Members BlueStrat Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by Mike McLaughlin HaHa! and the backing track debate rages on! And my theory is being proved out. Those who poo-poo backing tracks do so because they can't keep a steady tempo! Yeah, that's it. I think they sound cheesy (for the most part) only because I can't keep time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike McLaughlin Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by fingerpicker Why do you think 99% of recording is done to a click track. I've seen good musicians who can't play to a click track. Your statement is dumb, sorry. I used tracks before, went to college for music, and can definately keep a steady tempo. Relax, it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I can play without tracks, went to college for music and can definitely keep a steady tempo too. Its alot harder to loop a consistant rhythm track before even starting the song then pressing play on your iPod. You win. I have a looping pedal and timing is crucial, it is so much easier to press play. And again: Use tracks if you want or don't. It's your show!! Or you can do both Originally Posted by richardmac I'm pretty sure he was kidding. I hope he was kidding... Yep, please don't expect much of what I say on an internet forum to be serious Originally Posted by BlueStrat Yeah, that's it. I think they sound cheesy (for the most part) only because I can't keep time. who cut the cheese? Cheese is a matter of opinion. This debate just cracks me up. You can be bad with or without tracks or can be very entertaining with or without tracks. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keithos28 Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Wow! Someone touched a nerve with this thread! If you were painting on the canvas, would you add a variety of colors to enhance the painting? If every painter was to paint the same way, would it be boring as hell or would it be really exciting? What distinguishes each painter? style ? Creativity? Theme? Colors?Are we cheating then as musicians if we use technology for the colors? Does that mean that if we leave behind the guitar only and the microphone and add a vocal harmonizer or a rhythm track, we are short in talent because it appears as if our strumming technique and vocal technique has much to be desired? Or are we enhancing the canvas with additional colors and attempting to sound different than the other musicians?I love this thread ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 You can be bad with or without tracks or can be very entertaining with or without tracks. YMMV Oh, I agree totally. But that's not what you said. THIS is what you said: "And my theory is being proved out. Those who poo-poo backing tracks do so because they can't keep a steady tempo"! Which deserves two, not one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 ok, i cant resist the chance to weigh in on this one too...i, for one, really enjoy a good oatmeal stout... or a boddington's ale for a change of pace when i want something lighter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by fancyfootwork Not to carrying on the debate, but I have to jump in here. If you make a killer meal, it doesn't matter what the ingredients are. For the record, I use live looping. It isn't boring, I use multiple layer threading and really make an art out of the looping itself. I make a killer meatloaf. hey there... like your post would love to check out your stuff if youve any links online??? im always enthralled when i see a looper used cleverly. i think it way surpasses backing tracks in terms of difficulty to use. but not in terms of flexibility... its so much harder to have choruses and bridges etc. its why i dont use one,. i use backing tracks. am thinking of getting a looper for some tracks though.. would love to check your stuff though. cheers d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Those who use BT dont complain about those who dont. Cant say the same about the other way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Those who use BT dont complain about those who dont. Cant say the same about the other way though. hi yes. aint that the truth... but the bottom line is that backing tracks get people up dancing much more easily than just acoustic. i can get a pretty good rhythm going with just guitar, but even then its much harder to get a group up on the dancefloor and keep them there with just that sound. and ive yet to see any other solo guitar player who can do that consistently too.... so thats why IMO we use backing tracks. and if youre gig doesnt require anyone to dance then by all means dont use the BTs... so thats kind of end of story there really isnt it... should we move on now.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yes...move on we shall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Those who use BT dont complain about those who dont. Cant say the same about the other way though. I think you have a persecution complex. I read back through this thread and I don't see anyone complaining about people using backing tracks. I saw quite a few BT people posts criticizing "campfire guitar players", which was a bit condescending, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by cephus I think you have a persecution complex. I read back through this thread and I don't see anyone complaining about people using backing tracks. I saw quite a few BT people posts criticizing "campfire guitar players", which was a bit condescending, don't you think? Read again properly. there ARE people who complain about people using BT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hey there stunningbabe, which