Members fanuvbrak Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Our lead singer is good, but has three distinct problems: 1. He dresses for gigs like he's going to a barbecue. T-Shirt, cargo shorts, and water shoes. And we're not kids, he's in his mid to late 30's. 2. His audience interaction comes across as badgering and whiny. "I wanna see some people dancing." "Really, people, you need to dance." "This song requires audience participation." 3. He doesn't play an instrument. So, he uses hand motions. He looks like a male interpretation of Celine Dion. I swear he's going to thump his chest and point towards the sky. And the more comfortable he gets, the worse he becomes. He "acts out" parts of songs (grabbing his head in Flagpole Sitter during the "voices in my head" part). At times he looks like an American Indian telling a story with his hands. The problem is, he thinks all of this is very cool and really contributes to the songs. I need a way to tactfully tell him he needs to dress at least a little better, stop badgering the audience, and be a little less Celine Dion. Or do I just come out and say it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 We had that with a band member in terms of his clothes. I called him up and said "hey man... wear cooler {censored} to the shows". He started dressing better. As for the hand motions and pantomime... um... man thats just weird. BUT - If it worked for Joe Cocker who knows. I think the best way to cut down on his talking to the audience is to cut out some hard stops on songs and go right from one to another. That would give him less time to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Seriously - just tell him. If he's looking ridiculous, it only makes the band look the same. Worse would be for you all to find him ridiculous and be rolling your eyes behind his back. I'd bust out laughing, but that's probably not too politic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ides of March Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Have you had any comments on this or is it just what you guys don't like? For the clothes instill a dress code type thing. No shorts, or must wear sneakers. Something like that. For the acting out thing, just tell him, can ya tone it down a little with the motions. If you have another member with a mic, have them jump in between songs and talk before he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faileddrummer Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Just tell him. Chances are he doesn't realize he's doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Has he seen himself on stage? Watching video of yourself can be very humbling. Maybe he is just not aware of how he looks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 18, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 18, 2009 Video. If you get it on tape you just watch it together and the appropriate moment give him a, "dude..." Make sure everyone else is with you and ready to back you up. He'll get it. then be ready to let him know where on the tape he's doing the right thing. What's working. You gotta give him the right and the wrong for him to get it probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fanuvbrak Posted May 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Has he seen himself on stage? Watching video of yourself can be very humbling.Maybe he is just not aware of how he looks... Last time we played out, most of the people I brought said that his hand motions were too much. We videotaped that whole show. He's seen bits and pieces of it, but I have the whole, ugly thing to give him tomorrow. Hopefully, he'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ides of March Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Video. If you get it on tape you just watch it together and the appropriate moment give him a, "dude..." Make sure everyone else is with you and ready to back you up. He'll get it. then be ready to let him know where on the tape he's doing the right thing. What's working. You gotta give him the right and the wrong for him to get it probably. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 we have cut down our "hard stops" and now we run most of our songs together. Makes a huge difference and IMO makes the whole show better. No one came to hear you speak they came to hear you play. easy way to do this is set up your list that if everyone starts the 1st song the next few are started by one member of the band... thereby having a bunch songs strung together. for instance you can do this: (just using songs for example) 1. Any way you Want It- journey (every comes in together)2. Dani California (drummer starts)3. Jenny (guitarist starts)4. Blister In the Sun (guitarist starts)5. Jesse's Girl (Guitarist Starts)6. Song 2 (drummer starts) you get the point. right there is like 15 minutes without stopping and without your singer saying dumb stuff into the microphone... or even worse... the dreaded "dead air" as far as dressing the part goes. Just tell him.the acting out stuff a little here and there may add to show but again just tell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rebelwoapplause Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 An observation and a few questions, though, about the gesturing. Observation: I have heard that those on stage should exaggerate their gesturing. I've heard this for the theatre and for musicians. A singer/frontperson who has no instrument has to do something with their hands, and gesturing is a natural. I'm not talking about acting out every part of a song, but moving is better than looking stiff, or so I am told (and experience when I am out watching other bands). Question 1)Have you heard criticism from anyone other than those you invited to the gig(s)? Question 2)Were your invitees' criticisms impromptu or in response to your asking them? Question 3)Are other bandmates feeling the same way? Question 4)Could you get another singer from some other band you know (who is confident and not looking to join your band) to look at the video and give you some feedback? The fourth question is really important. The singer could put you at ease about the gestures, or point out which ones work and which really are over the top. The challenge is you want your front man to be out front. To do that they have to be bold. If you handle this wrong, your band could come off looking much worse when the frontman stands at the front of the stage, clinging on to the micstand with both hands. Good luck. Rebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 As far as dress code goes, it's good to have a "sliding scale" dress code, with different levels: barbecue (shorts and t-shirts), casual (pants and