Local Bands whose leader / front person is the weakest member musically? True or....

[New Trail]

....false?

 

It seems fairly common around here that successful bands often revolve around a leader whose musical talents, as perceived particularly by other local musicians, not the public so much, are less than his members. It seems that these bands feature a front person who is charismatic and outgoing but maybe not the hottest player, or even singer. I mean, it's certainly not always the case, but I seem to see it quite a bit. Is that true in general, or maybe a local thing?

[BATCAT]

That isn't really a trend I've noticed around here.

 

However I do think it's true, at least for some types of music, that vocal talent alone doesn't make for a good frontperson. A decent singer with who "owns" the stage will generally come off better than an excellent singer who doesn't seem like they belong there.

[Vito Corleone]

There may be some truth to the idea that a guy with great frontman skills doesn't ever feel the need to become a great player/singer because his other skills carry him forward. But if the end result is a great frontman....

 

...has anyone besides other musicians ever cared that Mick Jagger can't sing his way out of a paper bag?

[mstreck]

I'm the band leader and I rank myself as 5th out of 5 band members in terms of musical talent/ability.

 

I wouldn't want it any other way.

[wheresgrant3]

Not necessarily true... although as we've said many times on this forum, a band is the equal of the sum of it's parts. A great band with a great front man (not necessarily the best singer) is a combination for any popular band.

[Outkaster]

Mick Jagger can sing.

[wardjames]

I think being the weakest member musically is relative. A good front person has to have good stage presense AND a good voice. That probablly weeds out 90% of musicians right there.

 

It does, however, help to have a front person who's also a good musician. I'm a good lead guitar player, and understand music theory, and it certainly helps in directing the band onstage, and gives me an advantage over other front people.

 

With respect to front people who can't sing. There's some people who;s personality and gift for the gab are so great that it overrides everything else. Jimmy Buffett would be a great example. But that kind of person is SO rare that I wouldn't go so far as to say that stage presence trumps singing ability. 99.9% of the time, you need both to be a good front person.

[troyguitar]

Being the band leader is a lot of work that does not really involve musical talent, it's a matter of which member is un-lazy enough to get stuff done.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Being the band leader is a lot of work that does not really involve musical talent, it's a matter of which member is un-lazy enough to get stuff done.

 

 

Some skill and talent in this dept helps as well. If your band leader has good business sense, understands marketing and has some decent people skills, you'll be ok. Otherwise, you might want to consider hiring a manager.

 

It isn't a coincidence that very often the leaders of the most successful bands in any city go on to become booking agents or running mini-musical empires. Often while still playing in this same band. It's more about the fact that this guy possess those management skills that made his band so 'hot' rather than his band was so 'hot' that he was able to parlay that into a management career.

[MartinC]

I'm probably the weakest musician in my group, but by far the strongest business person. I also play the musical part that is most essential to create the sound of the group, although it's IMO the most boring to play. The freakin sacrifices I make .........:lol:

My agent has in fact tried to hire me, but he can't afford it. Too bad, I could cherry pick all the gigs.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I think being the weakest member musically is relative. A good front person has to have good stage presense AND a good voice. That probablly weeds out 90% of musicians right there. It does, however, help to have a front person who's also a good musician. I'm a good lead guitar player, and understand music theory, and it certainly helps in directing the band onstage, and gives me an advantage over other front people. With respect to front people who can't sing. There's some people who;s personality and gift for the gab are so great that it overrides everything else. Jimmy Buffett would be a great example. But that kind of person is SO rare that I wouldn't go so far as to say that stage presence trumps singing ability. 99.9% of the time, you need both to be a good front person.

 

 

 

 

The biggest driving force in buffets success isnt buffet ,, its the fans. Buffets shows are about being part of the crowd. The greatful dead tapped into that crowd energy too. Jimmy isnt a gifted singer..many of his songs he didnt write. Buffet sells a lifestyle that most can only achieve for a few hours on a weekend at a concert. His concerts are an escape from the house , the kids , the dog and the office cubical.

[Vito Corleone]

 

The biggest driving force in buffets success isnt buffet ,, its the fans. Buffets shows are about being part of the crowd. The greatful dead tapped into that crowd energy too. Jimmy isnt a gifted singer..many of his songs he didnt write. Buffet sells a lifestyle that most can only achieve for a few hours on a weekend at a concert. His concerts are an escape from the house , the kids , the dog and the office cubical.

 

 

Yeah, but somebody created all that Parrothead bull{censored}, didn't they? Did it all just grow organically as time went on? Or did Buffett cultivate it and exploit it and market the hell out of it?

[TIMKEYS]

 

Yeah, but somebody created all that Parrothead bull{censored}, didn't they? Did it all just grow organically as time went on? Or did Buffett cultivate it and exploit it and market the hell out of it?

