Members Vito Corleone Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 Who defines the "band leader" in a startup (assuming that the musicians don't already have previous dealings with each other). Usually the guy with the best gig connections. And/or the guy with the most dominant personality if his opinions are well-respected by the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chadd Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 Wow, this thread got goofy in a hurry. When one person has half the posts in a three page topic, and isn't the person that posted the initial question, it's almost a given that things have gone off the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 Usually the guy with the best gig connections. And/or the guy with the most dominant personality if his opinions are well-respected by the others. Agreed, but IME, it takes a little while for that person to assert himself/herself. Look, if you polled everyone in our band who the leader is they would all point to me. But I didn't go into day one with that attitude. It's just that I'm the one that sits around and racks my brain for new songs, puts together all the medleys, works with our manager regarding all bookings, etc. Additionally, I have to figure out how to play songs with multiple parts and/or keys all on a single guitar. In short, I put in the most time, by far (easily more than the other 3 combined) But I still don't dictate anything. It's just gotten to the point that, for example, we don't "vote" on what songs to learn. I email out MP3's and say "have this ready for the next practice". Every once and I while, I get an Email back with a "I'm not playing that crap" (all in good humor) and we discuss it and usually scrap that song. But for the most part, they trust my judgment on this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 Agreed, but IME, it takes a little while for that person to assert himself/herself. Look, if you polled everyone in our band who the leader is they would all point to me. But I didn't go into day one with that attitude. It's just that I'm the one that sits around and racks my brain for new songs, puts together all the medleys, works with our manager regarding all bookings, etc. Additionally, I have to figure out how to play songs with multiple parts and/or keys all on a single guitar. In short, I put in the most time, by far (easily more than the other 3 combined)But I still don't dictate anything. It's just gotten to the point that, for example, we don't "vote" on what songs to learn. I email out MP3's and say "have this ready for the next practice". Every once and I while, I get an Email back with a "I'm not playing that crap" (all in good humor) and we discuss it and usually scrap that song. But for the most part, they trust my judgment on this stuff. Kinda worked out the same in my band. We went into it with a "democracy" attitude, although the bass player was the point man for getting gigs: he knew every clubowner in town and is a natural salesman. But whenever we would refer to him as the bandleader, he quickly backed off it. As time went on I asserted myself more as the guy who picks the songs to learn, makes sure everyone has their MP3s, works out arrangements, writes up the setlist, etc. So we sort of co-leader the band at this point with me in charge of the music (with a lot of assistance from the drummer) and the bass player handling the business end. Works pretty well because we work to different members' strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 I go back to what I said 400 posts ago. In a newly forming band where the members are not familiar with each other, I want to know 3 things: 1. Do we get along? 2. Can we play? 3. Do we like/want to play the same basic type of music? If the answer to these are yes, let's play some music and let it evolve naturally. and that's how it happened with us. It really did go from a phone call from John our singer in 2002 saying hey, my wife said you play drums, come on up let's jam in my garage, your cousin mike is coming over... After a few get togethers pretty much all 3 of the questions were answered. #3 is up for debate sometimes but isn't it always? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 Who defines the "band leader" in a startup (assuming that the musicians don't already have previous dealings with each other). In that case it would be whoever is starting the band. Presumably that person has some goals, and they should define what they are. Really, a huge determining factor of whether a band will stay together is whether everybody's on the same page with their goals for the band. If one person has it in their head that 6 months of woodshedding before playing the first gig is just great, and another person wants to be gigging in 2 weeks, that's a problem. If one person wants the band to be a democracy and another thinks that having a strong leader is better, that's a problem. And so on. Again, it doesn't imply that anything has to be set in stone, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask a few questions (or, if you're the one starting the band, lay out a few of your own objectives) and then decide whether you can live with the answers. It could save a lot of wasted time, and if you do decide that you're willing to compromise because you like the music and the people, at least you know where everybody stands. I go back to what I said 400 posts ago. In a newly forming band where the members are not familiar with each other, I want to know 3 things:1. Do we get along?2. Can we play?3. Do we like/want to play the same basic type of music?If the answer to these are yes, let's play some music and let it evolve naturally. Which is certainly great for original bands (that is how mine started), and it might even work for some cover bands if everyone is willing to have the same type of attitude. But your idea in itself has some underlying assumptions. There are a lot of people, particularly in cover bands, who don't care whether they get along with the other band members, and don't care whether they like the music. They just want to make money and play out, and they consider that the whole purpose of a cover band. And if you were dealing with that type of person, you'd want to know, right? If you don't have a prayer of meeting someone's expectations, it's better to know that up front, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 There are a lot of people, particularly in cover bands, who don't care whether they get along with the other band members, and don't care whether they like the music. They just want to make money and play out, and they consider that the whole purpose of a cover band. And if you were dealing with that type of person, you'd want to know, right? If you don't have a prayer of meeting someone's expectations, it's better to know that up front, no? I totally agree with you in this type of situation. One aside, at this stage of my life, I do this for fun first and money second, so I probably wouldn't want to play with the guy you described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 When one person has half the posts in a three page topic, and isn't the person that posted the initial question, it's almost a given that things have gone off the rails. Fine. Feel free to discuss this and any other topics on this board. I speak my {censored}ing mind and I get called "goofy", "defensive" and god knows what else. Y'all can kiss my a** - I guess I've got better things to do so that's where I'll be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dk123123dk Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 wades nothing personal, but you were acting defensive. dk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 I totally agree with you in this type of situation. One aside, at this stage of my life, I do this for fun first and money second, so I probably wouldn't want to play with the guy you described above. I know I wouldn't! Which doesn't mean there's anything wrong with his goals or mine - it just means we shouldn't be in a band together, and the sooner we know that the better, so we can get on with looking for people who are a better fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 I know I wouldn't! Which doesn't mean there's anything wrong with his goals or mine - it just means we shouldn't be in a band together, and the sooner we know that the better, so we can get on with looking for people who are a better fit. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 Now, it's very true that you might not come down on a definitive answer one way or another on this question, but personally I would never want to be in a band that couldn't have an internal discussion about how things were going to work - with the understanding that we're not going to agree 100% of the time. We're all different, but finding the common ground and common goals are essential to having a solid band.This. I find it really interesting that a few people have actually interpreted the asking of questions to mean that someone is coming into a band with a checklist of demands, or trying to lay out their own agenda. They're questions, folks. A question means "I'd like to know what you think," not "this is what I think and you'd better do it this way." And asking these kinds of questions is good for all parties. It doesn't stop the band from evolving, or from being spontaneous. It's just getting an idea where everybody is at with their goals, to see if it's a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 19, 2010 Members Share Posted June 19, 2010 This. I find it really interesting that a few people have actually interpreted the asking of questions to mean that someone is coming into a band with a checklist of demands, or trying to lay out their own agenda. They're questions, folks. A question means "I'd like to know what you think," not "this is what I think and you'd better do it this way." And asking these kinds of questions is good for all parties. It doesn't stop the band from evolving, or from being spontaneous. It's just getting an idea where everybody is at with their goals, to see if it's a good fit. Exactly. Every band is, to some degree or another, a compromise. (Unless you're getting hired to be a sideman for the Joe HotShot Project or something.) It's almost like a marriage. You gotta date each other for awhile and get to know each other to see if the whole hook-up is gonna fly.And hopefully you're all much better together than you can be individually.But just because you ask "play for the crowd or play for ourselves" doesn't mean its gotta be my way or the highway, or strictly one way or the other. Most likely you find some nice compromise that works best for everyone AND the band as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted June 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Okay, this thread got interesting over the weekend. I guess my main point in starting it is to compile a list of questions that could (probably informally) be discussed in a new band situation, because of two situations that turned out different that I thought they were going to be. One band could have been a killer hit song cover band because the individuals are really good but they want to play obscure covers with odd time signatures. Another band (again) could have been a good hit cover band but they want to write originals. On the other hand, a THIRD band told me up front that they only want to play once every month to 6 weeks, which works for me cause I'm pretty booked up in yet another band. If they had told me that they want to work as much as possible I would have had to turn them down, and that turned out to be my favorite band. So, you never know! The thing is there's really no right or wrong in bands, as long as everyone gets along and is on the same page. Problems occur when, as mentioned, one guy doesn't have a job and needs the money from gigging and the rest of the band just wants to play in the garage, or one guy wants to play hits like Lady Gaga and Pink and the rest of the band wants to play the complete Dark Side of the Moon album. Anyway, thanks for all the responses. There's a lot of good things to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Who's responsible for bringing the beer to practice? That's important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Who's responsible for bringing the beer to practice? That's important! Last one to arrive has to bring the beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 beer at practice is a deal breaker for me. You are either there to work or drink. If you are there to drink its your business but I will be loading out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 rock 'n roll without beer????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 rock 'n roll without beer????? If you cant go though a practic without beer ,, odds are good that booze will become an issue later down the road. I wont play with people who have issues with booze. Its a deal breaker. Practice is work time from my point of view. A beer at a gig or two i can deal with. We only have one guy who drinks in the band I play with. He keeps it under control. I am no saint,, but practice is a serious time for a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 If you cant go though a practic without beer.... Oh, I CAN, and HAVE. I just don't WANT to. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Oh, I CAN, and HAVE. I just don't WANT to. :poke: Its not a big deal ,,, you are free to do what you want. I just know way too many musicans who have issues with booze ,, i would much rather play with poeple who are sober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Our bass player is a recovering alcoholic and doesn't drink at all. The drummer has a bit of a drinking problem and we have him on strict guidelines for how much he can drink at gigs. The guitarist drinks some, but doesn't like to at gigs. The rest of us can handle our intake. We're always professionals first. Especially at gigs. But splitting a 12-pack between 4 or 5 of us during rehearsal isn't a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Our bass player is a recovering alcoholic and doesn't drink at all. The drummer has a bit of a drinking problem and we have him on strict guidelines for how much he can drink at gigs. The guitarist drinks some, but doesn't like to at gigs. The rest of us can handle our intake.We're always professionals first. Especially at gigs. But splitting a 12-pack between 4 or 5 of us during rehearsal isn't a big deal. Whatever works for you. Having to babysit a drummer on how much he drinks would never work for me. sounds like way too much of a hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Whatever works for you. Having to babysit a drummer on how much he drinks would never work for me. sounds like way too much of a hassle. It isn't that hard. We're all adults and professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted June 21, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thread took a weird turn. There's plenty of middle ground between never drinking anything at practice and irresponsible drinking that interferes with getting things done. I mean, half the time I won't drink anything at practice, and the other half I'll have one or two beers. (very rarely more) Drinking two beers over the course of a two hour practice isn't going to make a productive rehearsal devolve into drunken pandemonium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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