CL Fail, think we have the winner

[Kramerguy]

http://reading.craigslist.org/muc/1750225148.html

 

Indie Film seeks music for soundtrack

 

THIS FILM IS CURRENTLY IN PRODUCTION.

 

*********************************************

 

If you've ever wanted to hear your songs featured in an independent film now is your opportunity. The producers of Schizo Effect are currently taking submissions from independent artists and bands for the soundtrack.

 

We are seeking all types of vocal and non-vocal recordings.

 

Check out SchizoEffect.com and send an email to Soundtrack@SchizoEffect.com for more details on how to have your recordings featured.

 

Thanks for your time & consideration,

The Producers

 

*********************************************

 

There will be no royalties paid for any songs featured in the film. This is for exposure only.

 

x infinity

[BATCAT]

I don't get what's so bad about the ad.

 

Ultra low-budget films usually can't afford to pay for their music. I let a guy making a movie use one of my songs for free last year, in fact.

 

[Vito Corleone]

I don't get what's so bad about the ad. Ultra low-budget films usually can't afford to pay for their music. I let a guy making a movie use one of my songs for free last year, in fact.

 

Agreed. Nobody much is likely to see "Schizo Effect" when and if it ever gets released, but what can possibly be bad about a band being able to say "2 of our songs were featured in the film "Schizo Effect"?

 

The odds that such a movie is going to go on to make $100 million and you're going to feel like a fool for giving your song away for free are very, very, very slim.

[3shiftgtr]

I don't get what's so bad about the ad. Ultra low-budget films usually can't afford to pay for their music. I let a guy making a movie use one of my songs for free last year, in fact.

 

Yeah, giving it away has done wonders for our industry.....

[BATCAT]

 

Yeah, giving it away has done wonders for our industry.....

 

 

It's probably a film school project, or something done by a few friends out of their own (not at all deep) pockets.

 

Saying that letting some tiny independent film that 100 people are going to see use a song for free... is pretty much like saying playing a few songs on an acoustic guitar in your bedroom for a few friends- for free- is going to put gigging bands out of business.

[Kramerguy]

If it's that tiny, then why would exposure even be considered a valid selling point?

 

I'm tired of seeing the term "exposure" being used in place of money

[Vito Corleone]

 

If it's that tiny, then why would exposure even be considered a valid selling point?

 

 

So let me get this straight---if the audience is NOT tiny, then the film makers should pay for the exposure they are giving to the music, but if it IS tiny, then they shouldn't even call it 'exposure'? Is there ANY level of exposure at which free-music-for-exposure would be a fair trade, in your opinion?

 

If this film's audience is tiny, then I think the trade is fair: you're not losing out on royalties because there wouldn't be any to speak of, and you get the right the to claim your music was used in a film which, even if the film is completely unknown, will still look good on a resume and perhaps impress some potential clients down the road.

[Austincowbell]

doesn't bother me... it's an indie film with no budget. If it goes Blair Witch or Paranormal and goes huge you get an instant record deal. If it does nothing...well.. you get nothing and you just gave them use of a track which you own.

[wheresgrant3]

I've submitted soundtrack work I've done royalty free. A local guy was making an indie horror short and needed some music and ambient noise to fill the soundtrack. In fact lots of ambitious soundtrack composers are trying to get their start in the indie film market. As long as you are the credited composer there's nothing stopping you from offering the same music when a paying project comes along.

 

This is not a 'crazy' deal. It's how indie and students films get made in NYC all of the time.

[ChordGirl]

Yeah, there's no way I'd give anyone use of my work for nothing. I don't care who it is. I understand the idea of putting together a project among friends to create something with no budget--great! But if there was a chance the film made any money at all, the terminology excludes the songwriter's contributions regardless of what happens with the film. F@#$ that. Turns out, I get exposure every time I play a gig--right before I get paid by the place. That's all the exposure I'll ever need.

 

Now, I'd do it if there was some sort of a clause where if the film made X amount (where X is some significant profit to someone), I would get some royalties. To me, that's fair.

[ggm1960]

Here's a situation where both sides could benefit. Assume that these folks have some knowledge of cameras and video editing software like Final Cut. You, as a musician, might like to have some help in producing a music video for one or more of your songs at some point.

[Lee Knight]

 

Yeah, giving it away has done wonders for our industry.....

 

 

 

It's a different industry. It's pretty standard for film and TV guys to want to see some sort of track record. This is how you get it. Film and TV, unlike the music industry of late, actually pays. Once you're in. And this is the way to get in.

