Guitar Wankery and The Blues...

[TrickyBoy]

Don't expect me posting up Eruption soon...it's a bitch...seriously...but when I do, I will wear a robe for you......

 

 

In all seriousness, there's an excellent 3 or 4 part series on youtube that was posted on a thread a while back on HC The Lesson Loft all about learning Eruption. If you're serious about learning it, it's a great resource.

 

Use the search function and find it.

[John Davis]

Yeah the Youtube vid your talking about is excellent...I also have it on Guitar Pro, and the offical book/cD/Tab.

Currently stuck on the first hammer on pull off lick.....

[DevilRaysFan]

Hmm, that seems odd. What kind of a crowd do you hang with? I know tons of huge blues fans who wouldn't know a PRS from a Dano.

 

 

It seems like its like that in, not only my area, but spackled throughout my state (Florida) like a cancer.................

 

Ive played music professionally for over 25 years. The blues in Florida (in general) wasnt like that before ©1994.

 

Even the music industry as a whole are wise to the "Rich Man's Hobby" blues: I have never seen so many boutique multi-$K amp companies appear like in the last 15 years - all catering to the new "instant blues tone" demand. Guitar companies like both Fender and Gibson are wise to it. Im pretty sure that they dont have the working musician in mind when they make their $3000+ commemorative and reissue pieces: those are designed with the collector in mind. It just so happens that a good many of these collectors (in my area) also happen to be these same "Blues Nazis" that seem to control much of the genre in my state (as in gigs, venues, jams)..Its a shame really: its more about the gear than the tear..................

 

and the SRV conversation in this thread? Thanks to the Yuppie Blues, I think hes more popular now then he was when he was alive..................

 

TRUE STORY: About 5 or 6 years ago, I was at one of these jams talking to an acquaintance who happens to be one of these Rich Man Blues Hobbyists. This guy has a massive collection of both vintage and boutique guitars and amps and, for the most part, is generally a nice dude. He was talking to me about a Live SRV DVD he found at a Circuit City or Best Buy or whatever and he was telling me that "Stevie was playing all his solos wrong"....It was everything I could do to not (A) tell the guy he "just doesn't get it" and (B) keep from falling down in hysterical teary-eyed laughter................... The scary part, though, is that many of these same guys have that exact same mindset (Lets play the "note-for-note" blues), and part of the reason why the "Rich Man Taking Over The Blues" is such a pet-peeve issue with me on these forums.

[New Trail]

 

In all seriousness, there's an excellent 3 or 4 part series on youtube that was posted on a thread a while back on HC The Lesson Loft all about learning Eruption. If you're serious about learning it, it's a great resource.....

 

 

Yeah, hey, too bad Eddie didn't have that when he was learning it...:poke:

[TrickyBoy]

Yeah, hey, too bad Eddie didn't have that when he was learning it...:poke:

 

 

Neither did I when I was learning it note-for-not on an old LP that I had to keep picking up the needle and moving it back 1/8" over and over again to get a part right. I'm just saying that if he wants to learn it, learn it right and there's some good stuff out there to help him do that.

[Vito Corleone]

Neither did I when I was learning it note-for-not on an old LP that I had to keep picking up the needle and moving it back 1/8" over and over again to get a part right.

Well, you always had the wonderful option to find a turntable that played at "16" speed and then you could play the part at 1/2 speed but 1 octave lower!

And we also all had the joy of trying to figure out lyrics on songs without lyric sheets or the internet

[vanlatte]

Well, you always had the wonderful option to find a turntable that played at "16" speed and then you could play the part at 1/2 speed but 1 octave lower! And we also all had the joy of trying to figure out lyrics on songs without lyric sheets or the internet

Ah, the good ol' days. I burned up many a cassette tape with constant pause/rewind/replay

(see what I did there?)

[Yer Blues]

I would say the OP is describing something often done by "geezer bands".

"We only have 30 songs.... we'll just do some extended solos."

I really don't see guys like Freddie King, Albert King, BB King, T Bone Walker, Buddy Guy, etc as doing extended jams. Yeah, they stretch it out some live but it's not an endless repeat of them just jamming over a blues progression. Those guys were also really good singers, whereas guys at blues jams take the "lyrics are just wasted time in between solos" approach. Not too mention how tasteful a guy like Albert King is when he plays a lead. There's not a lot of notes, but it's certainly not easy.

[Roy Brooks]

I would imagine that if you were to think of all the folks you know who play an instrument only a very small percentage of them are going to be full blown music geeks. And only a small percentage of those full blown music geeks are going to be blues music geeks. In fact a lot of blues, especially rural blues and urban blues with rural origins, can be an acquired taste. Most people aren't going to get quite that deep into it to ever get to a point that they hear a whole lot of those old blues records. Most people are going to hear the stuff that is most accessible to them. It is much easier to find Eric Clapton and SRV records than it is to find Robert Pete Williams, Houston Stackhouse, and Lonesome Sundown records. So odds are that a budding guitar player in this day and age is most likely going to get turned on to "the blues" from listening to Eric Clapton or SRV. Or they might hear Jimi Hendrix do "Red House". And until they really dig deeper they might not get exposed to obscure blues recordings from fifty or more years ago. And until they do they may never know that this other weird stuff exists.

