Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 LOL. So it wasn't exactly shot with "no budget" then was it? For that much money you could hire a pro outfit to do all the work for you and have something that looks even BETTER! No, you couldn't. I shoot and edit pro video. An average shoot of this size (and this is small) will cost $10,000. That's gear rental, crew, insurance, location, food, camera, and editing. That's a low number for the quality we got out of this. Your'e not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you're so inclined, and have the gusto to do it, you can make a video for your band that looks better than the usual "here we are in our garage" BS, and do it with little to no money. Read what I said, again, and see the part where I say that I BORROWED the talents and time of all of these people. There are plenty of artists out there willing to work with other artists to make something great to get promotion out of it - I do it plenty of times for artists in the same situation. The people I worked with are some of the best around. Rip Williams, Steve Groves, Jason Andrews, Rielle Romdo and Brad Cole are extremely talented, and worked for NO BUDGET. Tell you what, though; go find a video production house in your hometown that'll do all this for $1200 for you, bring it back to me with -better- quality than what I did with borrowed time and gear, and I'll give you a coke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 DukeOfBoom: There should be no "wtf?" necessary. You know you're a bigot, right? Every chance you have to bash anyone that seems even remotely GLBT you take (with aplomb, I might add). I mean, you started a thread over in the singer's forum expressly for the purpose of making fun of transsexuals. You seem pretty okay with it, enough to seem to think that most people are like you, so why not just own the fact queers of all types bug you? Just sayin'... On topic: Love the video, botkiller. Think the singer could be more dynamic vocally, IMO, but enjoyed it anyway. Brian V. Thanks. I just ignore bigots, now; or I watch them burn out. Homophobic gutterpunks usually get stomped out; I've seen it happen plenty of times at shows here I've already added idiot box to my ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 No, you couldn't. I shoot and edit pro video. An average shoot of this size (and this is small) will cost $10,000. That's gear rental, crew, insurance, location, food, camera, and editing. That's a low number for the quality we got out of this. Your'e not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you're so inclined, and have the gusto to do it, you can make a video for your band that looks better than the usual "here we are in our garage" BS, and do it with little to no money. Read what I said, again, and see the part where I say that I BORROWED the talents and time of all of these people. There are plenty of artists out there willing to work with other artists to make something great to get promotion out of it - I do it plenty of times for artists in the same situation. The people I worked with are some of the best around. Rip Williams, Steve Groves, Jason Andrews, Rielle Romdo and Brad Cole are extremely talented, and worked for NO BUDGET. Tell you what, though; go find a video production house in your hometown that'll do all this for $1200 for you, bring it back to me with -better- quality than what I did with borrowed time and gear, and I'll give you a coke $1200? You used three 3 $2000 cameras, $700 in software (if you use Vegas Pro) and whatever-your-time-is-worth to edit it yourself and get competent with all the gear. Sure, if one has the right friends from which they can BORROW great gear, time, talent and experience, one can get ANYTHING done for free! You drop a bunch of names of talented people you happen to know who you got to do work for you for free and then talk about how all it takes is inclination and gusto? That's ridiculous. That's like me saying "ANYONE can get a great band to play at their party for free if they just have the inclination and gusto!" because I happen to be friends with Chris Cornell and because of such, Soundgarden played my wedding for free. (I don't and they didn't. Just made that up as an example.) Look, I think your video looks great. But the reason it looks great is because A) you shoot and edit pro video and B) you know a lot of other pros with pro gear who were willing to help you out by letting you "borrow" their gear, time and talent. That's awesome. But most people aren't in that same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 $1200? You used three 3 $2000 cameras, $700 in software (if you use Vegas Pro) and whatever-your-time-is-worth to edit it yourself and get competent with all the gear. Sure, if one has the right friends from which they can BORROW great gear, time, talent and experience, one can get ANYTHING done for free! You drop a bunch of names of talented people you happen to know who you got to do work for you for free and then talk about how all it takes is inclination and gusto? That's ridiculous. That's like me saying "ANYONE can get a great band to play at their party for free if they just have the inclination and gusto!" because I happen to be friends with Chris Cornell and because of such, Soundgarden played my wedding for free. (I don't and they didn't. Just