If I was joining or starting a new band I would want clarification on a few things...

[New Trail]

...like:

1. Who's going to be the leader and how 'in charge' will he/she be?

2. What kind of music do we want to play?

3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us?

4. How often do we want to play?

5. Who will supply, haul, set up and run the PA and lights?

 

WHAT ELSE?

[Rezrover]

No power drinking before or during gigs.

[Shamdog]

Who supplies the chicks???

[wades_keys]

 

3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us?

 

Discussing that makes as much sense as discussing politics.

 

People have their beliefs and there is no sense trying to debate who is "right" or not.

 

Besides, that statement isn't as clear cut as you might think: what if that band has a full gig calendar, playing songs "just for us"? You don't think that can happen? Well, I know a lot of blues bands that would beg to differ with you.

 

All you have to do is look at their setlist and see if that's the kind of material that you would be interested in playing. Who are you to say that this song or that song fits "playing for the crowd" or not?

 

And why stack the deck against yourself by discussing this? Maybe you'll have an opportunity to work in other contexts with some of these people, even if their current band isn't a good fit. No need to make people think you're an argumentative dick or a "my way or the highway" type.

 

On that note, there's a band here locally that has gone out of its way to play the generic "what the crowd wants" {censored}. We play stuff that we like, that we also think the crowd will dig: Bill Withers tunes and other whatnot that doesn't get much play.

 

Our band has no shortage of gigs. That other band is sitting on its ass: so much so that their drummer was ready to sit in with us with less than an hour notice because as he put it: "I could use the money"

 

So you might wanna check your preconeptions about "what works" at the door: what works is a good solid leader, gigs that don't require you to do much if anything to get and secure, and a good group of reliable guys that can have fun playing music.

 

I'd rather gig songs that "we like" than talk about "what the crowd wants" in the basement with a band that's going a big bunch of nowhere.

[Kramerguy]

Blues bands aside, you aren't going to pack a place playing covers of Yes, Rush, and Kansas like you would pack it playing any brown-eyed skynyrd standards.

 

It's a good question to ask IMO.

[wades_keys]

Blues bands aside, you aren't going to pack a place playing covers of Yes, Rush, and Kansas like you would pack it playing any brown-eyed skynyrd standards. It's a good question to ask IMO.

No it isn't

 

All you need to do is check their calendar and setlist. If you don't like what you see, then pass gracefully.

 

Or you can choose to walk into a possibly working band and try to put your "vision" of what works out there, at the audition no less.

 

Just because you can't think of a way to make "it" work doesn't mean someone else hasn't found a way to make it work. The calendar don't lie.

[Kramerguy]

wha??

 

He said joining or STARTING a new band. In starting a new band, it's a damn good question to put onto the table. jeez...

[kmart]

I came into my current band with a set of very specific questions mainly because I had been in a band with the leader before in an originals setting, it was my first foray into covers territory, and I had decided I had specific goals in mind IF I was going to actually do it.

 

Since I was coming into something that was already somewhat established, I wanted to make sure I wa on the same page with goals as they were.

Here's some initial notes I made to myself:

 

1) Overall business model/plan

 

[wades_keys]

 

wha?? He said joining or STARTING a new band. In starting a new band, it's a damn good question to put onto the table. jeez...

 

Even in that context, I disagree.

 

The setlist tells the tale: the willingness or unwillingness of others to play certain songs tells the tale.

 

These "high level" discussions about "playing for the crowd" or not never get anything accomplished except for starting arguments. Or maybe you get the lip service, but then those same guys want to shoot down every song that you think "plays to the crowd".

 

Who the hell gets to decide what that means? See, it's all subjective isn't it?

[Kramerguy]

well I see where this is going

 

[wades_keys]

well I see where this is going

I guess you just can't get your head around the concept of this being subjective?

 

So who gets to decide whether a given song is "playing for the crowd" - you? The guitarist? The singer?

 

If you made that demand of me ("play songs for the crowd"), I'd take that as code for: "Pick a popular local band and rip off their setlist"

 

Thanks, but no thanks! There are dozens of bands trying that and failing to keep things going. I don't want to add to that cluster{censored} - I'd rather be in a project that is doing something a little different from the rest of the pack.

 

You may feel differently, and that's cool: but when you word it in a subjective way, you make it sound like the alternative choice is an inferior, unworkable choice.

[Outrider]

I think you're smart for trying to get a handle on all those things before you start. It avoids a bunch of heartache and wasted effort on down the road. Just be careful how you ask these questions because you might step on toes, or OTOH you might find an opportunity to become a valuable addition.

 

- Who handles the booking/point of contact

- What is the marketing plan (flyers, www, facebook, etc) and who's in charge of getting it done

- How do you go about picking the individual songs in your niche that you play

*** - HOW WILL THE MONEY BE HANDLED

[bnelly428]

...like: 1. Who's going to be the leader and how 'in charge' will he/she be? 2. What kind of music do we want to play? 3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us? 4. How often do we want to play? 5. Who will supply, haul, set up and run the PA and lights? WHAT ELSE?

