Anti-socialist pledge.

[Kindness]

Im OK with that, and I personally would NOT like to have socialized anything , but what other options are there?

 

 

For insuring everyone? There are none. For reducing costs and efficiencies there could be many, but the proposed plan(s) are not really for that purpose.

[t3ch]

 

You are 100% correct. If high costs or inefficiencies were the actual issues (rather than the smokescreens used for political debate), then the proposed plan(s) would be worthless. The real issue is a policy movement for insuring everyone and revising regulations of the health insurance industry. Shifting the insurance burden (in part) to the government will do little to nothing to reduce costs/inefficiencies. It is all a policy play.

 

 

There was an economist from the U. of Chicago (iirc) who recently-ish put out an article on the issue... He estimated of the supposed 50mil people that were out of healthcare, only about 10mil were REALLY in dire-need and want of healthcare. The rest were young people opting out, illegal immigrants, etc.

 

I'm not sure how this is necessarily relevant to your response, but it seems like an important piece to chew on when debating whether or not to be the good guy and try to please everyone. I for one am not terribly unhappy if only 3% of the population are without insurance. Seems pretty successful if you ask me.

 

Having said that, I've only had minimal interaction with the healthcare industry, and can tell there IS room to improve all around. Costs and procedure are a little out of hand nowadays.

 

But again, I in all honesty do not really know a ton on the subject. Grain of salt and all...

[Kindness]

There was an economist from the U. of Chicago (iirc) who recently-ish put out an article on the issue...

Yeah, I know him.

I don't mind the insurance system how it is, but there are lots of people that want to cover everyone and eliminate the pre-existing conditions exclusions. I don't really have strong feelings on that issue at all.

I am interested in controlling the costs of healthcare, but that type of legislation isn't even being considered at present.

[t3ch]

Yeah, I know him. I don't mind the insurance system how it is, but there are lots of people that want to cover everyone and eliminate the pre-existing conditions exclusions. I don't really have strong feelings on that issue at all. I am interested in controlling the costs of healthcare, but that type of legislation isn't even being considered at present.

Well aren't you special. Give him a hi5 for me, and let him know some loser dude from a Virginia CC economics class posted about him on the intarwebs

I am probably in the same boat as you. I get free insurance through my work and do not have a family, so I do not have any particularly strong feelings on the issue. I would of course like to see the outlandish cost of healthcare curbed however (who wouldn't).

[Orph]

 

socalized = socialism both canada and the uk are socialist countries. if you want health care get a job just like the rest of us. im tired of paying for you not having a damned job and getting jobless benefits. yeah, thats right we are paying for you to be on unemplyoment. get a job, get health care. done. ikestr

 

 

You are wrong. Canada and UK are socialdemocratic countries. There's a huge difference. How this works is that the more you earn, the more tax you pay (and I'm sorry, I can only relate this to the Norwegian market), so those with poor jobs (earning about 30 000$ a year) pay maybe 25% tax, while those earning well (about 100 000$ a year) pay nearly 40-45% (of course, you have a {censored}load of deductibles), and there's a sliding scale inbetween. This is a good system imho. We're always safe, we get the help we need (even the poor ones).

 

You hate paying for those that doesn't have a job, but you're okay with paying the profits for the greedy money-grubbing owners of the insurance-companies ? Because that's what you are doing. If I had the choice, I would rather help a fellow human being being cured of cancer, than stuff some corporate fat cat's pockets full of wads of cash. But that's me, I've actually got a heart.

 

I love living in a social democracy that WORKS. I get to do what I want, I pay some taxes, and education and healthcare basically costs me nothing. And I live in a country where the government fears ME, not one where I fear the government.

 

Now, if my government could only do something about this goddamn weather !?!?!?

[Kaesh]

Dear Norwegian, the thing is, 25% PIT is already a {censored}ton

Also how does the government fear you, have you opposed it it any way and succeeded?

And yes, I would rather my cash went into the pockets of insurance company managers than to the pockets of legions of parasite asshole clerks.

[DevilRaysFan]

For insuring everyone? There is none .

 

 

This is my point...so now you have the choice of: (A) I pay for it or (B) the government pays for it............. and Im sick and tired of paying for it (My family rate went up AGAIN last month!)

 

The government should have Socialized Medicine but the people should be able to choose it or not. Cant afford insurance? Then get on the Social Medicine. If you can afford insurance, then get what will be the rising benefits from insurance as premiums will be going down because insurance companies will be jockying for customers like wireless phone companies. insurance will mean better benefits and lower-than-now payments

 

 

It seems all a lot of people do is criticize the Socialized Medicine idea yet do nothing to come up with an alternate plan

 

Im sorry, I dont equate Socialized Medicine with communism....that would be like equating Social Security with communism (theres that damn 'Social' word again.......)