made that up as an example.)Look, I think your video looks great. But the reason it looks great is because A) you shoot and edit pro video and B) you know a lot of other pros with pro gear who were willing to help you out by letting you "borrow" their gear, time and talent. That's awesome. But most people aren't in that same position. Yeah, David; because people with gusto and inclination get things done. Anyway, your mileage will vary. Thanks for watching - /b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yeah, David; because people with gusto and inclination get things done. Of course. But what does that have to do with the fact that you shoot and edit pro video for a living, have a bunch of very talented friends who do the same thing and therefore have access to great gear, and can take advantage of those connections to get a good quality video shot and editted for virtually nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 DukeOfBoom: There should be no "wtf?" necessary. You know you're a bigot, right? Every chance you have to bash anyone that seems even remotely GLBT you take (with aplomb, I might add). I mean, you started a thread over in the singer's forum expressly for the purpose of making fun of transsexuals. You seem pretty okay with it, enough to seem to think that most people are like you, so why not just own the fact queers of all types bug you? Just sayin'... On topic: Love the video, botkiller. Think the singer could be more dynamic vocally, IMO, but enjoyed it anyway. Brian V. whatever, you whacko. get your head out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Of course. But what does that have to do with the fact that you shoot and edit pro video for a living, have a bunch of very talented friends who do the same thing and therefore have access to great gear, and can take advantage of those connections to get a good quality video shot and editted for virtually nothing? It means that, if a band wanted this kind of video (and many have talked to me since I did this), and got in touch with me, and other people that I know, and explained that they don't have a budget, but really want to get something that'll get them to the next level, I'd work with them. I -have- worked with plenty of people in the same situation, providing my services for free, with the understanding that I get credit, use it for portfolio, etc. This means that the average person CAN find people with this kind of talent, and have the chance to work with them. I never said I was better than anyone; I'm very lucky to know the people that I do - but that doesn't mean that plenty of others can't do it. Perhaps I live in a part of the country with a large patch of talented people who like to work with others. That's probably true, but it's also true that there's plenty of people who have great tools, and want to create. And, frankly, you're better off trying that route first, before you spend the ten grand - and you will, easily - and you won't get final cut on what you paid for, either. I'm just saying, David; if you want it, push to get it. That's all. Feel free to decry me all you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 It means that, if a band wanted this kind of video (and many have talked to me since I did this), and got in touch with me, and other people that I know, and explained that they don't have a budget, but really want to get something that'll get them to the next level, I'd work with them. This means that the average person CAN find people with this kind of talent, and have the chance to work with them. I never said I was better than anyone; I'm very lucky to know the people that I do - but that doesn't mean that plenty of others can't do it. And, frankly, you're better off trying that route first, before you spend the ten grand - and you will, easily - and you won't get final cut on what you get, either. I'm just saying, David; if you want it, push to get it. That's all. Feel free to decry me all you'd like. Hey, I'm not decrying you. I think it's great you use every option available to you and help people out when you can. That's awesome. But I think it's also important to point out that the average person isn't going to get a video that looks that good with a borrowed DSLR and Windows Movie Maker. What YOU were able to do with "no budget" is not an option available to most people. But yeah, I agree that there's all sorts of ways to get things done if you work at it. I'm in the process of editting a promo video for my band as we speak. It's going to take a LOT to get it all done, and not be all THAT cheap when all is said and done, nor quite as pro as I would like it to be. And it's taking a MAJOR amount of time and effort on my part (I'm learning most of the video editting techniques as I go) and some others in the band as well. We used high-quality cameras (hired two guys with good gear but little/no "band" video experience to do it cheap) and I'm editting on Sony Vegas. By the time I get it all done I'll have about $500 (not counting the cost of the software) and dozens (if not hundreds) of hours into what will be a 5-6 minute comp video. You do what you can with what you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Hey, I'm not decrying you. I think it's great you use every option available to you and help people out when you can. That's awesome. But I think