 

1. Ok

2. Ok

3. Fair enough, but it's not as cut and dry as stated, songs for "us" will be songs that people find fun to play or like to listen to. We play tons of songs that I don't listen to (i touch myself - divinyls) but enjoy playing

4. Directly relates to #2 and #3. You can't be a Killswitch Engage Tribute band and play 8 times a month successfully

5. Very good point. This is the point where a lot of bands get into fights over and hold grudges. A lot of money can be spent in this area (if dont correctly can bring your band from one tier to the next) so clear concise plan of how this will operate is a great idea.

 

6. I would ask of each person if they had issue with finding a replacement for them if a last minute show popped up and they weren't available. We have had to have back ups on call in case someone couldn't get off of work etc.

 

7. How often and where will you practice.

 

8. What are the potential venues you'd like to play, and see what those bands are doing so you have an idea of what you need to be doing to get into said venue. Again you can't be a KSE tribute and play at a square dancing bar :poke:

 

9. Transportation for previously mentioned PA. Will it be more economical to hire a soundman for each show so you do not have to purchase equipment or transport the equipment.

 

10. How far is everyone willing to travel to play (and for how much)

[Yer Blues]

...like: 1. Who's going to be the leader and how 'in charge' will he/she be? 2. What kind of music do we want to play? 3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us? 4. How often do we want to play? 5. Who will supply, haul, set up and run the PA and lights? WHAT ELSE?

 

Based on my current situation, here is "what we say" vs. "what we really mean"...

 

1. Say: This is a new band, there is no leader, are opinions are all equal. Mean: I am saying this now because I am clearly establishing myself as leader, I'm just letting you think I care about others opinions as much as my own.

 

2. Say: I like all kinds of music, if it works we will play it. Mean: We're going to play the same songs I have been playing for 20-30 years.

 

3. Say: If we like the music and are having fun the crowd will like the music and have fun. Mean: We're playing the same songs I have been playing for 20-30 years, we will be getting the same pay I got 20-30 years ago, and I will make sure to complain about it without being flexible enough to make any changes.

 

4. Say: 6-7 times a month. Mean: With the places that will pay us what we want we will be lucky to play twice a month.

 

5. Say: I have a PA. Mean: I have a PA and will make sure I am the loudest in the mix.

 

[TrickyBoy]

...like: 1. Who's going to be the leader and how 'in charge' will he/she be? 2. What kind of music do we want to play? 3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us? 4. How often do we want to play? 5. Who will supply, haul, set up and run the PA and lights? WHAT ELSE?

 

Wow, I just formed a band last year and we didn't do any of these things really. If we did anything, it was the following:

 

1. Do we all get along? Check

2. Can we all play? Check

3. Do we all like and want to play the same basic types of music? Close enough for Jazz

 

LETS ROCK!

 

We figured if we gigged once a month at a dive bar for our friends we'd be happy. We added Meagan last November and we're already playing some of the top rooms in town 3 times a month and turning down lots of other gigs. And we're all having a blast and we're nothing like we thought we'd be originally.

 

I think a band HAS to evolve. Personally, if I came into a first practice with a forming band and one dude had a checklist and very concrete ideas of what they wanted the finished product to be like, I'd run.

[wades_keys]

 

1. Who's going to be the leader and how 'in charge' will he/she be? 2. What kind of music do we want to play? 3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us? 4. How often do we want to play? 5. Who will supply, haul, set up and run the PA and lights?

 

I like YerBlues take - let me try:

 

 

1. Who's going to be the leader and how 'in charge' will he/she be?

 

I want to be able to bitch about shortcomings to somebody and have them do all of the work to make it right.

 

 

2. What kind of music do we want to play?

 

I don't have a {censored}ing clue as to what I want or should do. However, I'll be more than happy to disagree with and shootdown ideas from those that do.

 

 

3. Are we playing "for the crowd" or just for us?

 

I expect to be the official spokesperson on behalf of the crowd. I expect that you will play no songs that don't meet my approval.

 

 

4. How often do we want to play?

 

Rather than tell you how often I would like to play, I'll ask you what you want to do. Then I'll disagree with whatever you have to say.

 

 

5. Who will supply, haul, set up and run the PA and lights?

 

Which one of you idiots is going to put up the cash to finance my rockstar ambitions?

 

I damn sure won't be helping you move your gear, but I'll gladly expect it to be there, in proper working order, ready for me to use as I see fit.

[bnelly428]

 

Personally, if I came into a first practice with a forming band and one dude had a checklist and very concrete ideas of what they wanted the finished product to be like, I'd run.

