Slightly O/T - Forbidden material

[jeff42]

 

 

although this video was made (and posted) as a joke many folk metal bands (yes its a real thing) use accordion in their music.

 

IMO it is pretty awesome.

 

 

[Lee Knight]

Well that's awesome, because this isn't a debate. It's you commenting on something that you didn't experience, calling it one way, and me, who lived through it, calling it another.

 

 

Oh boy...

[Yer Blues]

That... I don't doubt. That is Clink's side of the story however.

 

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

There are tons of clips of early GNR pre-Appetite and there's no dive bombing or finger tapping. I remember reading an article with Clink about AFD where he said everyone wants to know how he got the band to sound like that and he said something like it's just the way they sounded, I didn't do anything magical.

 

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, I would genuinely like to read it.

[J.Paul]

I was a teen of the 80's - Iron Maiden, Metallica, WASP.. you name it, if it was metal and not too freekin ghey, I LOVED it. Now, to my generation, DISCO was dead, an embarassement to the music community, far too sucky to even play as a joke. Of course in the mid-late 90's it finally became ok to start mashing up "one way or another" and "funky town" and stuff into medleys... So I finally just realized today that a lot of the "hair metal", not so much metallica, but Maiden, Savatage, Helloween, Whitesnake, WASP, TS, etc ..any "schtick" metal band to the teens of the 90's is like disco was to us. Even today, I can't get my other guitarist to even acknowledge some of the amazing solo work of the hair metal guitarists from my generation. It's sad because some of the best guitar work in history was done in the 80's IMO. But even today, it's like musical kryptonite ..

 

 

Youngsters might wanna learn to pretend to like the old school if they wanna get with the MILFS when they're between college hotties.

......just an observation

[Yer Blues]

.......... And the kids coming up who liked grunge didn't see any real distinction between bands like GnR and Ratt anyway. It was STILL all way-too-glam for them.

 

 

I don't know about all this bridge BS, but you're definitely wrong there. I was actually there and kids most definitely saw a distinction between bands like GNR and bands like Ratt.

[Yer Blues]

I don't know much, but I do know "Smells Like Teen Spirit" does indeed have a guitar solo in it.

[sventvkg]

I was a teen of the 80's - Iron Maiden, Metallica, WASP.. you name it, if it was metal and not too freekin ghey, I LOVED it. Now, to my generation, DISCO was dead, an embarassement to the music community, far too sucky to even play as a joke. Of course in the mid-late 90's it finally became ok to start mashing up "one way or another" and "funky town" and stuff into medleys... So I finally just realized today that a lot of the "hair metal", not so much metallica, but Maiden, Savatage, Helloween, Whitesnake, WASP, TS, etc ..any "schtick" metal band to the teens of the 90's is like disco was to us. Even today, I can't get my other guitarist to even acknowledge some of the amazing solo work of the hair metal guitarists from my generation. It's sad because some of the best guitar work in history was done in the 80's IMO. But even today, it's like musical kryptonite ..

 

 

Well sir you are in the minority in thinking that {censored} ass hair metal is even remotely good. In point of fact, it's easy to see how cheesy and really bad it is in hindsight. The songs are mostly so bad as to be an embarrassment with some exceptions. That said, I listened to some of the hair music, coming up in the 80's developing my guitar chops because well, that's the music that had them!! I admit, I really wasn't listening to the EXTREMELY bad lyrics and cheeeezzz song, only the guitar parts. However, I can easily see how truly bad that music is today.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I don't know about all this bridge BS, but you're definitely wrong there. I was actually there and kids most definitely saw a distinction between bands like GNR and bands like Ratt.

 

 

Well, I guess that probably depends on what you mean by "saw a distinction". That probably wasn't the best word to use. I'm sure most saw a difference between the two bands. What I meant was that most didn't really care about a difference because they didn't care much for either band.

[Yer Blues]

Well, I guess that probably depends on what you mean by "saw a distinction". That probably wasn't the best word to use. I'm sure most saw a difference between the two bands. What I meant was that most didn't really care about a difference because they didn't care much for either band.

 

 

Guns N' Roses were still very popular when Nevermind hit. I don't think most kids in the early 90s even knew who Ratt was. People do dislike GNR, but people also dislike the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Public Enemy, and Bruno Mars. I think you will find more 90s kids comparing GNR to bands like AC/DC or Aerosmith than bands like Ratt or Poison.