Blues jams and jams in general serve a purpose. They are a good way for budding musicians to learn how to play well with others. And sometimes they can be good places to network. I personally have gotten quite a few paid gigs because I went to jams and gave out my number. But when you get a bunch of people in a room who don't play together regularly odds are that you are going to have to stick to very simplistic and similar sounding music. There probably won't be much syncopation or playing through changes going on. Add to that the fact that most of the musicians at these jams are not going to be seasoned professionals. This can definitely lead to wanking. I reckon it is just the nature of the beast.

[JoeDirt]

Is this John Davis character that guy that keeps getting banned around? Trolling again?

[John Davis]

Roy...

Nice to hear from someone that gets what a blues jam is about.

[Vito Corleone]

Is this John Davis character that guy that keeps getting banned around? Trolling again?

 

 

yes.

[New Trail]

 

.....Blues jams and jams in general serve a purpose..... But when you get a bunch of people in a room who don't play together regularly odds are that you are going to have to stick to very simplistic and similar sounding music. There probably won't be much syncopation or playing through changes going on. Add to that the fact that most of the musicians at these jams are not going to be seasoned professionals. This can definitely lead to wanking......

 

 

I'm not even talking about blues jams or jams, or even open mic night, or even karaoke. Those are totally different. I'm talking about old man blues bands that thrive on wankery rather than playing songs with parts.

[SeniorBlues]

I'm not even talking about blues jams or jams, or even open mic night, or even karaoke. Those are totally different. I'm talking about old man blues bands that thrive on wankery rather than playing songs with parts.

Ummm . . . some of us old men get off on playing blues songs that stretch the standard I IV V a bit which require you to hear the changes rather than pick them off the studio recording or tabs. And some of the wankers at these sessions are the young guys that went way back . . . to Hendrix, SRV, etc. for their inspirtation, as Roy pointed out

Some of the blues jams in the DC metro area are hosted by full time pros. That doesn't mean that they will attract only other full timers, but in my experience so far, there are enough good players that show up to make this format preferable to learning inflexible, beat-to-death top 40 tunes for the benefit of young drunk dancers. At least for me . . . . .

Call me self-indulgent, but I'd rather play for myself, other musicians, and a small crowd that appreciates and applauds a good solo.

. . . and would I go out of my way to woodshed a couple of challenging tunes for this kind of format. Yes, I would.

[BlueStrat]

Roy... Nice to hear from someone that gets what a blues jam is about.

Sine blues jams are your only stage experience, I guess that's why you always swing the conversation around to the topic. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[New Trail]

 

....Call me self-indulgent, but I'd rather play for myself, other musicians, and a small crowd that appreciates and applauds a good solo......

 

 

Getting applause after a solo is awesome, I agree, but I'd rather play for a crowd of hot chicks dancing, but that's just me. But...maybe a crowd of hot chicks who want to dance would just LOVE long blues jams...:poke:

[SeniorBlues]

Getting applause after a solo is awesome, I agree, but I'd rather play for a crowd of hot chicks dancing, but that's just me. But...maybe a crowd of hot chicks who want to dance would just LOVE long blues jams...:poke:

 

 

If you can get gigs with musical content, chicks, and good pay, you've figured out something that many (most?) of us haven't.

 

I'm way too old for the party 'til dawn every night thing. If you don't have a 9-5 because this is the gig, you can do that - when you're young.

[Vito Corleone]

If you can get gigs with musical content, chicks, and good pay, you've figured out something that many (most?) of us haven't. .

 

 

Yeah, you really can't. The real truth is that people who want to drink and want to party (which is where the gigs with chicks and good pay are all about) don't care about musical content. The cruel joke on us musicians is that part of what those people want to party TO somewhat involves 'music', so we get led down the primrose path thinking that "if only I could give them the RIGHT song, I could please them AND myself, or maybe even teach them a thing or two about good musical content."

 

It's Fool's Gold. They don't want real music. They just want something like "It's Got A Good Beat And I Can Dance To It. I Give It A '65', Dick."

 

As an analogy--I was visiting my sister-in-law and her husband a while back and they are wine buffs. My sister-in-law was commenting how she's always trying to find a good wine that her mother will like so she can get her beyond the Behringer White Zinfandel she loves. I explained to her that: "Stop trying. Your mother doesn't like wine. She likes sweet drinks with some alcohol in them. That the stuff she likes bears some resemblence to wine and is called 'wine' is really just an anomoly." When she realized that was true, she stopped trying.