 

 

From my understanding the fans created that parrot head thing. Its almost like the tailgate party dwarfing the football game. For sure jimmy picked up the ball and ran with it but i question if he invented the game. Jimmy was kinda wandering through life ,with one major hit song to his name, and the fans picked him as the pied piper. A genre formed around him.. and the rest is history. Every hunk of sand has their local guy who is the pied piper of tropical rock. They cant have jimmy so they latch on to someone and make them high priest of the, surf, salt and sand and adult beverage. Trop rock is a pretty interesting genre. But the most interesting part of it are the crowds you play for.

 

They are the show.

[Vito Corleone]

 

From my understanding the fans created that parrot head thing. Its almost like the tailgate party dwarfing the football game. For sure jimmy picked up the ball and ran with it but i question if he invented the game.

 

 

I don't think he invented it. But he's certainly milked it for every possible dollar. To the degree that it might have died a quick death otherwise.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I don't think he invented it. But he's certainly milked it for every possible dollar. To the degree that it might have died a quick death otherwise.

 

 

Hard to tell. I think why it still is alive today is that jimmy was smart enough to always know that the fans are the show. His fans have been very good to him. I think he understands that. He is all business... but when get gets on stage ,, the fans are the driving force and he knows thats where the magic is.

 

I am not a great jimmy buffet fan,, but I know that I am going to hit patch 219 every night and play steel drums on margarittaville.

[gonzobassman]

David Lee Roth. Not a great singer,but an excellent frontman. Sammy Hagar great singer decent on guitar,good frontman,but a Van Halen concert pre-Sammy was what those boys were all about IMHO. Two complete different bands,and you really can't compare them. It does make a difference. People will always think someone they like is better than someone that seems "standoffish".

[JailTime]

Nice speculation on Buffett, but off. The guy wrote all the songs that put him on the map - not as much in recent years, but all he needed to get started was Margaritaville. He milked that into Cheeseburgers, Now the Parrot heads have overshadowed the music and are the most obnoxious fans on the planet. But Jimmy Buffett, before he became a Parrot leader was an excellent song writer, a credible rhythm guitarist, a decent enough singer for his songs - and - one hell of a front man.

[Austincowbell]

Eh... It's true in my original band as well as the band in which I play drums but I think you are misusing the term "musical talent". Tom Petty is a weaker guitarist than anyone in his band and probably the 3rd best singer. BUT.... he writes the songs and for every 100 badass guitarists you are lucky to find 1 decent songwriter.

[vanlatte]

Probably true since I see very few lead singers ever lift anything.

[Lee Knight]

Band Leader or Front Person? And in the case of the Band Leader, business or musical? So, let me forget about the Band Leader part and concentrate on the Front Person.

 

So often, a front person is a liaison between the core musicians and the audience. How important is that? I've never... ever... worked in a band without a good front person. Worked. I've been in bands without a good front person. But they didn't work.

 

So, weakest member musically? Sure. The butt of jokes at rehearsal. Of course. But we always knew who was buttering our toast. That front person. Can we then say the strongest musician is the weakest showman? Sometimes.

 

You know... I've seen so many great bands implode because they failed to see the worth of the various individuals on the team. The ones that tore if up were the ones who had people with different skill sets and respected each others abilities. Music/show/writing.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Nice speculation on Buffett, but off. The guy wrote all the songs that put him on the map - not as much in recent years, but all he needed to get started was Margaritaville. He milked that into Cheeseburgers, Now the Parrot heads have overshadowed the music and are the most obnoxious fans on the planet. But Jimmy Buffett, before he became a Parrot leader was an excellent song writer, a credible rhythm guitarist, a decent enough singer for his songs - and - one hell of a front man.

 

 

You might want to talk to Keith Sykes about that. He wrote some songs for jimmy. Jimmy is a great songwriter ,, but he also had some help along the way too.

[WynnD]

That isn't really a trend I've noticed around here. However I do think it's true, at least for some types of music, that vocal talent alone doesn't make for a good frontperson. A decent singer with who "owns" the stage will generally come off better than an excellent singer who doesn't seem like they belong there.

 

Boy, do I agree with that!!!

[callous]

I'm reminded of the J Geils Band.

[Vito Corleone]

 

You might want to talk to Keith Sykes about that. He wrote some songs for jimmy. Jimmy is a great songwriter ,, but he also had some help along the way too.

 

 

Pretty much all the "on the map" Buffett are on this album it seems. And Buffett has the sole songwriting credit on all but a couple of tunes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_You_Know_by_Heart

[JailTime]

 

You might want to talk to Keith Sykes about that. He wrote some songs for jimmy. Jimmy is a great songwriter ,, but he also had some help along the way too.

 

 

All I could find was a co-credit with Buffett on Volcano and credits to him for The Coast Marseilles and The Last Line off Son of a Sailor. Not exactly the Why Dont we Get Drunk, Cheeseburger, Come Monday, Son of a Sailor, Margaritaville, Pencil thin Mustache, Pirate Looks at Forty, Coconut Telegraph, One Particular Harbor, etc, etc that put him on the MAP. And yes - he had help on the way from Jerry Jeff Walker, Steve Goodman, and plenty others.