[Lee Knight]

Well sir you are in the minority in thinking that {censored} ass hair metal is even remotely good. In point of fact, it's easy to see how cheesy and really bad it is in hindsight. The songs are mostly so bad as to be an embarrassment with some exceptions. That said, I listened to some of the hair music, coming up in the 80's developing my guitar chops because well, that's the music that had them!! I admit, I really wasn't listening to the EXTREMELY bad lyrics and cheeeezzz song, only the guitar parts. However, I can easily see how truly bad that music is today.

 

 

Hey there... I totally agree, but I don't. I don't like hair metal and agree it isn't any great shakes with regard to songwriting or even the majority of its riffs etc compared to earlier versions of the same stuff (classic hard rock). But... to each his own. Sometimes those intangibles are what drove us at an earlier age.

 

I totally get young guys getting off on that music back in the day. I was skinny ties, punk and wave, but the spandex crew were working right beside me. Doing lines, teasing their hair and adjusting their privates to show as much bulge as possible through the Lycra. I get it. To each his own. It's all fun.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Guns N' Roses were still very popular when Nevermind hit. I don't think most kids in the early 90s even knew who Ratt was. People do dislike GNR, but people also dislike the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Public Enemy, and Bruno Mars. I think you will find more 90s kids comparing GNR to bands like AC/DC or Aerosmith than bands like Ratt or Poison.

 

 

I'm sure many do. I also knew many at the time who put GnR in the same boat with all the other LA "hair" bands. GnR was just another Hollywood, sellout band that the girls liked in their view. The kids who liked Nirvana were the ones who previously were listening to Mudhoney, Bad Brains, Sonic Youth and bands like that. Not bluesy-rock bands. There's no one single story, viewpoint or timeline regarding all this stuff. People saw and experienced things for different reasons and with different perspectives. Both then and now.

[sventvkg]

Hey there... I totally agree, but I don't. I don't like hair metal and agree it isn't any great shakes with regard to songwriting or even the majority of its riffs etc compared to earlier versions of the same stuff (classic hard rock). But... to each his own. Sometimes those intangibles are what drove us at an earlier age. I totally get young guys getting off on that music back in the day. I was skinny ties, punk and wave, but the spandex crew were working right beside me. Doing lines, teasing their hair and adjusting their privates to show as much bulge as possible through the Lycra. I get it. To each his own. It's all fun.

 

 

Oh yea man, I get the scene and was totally down with it! It's the music was so bad!! LOLOL

[wheresgrant3]

 

Guns N' Roses were still very popular when Nevermind hit. I don't think most kids in the early 90s even knew who Ratt was. People do dislike GNR, but people also dislike the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Public Enemy, and Bruno Mars. I think you will find more 90s kids comparing GNR to bands like AC/DC or Aerosmith than bands like Ratt or Poison.

 

 

I agree... in fact GnR was one of the few bands in the early 90's that was able to sustain themselves, and in fact thrive. If they hadn't broke up in 94 or 95 who knows what would have happened to them. But GnR was more of a rock band... again I consider them on the level of bands like Aerosmith, The Stones, U2. {censored} it's almost 20 years after the classic lineup broke up and they are still selling out small arenas. If they reunited Slash, Axel, Duff and Gilby (Steven's too methed out for a comeback) it would be the comeback story for the ages.

 

Ratt, Warrant, Poison, even Skid Row... they were all a product of that era... and not commercially viable beyond it.

[wheresgrant3]

 

I'm sure many do. I also knew many at the time who put GnR in the same boat with all the other LA "hair" bands. GnR was just another Hollywood, sellout band that the girls liked in their view. The kids who liked Nirvana were the ones who previously were listening to Mudhoney, Bad Brains, Sonic Youth and bands like that. Not bluesy-rock bands. There's no one single story, viewpoint or timeline regarding all this stuff. People saw and experienced things for different reasons and with different perspectives. Both then and now.

 

 

Dave... I gotta disagree... GNR stopped being a Hollywood band a year or two after Appetite For Destruction hit 15million in sales. By the time Use Your Illusion I came out they were plugged in for world domination.

 

Nirvana has a pretty small catalog. Just three complete albums Bleach, Nevermind and In Ureto. Two of them launched them to 50 million in sales. GnR didn't have much more... Appetite, Lies, Illusion I & II... and they topped over 100 million in sales in 20 years. It's hard to cubby GnR to the LA rock scene they were a part of when there are kids in Thailand downloading 'Welcome to The Jungle' to their iPods at this moment. The same with Nirvana, arguable the best know grunge band of all time, yet their fame transcends Seattle. How many people know the song 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'... ask the same people if they remember Jeremy' from Pearl Jam. Probably a half or third of the hands go up.