 

 

Not saying that you shouldn't run in this case, but there are several successful bands in my area that had the setlist and venues before the band. I would suspect that the members take it more as a business than to blow off steam from their 9-5.

 

They also are the highest paid bands round hur /shrug

[TrickyBoy]

 

Not saying that you shouldn't run in this case, but there are several successful bands in my area that had the setlist and venues before the band. I would suspect that the members take it more as a business than to blow off steam from their 9-5. They also are the highest paid bands round hur /shrug

 

 

I guess if you've got all pros that have been around the same scene for a while, it's doable. I was completely new to the scene, so I guess my initial goals were different.

[uab9253]

Just play Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl over and over and over again. That's what any crowd wants...

[wades_keys]

Just play Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl over and over and over again. That's what any crowd wants...

The crowd doesn't book the bands.

 

See - here's the deal as I see it.

 

You go copy someone else's setlist, known good. Okay, got it.

 

But how in the hell do you think you're gonna get gigs - in the same rooms that the band you copied plays?

 

Why the hell would the guy book you there, when he already has a good, proven band doing that kind of material?

 

And people wonder why they can't get out of the basement.

[uab9253]

I'm only basing my sarcasm on my local area, nestled right in the armpit of all that is unholy about local music venues. Mustang Sally gets you gigs. They never tire of it. It's otherworldly to watch...

[wades_keys]

 

I'm only basing my sarcasm on my local area, nestled right in the armpit of all that is unholy about local music venues. Mustang Sally gets you gigs. They never tire of it. It's otherworldly to watch...

 

Yeah, but that's the establishment working....A lot of these cats got their foot in the door years ago, or they know somebody.

 

If the formula were really that simple, every basement band that ever copied a popular setlist and could play okay would be out there gigging with no trouble.

 

But that's not how it really works, is it?

[Kramerguy]

 

I guess you just can't get your head around the concept of this being subjective? So who gets to decide whether a given song is "playing for the crowd" - you? The guitarist? The singer? If you made that demand of me ("play songs for the crowd"), I'd take that as code for: "Pick a popular local band and rip off their setlist" Thanks, but no thanks! There are dozens of bands trying that and failing to keep things going. I don't want to add to that cluster{censored} - I'd rather be in a project that is doing something a little different from the rest of the pack. You may feel differently, and that's cool: but when you word it in a subjective way, you make it sound like the alternative choice is an inferior, unworkable choice.

 

 

I merely pointed out that I agreed that talking about who the band intendes to pander to, itself or the crowd (or venue), was IMO, a good idea.

 

You then turned into an argument about walking in and trying to take over an existing band, and I pointed out that I meant a startup project.. to which you then turned it around to equate everyone will just argue over it, so why bother.

 

Well even if everyone is on the same page as playing self-indulgent music vs. playing music to suit the crowd, people will STILL argue about it according to you, it's a wonder any group ever finalized a single set list, which is why I just gave up,

 

And then when I pointed out what I believe to say "you just want to argue with people", you then accuse me of being overly subjective and encouraging people to rip off set lists.

 

WTF? I never said anything about ripping off setlists, or trying to take over an existing band, or be argumentative with everyone on day one about set lists.

 

But you seem to enjoy this so keep knocking them out of the park. I'm still saying, quite vaguely, that #3 is a good idea. You are arguing insane semantics that don't even apply to every situation. It's like forming a band today and kicking the guitarist out tomorrow because you KNOW he's gonna turn up too loud at a random venue someday 3 years in the future.

 

you took what could have been a good thread and turned it into a redundant debate. way to go.

[modulusman]

 

The crowd doesn't book the bands. See - here's the deal as I see it. You go copy someone else's setlist, known good. Okay, got it. But how in the hell do you think you're gonna get gigs - in the same rooms that the band you copied plays? Why the hell would the guy book you there, when he already has a good, proven band doing that kind of material? And people wonder why they can't get out of the basement .

 

 

Sure fire way to stay in the basement is to play only the songs you want. Unless your taste is the same as whatevers popular. I'm with Kramer guy here if I was joining a new band I damn sure want to know what kind of songs we were going to play. IMO any band that doesn't know a bunch of the songs like mustang/brown eyed/Alabama isn't doing themselves any favors. Just because you know them doesn't mean you have to play them. Last week we played Brown eyed girl because it was requested. We hadn't played it in over 6 months. Last night we played our first guest ranch job this summer. The owners favorate song is "Pancho and Lefty" we hadn't played that since last August.

[rhat]

My feeling is that you really never know what a band is going to be ,, until you have a band. When people start layiing down details before they even really know who and what they have to work with its typically a disaster.

 

You get some good musicans together and you form a band. What the end product ends up has so much to do with who you recruite that over planning tends to get in the way. When I put together the last band I formed ,, i had no idea in hell that it was going to end up a 7 piece soul/jazz rock/ top 40 band. You could not have planned that thing if you had wanted to. It was the perfect storm and it worked.