[srspud]

I provided songs for a 'little ski movie' that was not supposed to be a big thing. Next year and most years since I see it playing regularly on ESPN. The film maker definitely made some money on this and he got most of his parts for free.

 

I will never again send out something for nothing. The folks asking for your music wont provide you a film for free would they? Exposure? What a farce. I had one friend say that he saw my name in the credits. Any calls? Gigs? Recording sessions come of it? NOPE!

[Vito Corleone]

 

I provided songs for a 'little ski movie' that was not supposed to be a big thing. Next year and most years since I see it playing regularly on ESPN. The film maker definitely made some money on this and he got most of his parts for free. I will never again send out something for nothing. The folks asking for your music wont provide you a film for free would they? Exposure? What a farce. I had one friend say that he saw my name in the credits. Any calls? Gigs? Recording sessions come of it? NOPE!

 

 

 

If you're waiting for calls from people who see your name in the credits, nothing is likely to ever happen. But should you decide to pursue a paying soundtrack gig in the future, now you've got a legit film credit you wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

But you've got to pursue it.

[BATCAT]

Nobody in this thread is saying bands are obligated to just give their music away to independent filmmakers. But if they like the project, or of they want the, heh, exposure... that's fine. It's not like there's a bunch of bands earning a living by selling original songs to tiny tiny little independent films.

 

It's also a good way to make connections for people to do a video or live concert recording.

 

I dunno, this seems pretty low on the list of thing to worry about.

[vanlatte]

Yea as much as I too hate the "E" word, in this case it doesn't have quite the same feel as it does when it's a club/bar/festival/whatever.

[Lee Knight]

Exactly.

 

Forget the "E" word. It's the "C" word. It's a legitimate credit...

 

One wouldn't want to supply an endless stream of free music to amass credits but getting a few pieces of music used in legitimate works, and then using that as part of your personal campaign to get paying work...

 

...that works.

[BATCAT]

Yea as much as I too hate the "E" word, in this case it doesn't have quite the same feel as it does when it's a club/bar/festival/whatever.

 

Yes, I hate that word too. But...

 

The difference is that clubs who do "exposure" gigs are running a real business and making money off the bands they're getting to play for free.

 

Most tiny little indie films lose money. (Just like most tiny little indie bands, I should know) It's not like they're duping all these bands into giving them music and then going off and rolling in mountains of cocaine while drinking 16 year old single malt scotch.

[kmart]

I've had songs from different bands in 3 films over the years:

 

One was a well-reviewed Sundance submission that nothing happened with. One was an indie horror flick that looked good enough to get picked up for wide distribution, or go direct to DVD at worst...

One was a student film a friend's younger sibling was doing.

 

Fully credited in all the flicks, got to go to the world premiere of the first...and nothing happened with either of the others.

Cost to me? Nothing, really.

Gain to me? No money in either Seeing your name on the big screen ain't too shabby, and honestly, the first one took 10 extra minutes in the studio we were already recording in and an hour to mix, and the others took me sending existing recordings.

 

It's usually a wash at best, but it certainly is rarely a total loss.

 

 

The huge fail in the CL post, however, is that there is ZERO information/specs on the types of music they are looking for as submissions, and they are in fact specifying "all types" of music...

 

Which is a surefire indication that either it's a scam of some sort, and they're going to use the music in some other way (and now they have it for free) or more likely, the people behind Schizo Effect have absolutely ZERO idea what they are doing, little to no concept of the direction/style of the film, and are thus absolutely unlikely to accomplish any sort of 'exposure' for any artists who do end up on the soundtrack.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Which is a surefire indication that either it's a scam of some sort, and they're going to use the music in some other way (and now they have it for free) or more likely, the people behind Schizo Effect have absolutely ZERO idea what they are doing, little to no concept of the direction/style of the film, and are thus absolutely unlikely to accomplish any sort of 'exposure' for any artists who do end up on the soundtrack.

 

 

They DO have a webpage, Facebook page and a movie poster designed.

 

http://www.schizoeffect.com/

 

It certainly appears they have a concept for the film, but I agree they probably have next-to-zero idea what they are doing in terms of any ability to get anyone (including their own film) any real exposure.

 

At the very least, try to make sure you get a copy of the DVD so you can play it for your friends and say "hey, that's my song right there!"