 

GnR's association with Ratt and Warrant ended when they started headlining arenas.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Dave... I gotta disagree... GNR stopped being a Hollywood band a year or two after Appetite For Destruction hit 15million in sales. By the time Use Your Illusion I came out they were plugged in for world domination.

 

 

I'm talking about when they first hit the scene. The kids plugged into the alternative scene and were hip to "Bleach" had little/no use for GnR and put them in pretty much the same catagory as the other LA bands. At least the ones in this part of the country did. There MIGHT have been one or two who thought GnR was cooler or somewhat more acceptable than the other LA bands but I can't really remember any. Of course, this was all many years ago now.

 

 

GnR's association with Ratt and Warrant ended when they started headlining arenas.

 

 

At which point the grunge fans had even LESS use for them.

[wheresgrant3]

I was 17, 18 when Appetite came out. I was an avid Headbangers Ball fan. I was eating up guitar magazines full of tabulature. I remember thinking about who's pinched harmonic attack I liked better, George Lynch or Warrant De Martini. I had "Marching Out" and "Rising Force" on sides A& B of a 90 minute Memorex. De Leppard's Hysteria was all over the radio and John Sykes from Whitesnake was blowing my mind with monster riffs (coping Page) with the self titled album. Master of Puppets was permanently in my walkman. I remember worshiping Gary Moore, discovering Alan Holdsworth and Al DiMeola and thinking that Page was the sloppiest, overrated player I heard. And there was this new cat "Tony MacAlpine" who was black and could play piano and guitar!!! It wasn't about the music for me it was all about the guitar.

 

I still remember the first time I saw the 'Welcome To The Jungle' video on MTV and my first though was... ehhh it's cool, but the guitar player is sloppy. This will be here and gone in 15 minutes... a year later I couldn't escape it. They were different. They weren't pretty, they didn't give a f**k. They were almost an American Sex Pistols. I wasn't a fan at all but one thing was sure, all my non musician friends who looked at me cross eye for listening to Steve Vai instrumentals LOVED Guns. It was as if I was outside the circle. Girls, guys, everyone. And there was no sophomore slump. And then they proved they could write music. Not have some canned songwriter, hired by the label to write pop songs. They were toxic and they were pure. I saw them set far apart from the LA bands. They hung with the Stones... they opened for Aerosmith. They made Motley Crue look like a bunch of circus midgets. They sorta spit on the LA scene. Even though my outward opinion was they were hacks... inwardly I was like, wow these guys are taking over the world. At least that's how I saw them at the time. Of course that ended for the rest of rock when Nirvana came out. But even GnR seemed to survive... until they imploded.

[TrickyBoy]

Interestingly enough, who's the one pop "hair metal" band that was able to persevere and continue to release hit songs before, during and after the grunge era??? Bon Jovi. Who' have thunk back in 1988 that Bon Jovi would be the one to be the longest lasting band from that era?

[wheresgrant3]

Interestingly enough, who's the one pop "hair metal" band that was able to persevere and continue to release hit songs before, during and after the grunge era??? Bon Jovi. Who' have thunk back in 1988 that Bon Jovi would be the one to be the longest lasting band from that era?

Small correction... 'during' was not really a period for BJV. From 1994-2000 They couldn't gain the massive sales of the 80's. By 1996 they were relegated to AOR radio. Their big comeback was 'Crush' after a 5 year hiatus. The interesting thing was that 'Crush' was independently produced, financed and distributed by Bon Jovi on Island records. I watched an interview with him on 20/20 and he said he saw more money off 'Crush' owning the content and distribution (label only took a share) than he did from 'Slippery When Wet'. 'Crush' at the time was 2x Platinum, and 'Slippery' had sold over 16x plat status. Still Bon Jovi is certainly an american success story... and Bon Jovi is much more a rock band than anything. I certainly never thought they would go this far or this long.

[tim_7string]

 

I agree... in fact GnR was one of the few bands in the early 90's that was able to sustain themselves, and in fact thrive. If they hadn't broke up in 94 or 95 who knows what would have happened to them. But GnR was more of a rock band... again I consider them on the level of bands like Aerosmith, The Stones, U2. {censored} it's almost 20 years after the classic lineup broke up and they are still selling out small arenas. If they reunited Slash, Axel, Duff and Gilby (Steven's too methed out for a comeback) it would be the comeback story for the ages. Ratt, Warrant, Poison, even Skid Row... they were all a product of that era... and not commercially viable beyond it.