 

So as musicians, we all have to make our own decisions of how we want to navigate the reality. For me, I've decided that I want to do as many big party gigs with as many pretty ladies as possible for as much money as possible and I'll get my musical rocks off in the small nuggets I can pull out during those otherwise great gigs. I choose that route because, for me, I have a hard time getting my musical rocks off in a live situation WITHOUT a big, responsive crowd. So playing just for myself and hoping for those rare situations when the right crowd and response DOES materialize is a nightmare. I'd rather stay at home.

 

But that's just me. I cut my teeth playing in bands that played for big, responsive crowds and I just got addicted to that I think. I see anything less than that to be somewhat of a "fail".

[DevilRaysFan]

Yeah, you really can't. The real truth is that people who want to drink and want to party (which is where the gigs with chicks and good pay are all about) don't care about musical content. The cruel joke on us musicians is that part of what those people want to party TO somewhat involves 'music', so we get led down the primrose path thinking that "if only I could give them the RIGHT song, I could please them AND myself, or maybe even teach them a thing or two about good musical content." It's Fool's Gold. They don't want real music. They just want something like "It's Got A Good Beat And I Can Dance To It. I Give It A '65', Dick." As an analogy--I was visiting my sister-in-law and her husband a while back and they are wine buffs. My sister-in-law was commenting how she's always trying to find a good wine that her mother will like so she can get her beyond the Behringer White Zinfandel she loves. I explained to her that: "Stop trying. Your mother doesn't like wine. She likes sweet drinks with some alcohol in them. That the stuff she likes bears some resemblence to wine and is called 'wine' is really just an anomoly." When she realized that was true, she stopped trying. So as musicians, we all have to make our own decisions of how we want to navigate the reality. For me, I've decided that I want to do as many big party gigs with as many pretty ladies as possible for as much money as possible and I'll get my musical rocks off in the small nuggets I can pull out during those otherwise great gigs. I choose that route because, for me, I have a hard time getting my musical rocks off in a live situation WITHOUT a big, responsive crowd. So playing just for myself and hoping for those rare situations when the right crowd and response DOES materialize is a nightmare. I'd rather stay at home. But that's just me. I cut my teeth playing in bands that played for big, responsive crowds and I just got addicted to that I think. I see anything less than that to be somewhat of a "fail".

[GOLFCLAP] Excellent Post! [/GOLFCLAP]

[Tillford James]

Why the resentment toward part time guys that play out once in a while?...seems like the 'gigging pros' with band vans, gigs every weekend, 50 song set lists, a garage full of gear, wouldn't give much thought to a guy who walks in with a Strat and Marshall trying to fumble his way through Red House on a Tues night.

[Vito Corleone]

Why the resentment toward part time guys that play out once in a while?...seems like the 'gigging pros' with band vans, gigs every weekend, 50 song set lists, a garage full of gear, wouldn't give much thought to a guy who walks in with a Strat and Marshall trying to fumble his way through Red House on a Tues night.

[chevybusa]

This is a really interesting topic. I'm only 29 and not a huge fan of the blues OR very well versed in their history but here's my take, I apologize in advance if I offend anyone, that is really not my intent. I'm sure my comments will probably show some ignorance as well due to the aforementioned disclaimer.

I think one of the main reasons is the very rudimentary, "simple" nature of most blues...by definition much of it is LITERALLY 3 chords (145). This opens up a lot of space to fill, so to speak.

I think another major factor is the minor pentatonic scale (with the flatted fifth here and there) itself. It is pretty miuch the first scale every guitar player learns, and this leads it to being a cruch in a way that you can just noodle aropund with those 5 notes constantly (with the flatted fifth too) and it just has the "rock god" sound, and it just lends itself to shredding. I think it gives a lot of guitar players that sound/image that they really crave.

This all applies to just the standard 145 blues, however, I think there are much more complex bluesy stuff but most folks would say it's more jazz, stuff like this, and it can still lend itself to "wankery", although in this case I think it's much more "musically integral" to the song rather than just musically vomiting/masturbating all over those 3 chords.

[YOUTUBE]cMgTp8UCj2I[/YOUTUBE]

[Tillford James]

Chevy -That's pretty smart...the simplistic nature of the chord progression probably lends itself to alot of embellishment....solos, ect

[Roy Brooks]

Sine blues jams are your only stage experience, I guess that's why you always swing the conversation around to the topic. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Assuming we are right around the same age I am pretty sure I have at least as much paid gigging experience as you do.

The reason I mention blues jams is that they are a good place to experience the wanking that this thread is about. I have played in several working blues bands. And I know several working blues bands around here. And the ones that stay busy aren't wanking.

[Roy Brooks]

I'm not even talking about blues jams or jams, or even open mic night, or even karaoke. Those are totally different. I'm talking about old man blues bands that thrive on wankery rather than playing songs with parts.

 

 

There are several working bands around here comprised of older musicians. Most are not blues bands. And the few that do play the blues and are working are playing tunes with parts. They take solos. But I don't hear a whole lot of wanking going on in the working blues bands I encounter. I do however hear quite a bit of wanking at blues jams. Not to say that every single person who goes to a blues jam is going to wank. But many of them do.