[wades_keys]

Anyone that calls people that attend the Tea Parties a "teabagger" is a {censored}ing idiot piece of {censored} with a whore for a mother. In other words, a {censored} for {censored} worthless asshole that hates freedom. To wit, a liberal. C7

What attracts you to the conservative ideology?

 

I'm serious.

 

I may be wrong, but you are in the lower income brackets, correct? You get the Earned Income Credit on your taxes, right?

 

I'm just wondering why you'd be such a vociferous proponent of a political party that will do nothing for you in your situation?

 

At least wait until you have a load of cash first, like my sister and brother in law did.

[georgestrings]

You are 100% correct. If high costs or inefficiencies were the actual issues (rather than the smokescreens used for political debate), then the proposed plan(s) would be worthless. The real issue is a policy movement for insuring everyone and revising regulations of the health insurance industry. Shifting the insurance burden (in part) to the government will do little to nothing to reduce costs/inefficiencies. It is all a policy play.

 

 

 

No doubt - one only has to look at Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA to realize that putting .gov in charge will hardly streamline anything... I also believe the proposed plan is a major info grab as well - and doen't bode well for the future of this country...

 

 

 

- georgestrings

[bnyswonger]

You are wrong. Canada and UK are socialdemocratic countries. There's a huge difference. How this works is that the more you earn, the more tax you pay (and I'm sorry, I can only relate this to the Norwegian market), so those with poor jobs (earning about 30 000$ a year) pay maybe 25% tax, while those earning well (about 100 000$ a year) pay nearly 40-45% (of course, you have a {censored}load of deductibles), and there's a sliding scale inbetween. This is a good system imho. We're always safe, we get the help we need (even the poor ones). You hate paying for those that doesn't have a job, but you're okay with paying the profits for the greedy money-grubbing owners of the insurance-companies ? Because that's what you are doing. If I had the choice, I would rather help a fellow human being being cured of cancer, than stuff some corporate fat cat's pockets full of wads of cash. But that's me, I've actually got a heart. I love living in a social democracy that WORKS. I get to do what I want, I pay some taxes, and education and healthcare basically costs me nothing. And I live in a country where the government fears ME, not one where I fear the government. Now, if my government could only do something about this goddamn weather !?!?!?

Please don't confuse the idealogues with your real life experience.

They hate that.

[ThudMaker]

What attracts you to the conservative ideology? I'm serious. I may be wrong, but you are in the lower income brackets, correct? You get the Earned Income Credit on your taxes, right? I'm just wondering why you'd be such a vociferous proponent of a political party that will do nothing for you in your situation? At least wait until you have a load of cash first, like my sister and brother in law did.

[t3ch]

What attracts you to the conservative ideology? I'm serious. I may be wrong, but you are in the lower income brackets, correct? You get the Earned Income Credit on your taxes, right? I'm just wondering why you'd be such a vociferous proponent of a political party that will do nothing for you in your situation? At least wait until you have a load of cash first, like my sister and brother in law did.

 

It's a pretty interesting concept, being able to stand for ideals and seeing what's fair and proper, as opposed to worrying about what perks are offered to you.

[Bluescout]

I smell patchouli.

I also like my healthcare just the way it is. I think the GVT should be augmenting the current system to "help" the poor and elderly and reducing costs for the privately insured. I'll say this: if you're getting something for free, it should be just enough to get by, not the same thing I pay a lot of money for.

[lug]

I watch the media very closely and so far I've gleaned that if the healthcare packages proposed so far pass, we will have free utopian healthcare for all at no cost but we must kill off all our old people with death panel firing squads to get it. Simple really, now let me get back to my movie...Logan's Run.

[Kindness]

I'll say this: if you're getting something for free, it should be just enough to get by, not the same thing I pay a lot of money for.

 

 

That's exactly what the policy is meant to address. The policy being promoted is to insure all at a very high level. I like seeing economic incentives, but the opposition sees affordable healthcare as a basic right, not a luxury.

[Orph]

Dear Norwegian, the thing is, 25% PIT is already a {censored}ton Also how does the government fear you, have you opposed it it any way and succeeded? And yes, I would rather my cash went into the pockets of insurance company managers than to the pockets of legions of parasite asshole clerks.

 

Perhaps 25% taxation is a lot, but to put it in terms everyone can understand:

 

I'm a mechanical engineer student. I work every other weekend. I get nothing but student loans, and whatever I earn working ~40 hours a month and full-time during the summer.