 

 

Absolutely. Those bands all have to be clumped together in twos, threes and fours just to entice people who miss the Aqua Net days. GN'R (even though I don't really consider the current band the actual GN'R) can headline stadiums just fine.

 

Thinking that GN'R and Ratt are of the same ilk is crazy to me. On the surface, sure, they looked similar. But GN'R were the only band of those supposed "hair" bands that I could actually give a {censored} about. They had that magic something (with the help of Mike Clink) that broke them big, just like Nirvana had as well (with the help of Butch Vig).

[tim_7string]

I was 17, 18 when Appetite came out.

 

Me too!

 

I still remember the first time I saw the 'Welcome To The Jungle' video on MTV and my first though was... ehhh it's cool, but the guitar player is sloppy. This will be here and gone in 15 minutes... a year later I couldn't escape it. They were different. They weren't pretty, they didn't give a f**k. They were almost an American Sex Pistols.

 

My reaction to the video was instantaneous. It was more along the lines of "Who the hell are these guys? I love this!" And this was while I was heavily listening to alternative music. I didn't have much use for a lot of the bands with the big hair and tight spandex clothes. Guns really stuck out for me and they were the only band I could actually like along with my metalhead classmates. I got way into Appetite For Destruction well before "Sweet Child O' Mine" came out as a single. In fact, I already had to replace the cassette once before that song even came out!

 

The next shocking thing was that my mother loved Appetite too (and she's kind of like Dana Carvey's Church Lady, lol). I was surprised, especially because of all the violence and sexual innuendo and swearing, but she looked past that crap and related to the melodies of songs like "Paradise City" and "Sweet Child O' Mine."

 

I wasn't a fan at all but one thing was sure, all my non musician friends who looked at me cross eye for listening to Steve Vai instrumentals LOVED Guns. It was as if I was outside the circle. Girls, guys, everyone. And there was no sophomore slump. And then they proved they could write music. Not have some canned songwriter, hired by the label to write pop songs. They were toxic and they were pure. I saw them set far apart from the LA bands. They hung with the Stones... they opened for Aerosmith. They made Motley Crue look like a bunch of circus midgets. They sorta spit on the LA scene. Even though my outward opinion was they were hacks... inwardly I was like, wow these guys are taking over the world. At least that's how I saw them at the time. Of course that ended for the rest of rock when Nirvana came out. But even GnR seemed to survive... until they imploded.

 

I can truly say that Guns N' Roses is the one band I ever became overly obsessed about. I love The Beatles, Nirvana, a lot of synth pop from the 80s, The Cars, but that band and that album hit me harder than any before or since. Perfect timing for me, I guess.

[BATCAT]

You guys really owe it to yourselves to check out the Whatever happened to Alternative Nation series I mentioned earlier. It takes the 90's year by year and tackles a couple albums at a time, kind of putting you in the authors perspective at the time they came out. They're insightful, funny, and just generally great reads.

 

There's a whole one about Nevermind and Use Your Illusion, with some interesting Nirvana vs GnR thought and some perspective on their rivalry. An excerpt...

 

1991 might be remembered as the year of Nevermind, but no band was bigger at the time than GN-effin-R, and no rock star had more power than Axl Rose, a man that made wearing a bandana and spandex biker shorts in public credible by sheer force of personality. Guns N

[Vito Corleone]

 

You guys really owe it to yourselves to check out the Whatever happened to Alternative Nation series I mentioned earlier. It takes the 90's year by year and tackles a couple albums at a time, kind of putting you in the authors perspective at the time they came out. They're insightful, funny, and just generally great reads.

 

 

Just starting them now. Good stuff.

[Yer Blues]

You guys really owe it to yourselves to check out the Whatever happened to Alternative Nation series I mentioned earlier. It takes the 90's year by year and tackles a couple albums at a time, kind of putting you in the authors perspective at the time they came out. They're insightful, funny, and just generally great reads.

 

 

For once I was actually there. I don't need to see the author's perspective. I was there.

[jeff42]

still a good collection of articles. I read some and when I get back to work after the new year i am sure I will read the rest.

[fingerpicker]

Im going to throw in some TESLA right now, bitches!