t-shirts), business (slacks and collared shirt), and formal (tails and cummerbund). Most of your gigs will be "casual" (I assume), but you avoid having to tell the guy he's dressing like a slob, he's just been at the wrong level on the scale. As for the hand motions, I bet the guys in Genesis were embarrassed when Gabriel started showing up in the crazy outfits. You have to give allowances for personal style, no matter how annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Centaur Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 No matter how you tell him, he's gonna be insulted and take it personally. That's just what people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Just throwing this out there: If I saw a band and the singer was a REALLY good vocalist who made random weird gestures I might think it was a cool part of the show. If I saw a band with a singer who sucked and made weird gestures I would think it was a massive fail. In other words, go ahead and fix the clothes issue. He won't take it personally. Just make sure you call him and mention it instead of outing him in front of the band. If he DOES have the pipes to pull it off, let him Joe Celine Cocker Dion it up all night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Janx Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 I agree with ACB. Dress code is important. For a band, it shouldn't be ridiculously strict, but image matters, so the band has to look like they fit (even if its a don't fit look). Gesturing and theatrics is hard to say. I suspect that a singer SHOULD be gesticulating and moving around. The question is, does it fit? That's a choreography question. The singer should be moving around and such to enhance the song and emote whatever the heck the song needs. He shouldn't look like a dork. However, like the other thread about front man filling dead space, at practice or on stage, the band is going to think the front man looks like a dork doing that stuff (even the guy doing it may feel dorky). That's not what the audience may see. Video tape it, and show the video to non-band people. See what they think. Don't lead them into "how dorky our front man looks". Just hand them the video and say, "tell me your thoughts on our stage presence" If they complain about the lead singer, then fix that. You may find that they think he's great, and the backing band needs to move around more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Well, #2- I hate badgering stage patter. You might point put that sometimes an audiance needs a rest, that people in clubs often just want to socialize with friends, chat up the chicks, or just drink unmolested. The band is not the center of their universe. It is unrealistic to expect their total participation all the time. So suggest he save that for when you kick a real barn-burner. #3 might be your solution to #1. Tell him it's obvious that he cares a lot about communicating the content of the songs, that he put's a lot into it, BlahBlahBlah, but it looks ridiculous coming from a guy that dresses like the last towel dryer at a car wash. #3-- No idea. You could suggest it'd look great on a big stage, but he could try to be more subtle at clubs. You might be stuck with it. Maybe he'll tire of it over time. Anyway, prioritize the problems, and work on them one at a time. If you dump too much on him at once you'll just piss him off and get nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chadd Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Never create an adversarial relationship with the people that are paying to see you play. It's always positive, always upbeat, always encouraging. If people aren't participating or dancing, you need to figure out why they are still sitting there on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fanuvbrak Posted May 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Maybe it's not as bad as I thought... This has a little bit of it in it: [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Asking people to come to a dance floor is like asking people to come to a restaurant and not telling them what kind of food they serve. Your singer just did the singer version of "just the tip". If you'd done the song with an extended intro and had him ask for dancers it would have worked, though. Just play the riff over and over with the drums and bass and people recognize the song and are more apt to hit the dance floor when asked. As for the gestures, they are a little show-tune-ish for my taste but I didn't have a problem with them. I say just get him some jeans or pants and you are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rebelwoapplause Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 I think asking people to the dance floor when there's no music playing is tough. However, it worked for him, somehow. This makes me think he may have had some connection with some of the people, because a few people did go to the floor. So, it means either they are his friends, or he had some rapport with the crowd, so something was working for him. The gestures were, as ACB says, a little show-tune-y, but they didn't make me think poorly of him or the band, just not my taste. Two other quick observations. First, the stage was small, so the only way to get some movement was hand gestures. A bigger stage might give him some place to put some of his energy, and make it work even better. Second, if you stop his hand gestures, the rest of you are gonna have to become more animated and try to connect with the crowd. Indeed, even if he keeps his movement, it'd be nice to add some movement in the rest of the bandmembers FWIWRebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 18, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 18, 2009 Yeah, I lot of your issues would be solved by keeping the music going as others have suggested. He's not afraid of the crowd so that's good. A little show tuney but hey, he's got the idea. The rest of the band seems uncomfortable though. Dead air. You hear him talking. You get embarrassed. Keep it rolling. Song to song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 He is a little out there but not too bad, at least he is animated. As far as the clothes go I think all of you guys should try a little harder. That look seems more in line with an original metal band than a cover band. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 He needs to talk less and just get to the music already...seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted May 18, 2009 Members Share Posted May 18, 2009 total euphemisms for "gay" used this thread thus far = 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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