work for me. Apparently Bob N. has had a similar negative experience - but I guess he's "wrong" too? And let me add that IMO Bob N. has a stellar tone, far better than most - so I truly respect his opinions on matters of tone - I ain't arguing with Eric Johnson on tone and i won't be arguing with Bob either. My ears guide the decisions I make first and foremost - cuz yeah, I play music for me primarily. I have to - it's a feedback loop, dig? I just can't do it any other way - the whole point of making live music for me is to be able to hear all the nuances of your own playing and react in real-time accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 You guys out there that have to have YOUR rig to get YOUR tone need to get a clue. Start thinking about what's best for your band. Being in a band means making compromises. It's not just about you. Think about what is best for the band as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 Well of course - who said the two were mutually exclusive?I just don't subscribe to this "cookie cutter" mentality of going direct; which is to say, use your ears and if it works for you, go for it - but understand that some just will not be satisfied with the sonic results and will choose another option.It's not that I obsess over tone - far from it. But I've got a tone that I like and when that's not happening it just doesn't work for me.I tried going direct, and it doesn't work for me.Apparently Bob N. has had a similar negative experience - but I guess he's "wrong" too? And let me add that IMO Bob N. has a stellar tone, far better than most - so I truly respect his opinions on matters of tone - I ain't arguing with Eric Johnson on tone and i won't be arguing with Bob either.My ears guide the decisions I make first and foremost - cuz yeah, I play music for me primarily. I have to - it's a feedback loop, dig? I just can't do it any other way - the whole point of making live music for me is to be able to hear all the nuances of your own playing and react in real-time accordingly. Excellent post. Especially regarding the feedback loop. For better or worse, the more my own ears enjoy my own music, the better and more enthusiastic I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted December 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 But was the place empty because you had awesome tone? I doubt it. I don't understand the point....If we play through PAs instead of of stage rigs everyone will like us and come out? No, I'm not downing stage rigs and saying that everyone should abandon them. My point is that running through the PA is not necessarily a bad thing. There are several things about playing music that are inspiring. Having a good sound is important, but playing music that you enjoy with other players who inspire you while embracing the attention from a crowd who gives a damn is also very important. Musicians who try to carry the room with their rigs while relying on the PA for nothing but vocals rarely sound as good as bands who let the PA do the work. This is particularly true for weekend warriors who lack the years of stage experience to know what to listen for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 You guys out there that have to have YOUR rig to get YOUR tone need to get a clue. Start thinking about what's best for your band. Being in a band means making compromises. It's not just about you. Think about what is best for the band as a whole.What about the mature players in the house whose rig and tone are specifically adapted for the best for the band as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 You guys out there that have to have YOUR rig to get YOUR tone need to get a clue. Start thinking about what's best for your band. Being in a band means making compromises. It's not just about you. Think about what is best for the band as a whole.MY band happens to like MY tone. See. It's not all about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 But was the place empty because you had awesome tone? I doubt it. I don't understand the point....If we play through PAs instead of of stage rigs everyone will like us and come out? If you play through stage rigs, and are able to get a quality mix that is consistant throughout the venue you are playing, at levels your target audience expects, you do not need a quality PA. Most bands cannot do this. In R&R and modern country, I like to reinforce the kick, this requires a pretty decent PA. We use a soundman, minimize our stage volume and run everything through the PA. The sounguy adjust vocal levels as lead singers swap from lead to harmony parts, brings up solos, adjusts instrument levels to fit the song, and controls the over-all volume of the band. All things that 1. I don't believe can be done very well from stage.2. I wouldn't want to do from stage, I just want to pay attention to the groove on stage and the audience. The few times I have to attend to FOH while playing, it detracts greatly from the pleasure I get from playing live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 Well of course - who said the two were mutually exclusive?I just don't subscribe to this "cookie cutter" mentality of going direct; which is to say, use your ears and if it works for you, go for it - but understand that some just will not be satisfied with the sonic results and will choose another option.It's not that I obsess over tone - far from it. But I've got a tone that I like and when that's not happening it just doesn't work for me.I tried going direct, and it doesn't work for me.Apparently Bob N. has had a similar negative experience - but I guess he's "wrong" too? And let me add that IMO Bob N. has a stellar tone, far better than most - so I truly respect his opinions on matters of tone - I ain't arguing with Eric Johnson on tone and i won't be arguing with Bob either.My ears guide the decisions I make first and foremost - cuz yeah, I play music for me primarily. I have to - it's a feedback loop, dig? I just can't do it any other way - the whole point of making live music for me is to be able to hear all the nuances of your own playing and react in real-time accordingly. I didn't say anyone was wrong. I merely responded to you saying that you had to have a certain tone to groove. I don't. I groove on the music. Ever listen to old recordings? A lot of them sound like complete {censored}e. But the music is still good, and they were hits because of that. Nobody cared about the tone. I used to play with a guitarist who had to futz with his amp for a minute or two between songs, every time, to get his tone just right for the next song. If he'd cared as much about the music as he did the tone, we wouldn't have lost the momentum with the audience as often as we did, and we'd all have been grooving a lot more. None of that is to say that I don't appreciate the difference in tone among my instruments and amps. I do. Occasionally, I'll find a really sweet spot, where I think it sounds especially good, and I might groove on that for a while. Ultimately, though, it's not about the tone, it's about the music. Audiences don't care about tone, as such. They only care if the band engages them, either to listen or to dance. Tone might contribute to that, or it might distract from it, but it is rarely, if ever, the main thing driving it. At this point, someone might ask who I play for, myself or the audience. Both, but mainly for the audience. I can play for myself at home. As a band, we can play for ourselves at rehearsal. When I'm on stage at a venue, it's about the audience. They're the ones who make it all possible. They pay us, directly or indirectly. They pay to keep the venue open. They determine whether or not we'll be asked back. If they're happy, most likely I'm happy. Everything else is secondary, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 You guys out there that have to have YOUR rig to get YOUR tone need to get a clue. Start thinking about what's best for your band. Being in a band means making compromises. It's not just about you. Think about what is best for the band as a whole.Nice speech, but maybe you can tell me how my using my stuff isn't best for my band? I'm willing to make a compromise on anything if there's a reason for it...but I'm having a little trouble with the idea that I'm being selfish by lugging my own junk into a venue, setting it up, and sounding as good as I reasonably can. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 Am I missing something? Yes. You have a complete understanding of the concepts at issue and practical experience in their application. You are missing all sorts of inexperience, naivety and misplaced self-righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neonfacelift Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 I don't understand players who put the audience ahead of themselves - how can you give an inspired performance if your not grooving on your tone? You mean, professionals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 Yes. You have a complete understanding of the concepts at issue and practical experience in their application. You are missing all sorts of inexperience, naivety and misplaced self-righteousness. Sorry, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 You are missing all sorts of inexperience, naivety and misplaced self-righteousness.And really what is a band except for a bunch of inexperienced, naive, self-righteous dudes searching, completely independantly of each other, for the perfect tone. :D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 Sorry, my bad. Sucks to be you! :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2007 And really what is a band except for a bunch of inexperienced, naive, self-righteous dudes searching, completely independantly of each other, for the perfect tone. :D:D This ties into my previous post in another thread about a young punk scene being an integral part of any local music scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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