Members richardmac Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 One thing that comes up from time to time, that deserves a mention, is dancing. If you're playing someplace where people want to dance, backing tracks start making more sense. Some people have talked about how they can get people up and dancing with just their acoustic guitar, and I have seen that done. But for the average person (i.e. non-musician) it is both easier and more fun to dance to a performer with good backing tracks. I'm talking fast or regular dancing, not slow dancing - slow dancing will work without backing tracks. But people like to hear drums when they dance. They just do. Aaand, like I said before, bad backing tracks can work against you, kill the vibe, and clear the dance floor. That's one of the great things about live musical performances - the audience will let you know what they like and dislike. And it doesn't matter what anyone in a forum says - if you clear the dance floor, you did something they didn't like and you should not do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rodclement Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Since I sing and don't play an instrument other than percussion, I depend on a partner for gigs...sucks for me some times but is also rewarding to have someone else involved.If it came down to me not gigging anymore and using tracks, I might consider it, but there are so many talented musicians out there to play with that so far it hasn't been a problem. Music can be boring or fun, no matter how you play it, how you deliver it is what makes the difference, I can sing a song and get people into it, dancing, etc, or I can just sing a song, going through the paces and deliver the most boring performance ever, with tracks, no tracks, full band, etc.If using tracks suits your needs, go for it! If playing solo is your thing, good for you! Just make sure you deliver! That's what live music in bars needs these days, more live delivery and not just background music.Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charlie13 Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hey Jay, so the bottom line is,... i make more money using BTs. doing an acoustic only act around here (southwest florida) doesnt pay crap. this has to be the hotspot for solos and duos in the whole country. they are a dime a dozen down here. everyone of them want to be the next buffett. they all play for nothing just so they can say they play for a living. you have to do something special to rise above the mountain of low budget musicians around here. once you make yourself a nitch that nobody else can duplicate, then the money and jobs improve and you become in demand. thankfully, i can say i found my nitch. I agree with you a 100% about using BT's. I average 3 times what I would make just playing an acoustic and singing. Not that I dont see a need and relevance for that type of playing and singing, it's just hard to get paid decent money for it, around here (southwest GA) anyway. When I book myself I call it "Charlieband" as that is what I sell myself as...one man band. There's not a lot of us around these neck of the woods so I guess you could say I found my nitch also. However, having said that, I think this new restaurant gig I'm doing will require me to do an acoustic set especially the first set. Folks are listening and eating and BT's may be "too much sugar for a dime" so to speak. An acoustic set I think would fit the mood of the diners more appropriately early on, then bring out the BT's later on to see if any dancers want to participate. I know it's up to me to find what works and the owner is leaving that to my discetion, which is good. I look forward to the challenge. I have a lot of respect for those that can do a 4 hour acoustic show. The performance and endurance levels are much more demanding. That's why I'm really only concentrating on doing just one set. I might, mind you, might be able to pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Just as an aside, the word is "niche", not "nitch".' Just sayin'. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leftyjay Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 thanks for pointing that out BlueStrat... charlie13...i can see what you mean doing an acoustic set early on, then kicking it in later in the night. that would work. i'd make sure to advertise to stay around after dinner cause you'll be opening it up for some fun and dancing a little later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members souldonor Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am with ya. I don't like backing tracks it only shows that if a band were there you could keep up with them. May as well track in the vocals and guitar too. Hell have a holographic image piped in of a younger skinnier you.I do have a loop pedal. I may use it 3 or 4 times in a 4 hour gig. I use it on extremely boring guitar songs. ie. What I Got, Simple man, etc. when I don't want my hand to fall asleep playing the same two or three chords for 3 minutes. I also use it sometimes to do a harmonica solo, or a little lead. But I don't over use it.I also tap a tamborine or kick drum to enhance the mood and change up my sound so that every song doesn't have the same texture. I have noticed that when I play more upbeat stuff kicking on the kick drum folks tend to dance. It is a real drum and I am kickin' it though. not a sequenced in beat. As musicians we need to keep it as real as possible. Live music used to be special, because it was real. Now folks are so over sensitized that they don't play attention like they did ten years ago even. Don't pollute live music with pre-recorded junk. Don't pull an Ashley Simpson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members msmooth Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 How does the loop pedal work? do you "record" a verse while singing and then play it back to solo over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by souldonor Don't pollute live music with pre-recorded junk. Don't pull an Ashley Simpson. I don't have to listen to you, because you are just some guy in an Internet forum. You don't make the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by richardmac I don't have to listen to you, because you are just some guy in an Internet forum. You don't make the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by msmooth How does the loop pedal work? do you "record" a verse while singing and then play it back to solo over? That's how loop pedals work, yes. You record a phrase, verse, or any length you want, and then play it back like a backing track and you sing and/or play over it. Loopers like to say that this