do YOU use when (and if) you gig? You seem to take more of an interest in keeping this NON-controversy going, than anyone else. Especially for a non-performer (or maybe even non-musician?). BTW you're welcome to prove me wrong on that last one, and I hope you do. Although one time, you DID say "you can't go wrong with a Peavey". That's something like what a gigging musician would say. I'm just curious- pics of holding an instrument don't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Those who use BT dont complain about those who dont. Cant say the same about the other way though. Really? Guess you missed this. Even though you said it. It goes both ways. I dont like listening a guitarist playing without any backing track for the entire show. That's way too boring and plain to me. But hey...if you can stand it, no one will stop you. A little condescending, don't ya think? Or this: Originally Posted by Mike McLaughlin HaHa! and the backing track debate rages on! And my theory is being proved out. Those who poo-poo backing tracks do so because they can't keep a steady tempo! Even though this last statement was apparently supposed to be a joke, it wasn't explained as such until later. Whatever. People should do what they want. But the guy I saw last week running a looper and tracks through his Fender Acoustisonic amp he was also using as a PA just sounded like a cheap boombox CD player. He sounded much better just playing without anything, but wtf do I know? I myself was going to use a looper last night, a Digitech multi-function one my friend loaned me. It sounded like pure cheddar tonewise and I unplugged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 To each his own. In short...If You like BT...go for it. If you hate BT...dont go for it.NoObody can stop you...except yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I don't use backing tracks and that is my style. I have no problem with people who use them as it is their thing. But, if my wife and I go out and there is an act using them we usually don't hang around long. Once again, that is just us. My wife calls the use of backing tracks karaoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Blanchard Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let me just say that I am a campfire guitar player who doesn't mind if other people use backing tracks. My guess is we just have different aims and are playing for a different audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fancyfootwork Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by doezer hey there... like your post would love to check out your stuff if youve any links online??? im always enthralled when i see a looper used cleverly. i think it way surpasses backing tracks in terms of difficulty to use. but not in terms of flexibility... its so much harder to have choruses and bridges etc. its why i dont use one,. i use backing tracks. am thinking of getting a looper for some tracks though.. would love to check your stuff though. cheers d I am working on getting some video up and will make sure to toss it up on here. While I am not as good as him and don't have quite the board set up, this is more what I was talking about and the style I lean towards. ^ That's talent and artistry. That isn't just thumping the guitar for the a moment and moving on. Not that I care, but people should be careful calling loopers "cheaters." It shows lack of understanding the art of it in my humble opinion. I use a MPC Drum Pad and Keyboard (Roland Juno Di) though, so I do less guitar manipulation and more instrumental additions. I also have the new Boss Rc-300 which gives you 3 phases to play with versus one on most loopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Some songs lend themselves well to looping, some don't.Play what you will. I usually play nekkid with, maybe, a stomp box but a looper would not be out of the questions.This song is perfect for a looper, and a harmonizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by eyesore huh!didn't mean to hurt anyones feelins here.also yeah way2def "strumming and campfire songs get old after a few tunes.i play form doc watson ,fingerstyle to kebmo type of music.wish icould post my solo stuff here but i don't know how. Upload it to box.net and post the share link here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Originally Posted by way2def ......... Enough of this bloviating! Somebody put up some samples of their solo stuff, please! (peeps on this forum seem to be rather shy of doing that, for some reason). Hell, I ain't proud. Here's Lion in the Winter, an old Hoyt Axton tune I cover, from a gig some years ago at an outside bar/lounge at a campground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks to Richard and Daklander for having their stuff available for listening. Thoroughly ENJOYED! Richard's voice goes down buttah-smooooove on the OJ/BJ stuff. Wish I could sing like that (not sure I play like that either..). Daklander is more than welcome at any campfire-related/wine drinking/fine dining event I will ever have the pleasure of attending (I'm attending one of those events right now, as matter of fact ) Nice touch and style on the acoustic, great vocals too! Pat, you got any acoustical stuff up? All this is a nice change of pace from curmudgeonly bloviating mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leftyjay Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 looper = backing track (almost)a looper is a way to make a BT on the fly. you use your voice, guitar, tambourine, etc to lay down a loop, then you play overtop it.my sequencer BTs are basicly a looper without limitation of time. i lay down all my tracks and call them up