[Austincowbell]

 

I provided songs for a 'little ski movie' that was not supposed to be a big thing. Next year and most years since I see it playing regularly on ESPN. The film maker definitely made some money on this and he got most of his parts for free. I will never again send out something for nothing. The folks asking for your music wont provide you a film for free would they? Exposure? What a farce. I had one friend say that he saw my name in the credits. Any calls? Gigs? Recording sessions come of it? NOPE!

 

 

so... just playing devil's advocate here but lets say you hadn't sent him a song... what changes?

 

His film is still released and still shows on ESPN and you would probably be in exactly the same place musically where you currently sit. You certainly wouldn't be better off... Would you?

 

Did you agree to the terms of letting him use your song? Did you ask for a clause where if the film got picked up you would be paid? Are you asking that he violate a contract you signed for the purpose of paying you? Seems like you are mad at the wrong person.

[MartinC]

+1

The guy in the ad isn't paying no matter what. there at least should be an agreement that if money is made, it's gets spread around.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, there's no way I'd give anyone use of my work for nothing. I don't care who it is. I understand the idea of putting together a project among friends to create something with no budget--great! But if there was a chance the film made any money at all, the terminology excludes the songwriter's contributions regardless of what happens with the film. F@#$ that. Turns out, I get exposure every time I play a gig--right before I get paid by the place. That's all the exposure I'll ever need. Now, I'd do it if there was some sort of a clause where if the film made X amount (where X is some significant profit to someone), I would get some royalties. To me, that's fair.

 

[JailTime]

That's a tricky one, too. It may appear that the movie is making money, yet an artist may not see a dime. We don't really know if the "ski movie" made any money - or better yet, has generated enough revenue over time to offset the original costs of the production. With each showing, the grand tally may get closer to zero, but you as an artist don't really know - and there are sneaky ways to hide the truth.

 

I'd still ask for the clause, but unless the thing goes Blair Witch, no one is making much, ever, anyway, with little proof that they do or don't.

[BATCAT]

That's a tricky one, too. It may appear that the movie is making money, yet an artist may not see a dime. We don't really know if the "ski movie" made any money - or better yet, has generated enough revenue over time to offset the original costs of the production. With each showing, the grand tally may get closer to zero, but you as an artist don't really know - and there are sneaky ways to hide the truth. I'd still ask for the clause, but unless the thing goes Blair Witch, no one is making much, ever, anyway, with little proof that they do or don't.

 

I occasionally get enlisted by friends of mine who are independent producers or musician contacts to go be a "poor man's session drummer". We're talking artists with no label, basically no money, cutting a demo or doing a DIY album. I do this, usually for free, for the experience and because it gets me out there networking a bit.

 

I don't get all "I want something in writing that says if you go on to make a bunch of money, I want a cut!" I'd be seen as an unbearable twit if I did that. Because the chances anybody is going to see significant money are tiny. It's like me worrying that if I give a panhandler a dollar he's going to go buy a lotto ticket that'll win millions.

 

If some people making some tiny little movie want to use an already-released song from my tiny little band, and they ask nicely, chances are I'll say yes. It's not taking away any potential profit I could be making, and it might be of some small benefit to me. They likely don't have any delusions about their movie getting famous and I don't have any about my band getting famous, so it works out great for everyone.

[Austincowbell]

I occasionally get enlisted by friends of mine who are independent producers or musician contacts to go be a "poor man's session drummer". We're talking artists with no label, basically no money, cutting a demo or doing a DIY album. I do this, usually for free, for the experience and because it gets me out there networking a bit. I don't get all "I want something in writing that says if you go on to make a bunch of money, I want a cut!" I'd be seen as an unbearable twit if I did that. Because the chances anybody is going to see significant money are tiny. It's like me worrying that if I give a panhandler a dollar he's going to go buy a lotto ticket that'll win millions. If some people making some tiny little movie want to use an already-released song from my tiny little band, and they ask nicely, chances are I'll say yes. It's not taking away any potential profit I could be making, and it might be of some small benefit to me. They likely don't have any delusions about their movie getting famous and I don't have any about my band getting famous, so it works out great for everyone.

After thinking about it I sent these guys an instrumental electronic version of one of my songs. If I hadn't sent it to them it would have just sat on my hard drive forever. Now maybe it will be in a movie that 20 people will see. If the movie goes blair witch, neat. If it doesn't, I can live with that. I'd rather ANYONE simply heard my song than let it sit on my hard drive.