it's also important to point out that the average person isn't going to get a video that looks that good with a borrowed DSLR and Windows Movie Maker. What YOU were able to do with "no budget" is not an option available to most people. But yeah, I agree that there's all sorts of ways to get things done if you work at it.I'm in the process of editting a promo video for my band as we speak. It's going to take a LOT to get it all done, and not be all THAT cheap when all is said and done, nor quite as pro as I would like it to be. And it's taking a MAJOR amount of time and effort on my part (I'm learning most of the video editting techniques as I go) and some others in the band as well. We used high-quality cameras (hired two guys with good gear but little/no "band" video experience to do it cheap) and I'm editting on Sony Vegas. By the time I get it all done I'll have about $500 (not counting the cost of the software) and dozens (if not hundreds) of hours into what will be a 5-6 minute comp video. You do what you can with what you got. This is all true. No matter what, you make due with what you have; or what you can get, or beg for. That's what it's all about. Good luck on your project - if I were in your area I'd help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khem1cal Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 This technology just gets cheaper, the Mark III will be out sometime the end of this year and used M2's are going to be popping up everywhere. At this time, you could still use a T2i Rebel for $600-700 instead and have a decent vid. You don't even need multicams, multicams allow you to get through project faster(less takes), but it can be with one cam. If you can't make a pro quality music vid, in this day & age, idk what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 This technology just gets cheaper, the Mark III will be out sometime the end of this year and used M2's are going to be popping up everywhere. At this time, you could still use a T2i Rebel for $600-700 instead and have a decent vid. You don't even need multicams, multicams allow you to get through project faster(less takes), but it can be with one cam. If you can't make a pro quality music vid, in this day & age, idk what to tell you. the tools are there, you have to want to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khem1cal Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 yup, there's no excuses now, when it comes to this kind of thing. Labels become less relevant every year, and that makes me happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 yup, there's no excuses now, when it comes to this kind of thing. Labels become less relevant every year, and that makes me happy agreed. The ones that work hard for it are the ones that shall reap the rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khem1cal Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 agreed. The ones that work hard for it are the ones that shall reap the rewards That's how it works in business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 So, you'll just have to get over that, thanks Actually, I was over it before the video was, but it's nice to see you have so much confidence in yourself. As I usually say, feel free to do better than me, and then give me a shout Until then, thanks for watching. I wondered how long it would take you to make an honest criticism into a pissing match. So, criticism isn't valid unless I can do better? Sheesh. A little juvenile, isn't it? You held out longer than most, though, so I'll give you credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Actually, I was over it before the video was, but it's nice to see you have so much confidence in yourself. I wondered how long it would take you to make an honest criticism into a pissing match. So, criticism isn't valid unless I can do better? Sheesh. A little juvenile, isn't it? You held out longer than most, though, so I'll give you credit for that. Thanks for watching Pat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members botkiller Posted January 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 That's how it works in business Yeah, that or the one with the best drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khem1cal Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 What I'm getting out of this is that the OP believes that I should be able to find pro or semi-pro videographers in my area who would be willing to make me a promo video for next to nothing so they can add it to their portfolio. Personally, I'm not in the business of undercutting pros - as a musician, photographer, woodworker, soccer coach, and definitely not as a piano technician. Lots of threads on this topic . . . . . As far as DIY, it's easy to underestimate the aesthetics of this project. You might be able to borrow equipment, but learning how to use lights, select wardrobe, determine shooting angles, consider background, etc. takes a lot of practice and, frankly, some talent. Having said all that, I don't think most of us need something this good. I expect Dave's project, which contains mostly live footage from various venues, is all we need to help us get more gigs (assuming that is its primary purpose.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 whatever, you whacko. get your head out of your ass. I hoped you possessed the ability to transcend your past idiocy, but alas...Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 I watched the whole thing and although it isn't my cup of tea thought it looked very professional. My only bitch is your bass player has really terrible technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shredhead7 Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Watched. I thought that it looked very pro. I can see no difference between this and something else on MTV, etc...(obviously there are some extremely high budget things, but you get the idea). The band is good, reminds me of Kill Hannah or Placebo. In a "glam" band where image is at least 60%, I think that the singer, the girl and the drummer, have the look. Perfect. The bass player and the guitar player do not. I know that is superficial, but Duran Duran, U2, et al were all good looking. Just saying...If you are the guitarist or bass player, apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 What I'm getting out of this is that the OP believes that I should be able to find pro or semi-pro videographers in my area who would be willing to make me a promo video for next to nothing so they can add it to their portfolio. Personally, I'm not in the business of undercutting pros - as a musician, photographer, woodworker, soccer coach, and definitely not as a piano technician. Lots of threads on this topic . . . . .As far as DIY, it's easy to underestimate the aesthetics of this project. You might be able to borrow equipment, but learning how to use lights, select wardrobe, determine shooting angles, consider background, etc. takes a lot of practice and, frankly, some talent.Having said all that, I don't think most of us need something this good. I expect Dave's project, which contains mostly live footage from various venues, is all we need to help us get more gigs (assuming that is its primary purpose.) I think it comes down to what kind of friends you have.... young people who are still around the college scene can and do have access to people who can shoot this quality of video. Like anything ,, its all about how well you network and how good you are at pullin in your chits when you need a favor. I think that was the whole theme of the OP's post...You can pull off great things without getting off the long dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 Since people seem to have an issue with the "performance video" concept which... seems to have been successful since the dawn of music videos.. How about this:You have a guy who goes to a diner and is just like hanging out there. Well, this guy reads a comic book, right? So, your singer's hand comes out of the comic and draws this guy in all of a sudden, your singer looks like he is "drawn" rather than real? Get it so far? Ok, so they have this chase scene where these guys are chasing your singer and the dude around and at the last second the dude escapes but your singer is stuck in the comic! I just thought of that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted January 12, 2011 Members Share Posted January 12, 2011 For me personally I can do something like this for very little money because I have the access to the equipment and the know how to get it done, its because I work in the TV industry and have for many years. I would do this for my band for nothing using the equipment I use when I do freelance event videography... and borrow what ever else I need from the TV station. But not everyone has that luxury. For some people the magic of video and TV is just that... magic. They don't understand it and don't know where to start. A matter of fact a musician sent me a Facebook message asking me about the video I shot last night of snow in my backyard set to music. It was a very easy thing done a little out of boredom and finished in about an hour. Even though I say it was easy, he was clueless about how I went about doing it. As far as your video goes, I think it looks amazing and when I heard about the cameras being used it made me smile. I try to keep myself on top of what's new and what people are doing as much as possible and I have heard very good things about these cameras. I do feel that if you have the drive and a little bit of the talent you can do it. It just takes getting access to the equipment. The nice thing is this tech is now more accessable than ever. This IMO scares some people in the industry because the are losing control. They can no longer take their toys and go home if you don't play nice... I see this attitude alot from people 45-50 yrs old and up in the industry. (BTW this can fly way OT so I will stop but it is very true. Much of the old guard likes the way it is, not the way it is becoming.) I do have some stuff shot for a video of one of our original tunes but since we are mainly a cover band I haven't finished the project. This video of yours did get me thinking about revisiting it. I have produced videos for 2 of our original tunes before but this one would have a more polished look. Much more like yours than the other two produced. Now, If a band I didn't know came to me as a freelance videographer and wanted a video that looked like what you have. I would ask at least $1000-$1500 maybe more. If they came to the TV production company I work for they would quote more like $5000-$6000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.