when needed. just like a looper, but i dont have to lay down each track while the audience is listening to me building it. the video up above of Matt Calder was fine to watch him demonstrate how he uses all that gear. alot involved considering it was the same loop throughout and he added and subtracted from the loop. there are not a lot of songs that play the same chords throughout the song (during verse, chorus, bridge). the part that i have a hard time dealing with is the building of the loop and the time it takes while you're on stage to get it before you can jump into the song. the video up above was 7 minutes and it took him nearly 2 minutes to lay down the loop. sure he did it live in front of everybody, but i could do the same thing making a backing track on my keyboard sequencer. if i was to just do a loop 8-16 bars, i could lay everything down in 3-4 passes of the loop, same as a looper would let me do. only thing is, i can store mine away and bring it up anytime i want. save the audience from the building process.loopers are cool "practice" tools. i currently have a boss rc-30 and can create loops and add vocals, play a guitar solo overtop, etc. i've even played my buddys rc-300 with all its options, but it still gets tiring to have to do it all again when you want to play the song next time. i tire of the constant building process of each song. and the audience has to listen to the building of the loop also. the first couple times they hear it, they think its cool. but then you tend to lose them after they heard it a few times.i've tried the looping thing, and it just doesn't let me do enough to justify it. i can see a musician that only plays guitar and sings getting into it since it gives him a little room to expand. it is a great practice tool for me sitting at home working on my guitar solos. trying new licks to perfect a part in a song i am working on. but other than that, it gets monotonous. in the time it takes to make a loop with a looper, i can lay down the same thing with my keyboard sequencer, and store it away for next time. once i build that loop, i can make another loop and store it away, then make another loop and store it away. then i can chain them all together and you have a "backing track"..... Amazing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 Originally Posted by leftyjay alot involved considering it was the same loop throughout and he added and subtracted from the loop. there are not a lot of songs that play the same chords throughout the song (during verse, chorus, bridge). True dat. I listened to several "Boss Looper winner 20XX" videos on youtube last night. The first one was a guy who had a drum set and a bass and keyboards. He built this whole thing and I thought it was pretty cool. But then I saw his next video and it took 2:30 to build the song, which was 3 chords repeating over and over, adding keys, bass, drums, tamborine, ketchup, mayonaise, mustard, relish, salt and pepper. There was a another video of him playing in a bar and it was sort of uncomfortable to watch him load in all these different parts while a guy shot pool in the background. As a musician, I can appreciate the cool at first, but immediately got bored with the repetition. Do you think that non-musician audiences would think it is cooler for longer, or would they be bored right off the bat? Maybe doing one of those plate-spinning numbers would be cool, but I'm not dragging out drums, bass, bagpipes and accordion for one song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike McLaughlin Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm with you guys. You would have to be really creative to hold an audience during a whole night of looping set up, and it does limit contrasting sections in a song. I enjoyed the video above, and have seen others that were as impressive. For my crowd, one song might be cool. I've been working on a looping cover of "Black Horse & the Cherry Tree". I could explain to the audience how KT layers the song during the process, and it's one that they should all be familiar with. Time to pull out the RC-2 and give it a go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 the part that i have a hard time dealing with is the building of the loop and the time it takes while you're on stage to get it before you can jump into the song As someone who uses a looper at every gig I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. If the loop takes longer than 20 to 30 seconds to do all your overdubs it gets old real real quick for a cover song gig. I try to do a loop in 1 to 3 takes. 1=rhythm with beatbox and/or guitar percussion. 2= any other guitar 3=bass line....If the song has different parts i do just #1.... Sometimes i will only loop in the middle of the song and then play a lead then omit the loop.Many times i will do no loop and bang the stompbox.The whole loop to make a complete song looks kinda cool for a bit but you will lose an auadience doing that crap for a 3 or 4 hour gig. I dont need a 7 to 10 minute version of "With or without you" ---hahahha!All that said i still like the looper over a full on backing track. I like the slight tempo differences based on my mood and the gig. I also like playing songs differently depending on the night. But I am doing alot of stuff like 90's rock at night gigs where the audience would laugh if I used a track to say Shimmer by Fuel. When i do my "buffett style" gigs tracks would be widely accepted. Lefty I am sure you and I have a bunch of mutual friends. I played down in Fort Myers, Sanibel, and Captiva for years before moving to North FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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