 

I have a {censored}load of disposable income, if I get sick, treatment is basically free, and the government reimburses me whatever salary I fail to earn if disease/injury prevents me from working for a limited peried of time (like when I had to have my hand cut open to fix some bones last year, and couldn't work for three months), and I pay no tuition, even though I attend the most prestigious school in the country (in the field of tech and science at least).

 

To make up for this, I pay taxes when I've finished my education.

 

Social democracy treats me well.

[toolbar]

I watch the media very closely and so far I've gleaned that if the healthcare packages proposed so far pass, we will have free utopian healthcare for all at no cost but we must kill off all our old people with death panel firing squads to get it. Simple really, now let me get back to my movie...Logan's Run.

 

 

RENEW!!!!

[jasper383]

Perhaps 25% taxation is a lot, but to put it in terms everyone can understand: I'm a mechanical engineer student. I work every other weekend. I get nothing but student loans, and whatever I earn working ~40 hours a month and full-time during the summer. I have a {censored}load of disposable income, if I get sick, treatment is basically free, and the government reimburses me whatever salary I fail to earn if disease/injury prevents me from working for a limited peried of time (like when I had to have my hand cut open to fix some bones last year, and couldn't work for three months), and I pay no tuition, even though I attend the most prestigious school in the country (in the field of tech and science at least). To make up for this, I pay taxes when I've finished my education. Social democracy treats me well.

 

 

Orph, the differences between Norway and the US on nearly every front: demographic, historical, economic, political, are so great, that they are almost a difference in kind, and not degree.

[LouSpaceMonkey]

You are all bat {censored} crazy, insurance of any kind is a scam. You never get out what you put in.

 

 

I watch the media very closely and so far I've gleaned that if the healthcare packages proposed so far pass, we will have free utopian healthcare for all at no cost but we must kill off all our old people with death panel firing squads to get it. Simple really, now let me get back to my movie...Logan's Run.

 

 

I vote we we do away with Lug first :poke:

[FreestyleIntruder]

 

I watch the media very closely and so far I've gleaned that if the healthcare packages proposed so far pass, we will have free utopian healthcare for all at no cost but we must kill off all our old people with death panel firing squads to get it. Simple really, now let me get back to my movie...Logan's Run.

 

 

Hey, that's what we do in the UK and it works just fine - we're never short of dogfood or glue

[lug]

You are all bat {censored} crazy, insurance of any kind is a scam. You never get out what you put in. I vote we we do away with Lug first :poke:

As always, the new rules don't apply to those who govern you, lowly serf!

[LouSpaceMonkey]

As always, the new rules don't apply to those who govern you, lowly serf!

 

 

Listen you old fart, don't make me turn you into Soilent Green

 

Soilent Green is Lug!!!!!!!!

 

[wades_keys]

It's a pretty interesting concept, being able to stand for ideals and seeing what's fair and proper, as opposed to worrying about what perks are offered to you.

That's a good answer, I suppose.

Perhaps this is why my stepfather, a self-made multi-millionaire, is a democrat.

The GOP does not have a monopoly on ideals.

[Kaesh]

Perhaps 25% taxation is a lot, but to put it in terms everyone can understand: I'm a mechanical engineer student. I work every other weekend. I get nothing but student loans, and whatever I earn working ~40 hours a month and full-time during the summer. I have a {censored}load of disposable income, if I get sick, treatment is basically free, and the government reimburses me whatever salary I fail to earn if disease/injury prevents me from working for a limited peried of time (like when I had to have my hand cut open to fix some bones last year, and couldn't work for three months), and I pay no tuition, even though I attend the most prestigious school in the country (in the field of tech and science at least). To make up for this, I pay taxes when I've finished my education. Social democracy treats me well.

I live in a social democratic country as well. I admit I don't have to pay tuition at the best university too, but:
-the student loan doesn't even cover rent for the {censored}tiest room in the city
-if I worked 40 hours a month that would barely cover food + the public transportation ticket
-the queues for any kind of serious treatment in the public healthcare range from several months to a couple years
-the government doesn't reimburse {censored}, the employer has to pay sick employees
-the dole is about the same as the student loan
Therefore I have no idea where does 40% of my paycheck go (19% PIT, the rest is social security). Dunno about the university as a whole, but my faculty supports itself through tuition from paying students (about 2/3 of students pay at my faculty).
Your social democracy may work because your country is filthy rich in general, but your wealth will inevitably dissipate through socialist wasting

[t3ch]

 

The GOP does not have a monopoly on ideals.

 

 

Sorry, I hadn't meant to imply they were. I was just trying to point out that his ideals match up with theirs regardless of whether he gets the most kickback from supporting them over someone else.