is not "cheating" because they are recording the track live in front of the audience instead of live in their bedroom. Looping requires more skill than playing to a background track, because if you make a mistake everyone can hear it. Some musicians look down on "loopers" because it's still essentially playing along with a recorded track. Musicians like to look down on each other so that they can feel good about themselves. Actually, not just musicians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Backing tracks are pretty cool when they're subtle. I think they bomb when it's a song with heavy drums and there's alot of horns and stuff and a guy with an acoustic guitar on his lap on stage. Playing solo gigs is an intimate experience. A big part of it is that connection between the listener and the noise that you're making with your mouth and your fingers. I feel like backing tracks are a barrier to that when they are done heavy-handedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by richardmac That's how loop pedals work, yes. You record a phrase, verse, or any length you want, and then play it back like a backing track and you sing and/or play over it. Loopers like to say that this is not "cheating" because they are recording the track live in front of the audience instead of live in their bedroom. Looping requires more skill than playing to a background track, because if you make a mistake everyone can hear it. Some musicians look down on "loopers" because it's still essentially playing along with a recorded track. Musicians like to look down on each other so that they can feel good about themselves. Actually, not just musicians... Ha ha! How true. I'm going to mess around with a looper at my solo gig tonight. Wish me luck- I've never really used one before. I'll mess around with it at home this afternoon and see if I can figure it out before I embarrass myself in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by BlueStrat Ha ha! How true. I'm going to mess around with a looper at my solo gig tonight. Wish me luck- I've never really used one before. I'll mess around with it at home this afternoon and see if I can figure it out before I embarrass myself in public. I have found that it works better for me to start the loop on the second verse. I had no idea how wobbly my timing was on the first verse till I got a looper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by cephus Backing tracks are pretty cool when they're subtle. I think they bomb when it's a song with heavy drums and there's alot of horns and stuff and a guy with an acoustic guitar on his lap on stage. Playing solo gigs is an intimate experience. A big part of it is that connection between the listener and the noise that you're making with your mouth and your fingers. I feel like backing tracks are a barrier to that when they are done heavy-handedly. There is one guy here in Malaysia who does that....and man...he gets booked way more than the others. At the end of the day...since he gets booked way more and makes way more...i'd say he is doing it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe There is one guy here in Malaysia who does that....and man...he gets booked way more than the others. At the end of the day...since he gets booked way more and makes way more...i'd say he is doing it right! I get that. But if $$$ is the yardstick that you measure by, you can make considerably more being a truck driver or a landscaper than you can playing music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I had no idea how wobbly my timing was on the first verse till I got a looper. Me too. I have even brought a mtronome to the gig on certain songs to get the initial tempo. Try putting down a percussive loop before you start playing---its hard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike McLaughlin Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 HaHa! and the backing track debate rages on!And my theory is being proved out. Those who poo-poo backing tracks do so because they can't keep a steady tempo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 'yardstick'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by cephus I get that. But if $$$ is the yardstick that you measure by, you can make considerably more being a truck driver or a landscaper than you can playing music. The definition of 'yardstick' is a grey and thin area. Your 'yardstick' will be different from mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 And my theory is being proved out. Those who poo-poo backing tracks do so because they can't keep a steady tempo! Its very hard to keep a steady tempo solo. Why do you think 99% of recording is done to a click track. Your statement is dumb, sorry. I used tracks before, went to college for music, and can definately keep a steady tempo.Try tapping the rhythm to a song you play, then check the actual tempo. Many times it will not be the same. Its alot harder to loop a consistant rhythm track before even starting the song then pressing play on your iPod.And again: Use tracks if you want or don't. It's your show!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by cephus I get that. But if $$$ is the yardstick that you measure by, you can make considerably more being a truck driver or a landscaper than you can playing music. But truck drivers don't play music. Well, I mean, they do, but on their stereo, not on an instrument... The debate only rages on because people continue to complain about it. Those of us who use tracks will continue to discuss it because we're here to discuss being a performing solo or duo musician. Those who wish to complain about it will continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by fingerpicker Its very hard to keep a steady tempo solo. Why do you think 99% of recording is done to a click track. Your statement is dumb, sorry. I used tracks before, went to college for music, and can definately keep a steady tempo. Try tapping the rhythm to a song you play, then check the actual tempo. Many times it will not be the same. Its alot harder to loop a consistant rhythm track before even starting the song then pressing play on your iPod. And again: Use tracks if you want or don't. It's your show!! I'm pretty sure he was kidding. I hope he was kidding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by richardmac The debate only rages on because people continue to complain about it. Those of us who use tracks will continue to discuss it because we're here to discuss being a performing solo or duo musician. Those who wish to complain about it will continue to do so. "Rage" might be too strong of a word. And, I'd consider a "complaint" someone saying "Guys using tracks ruin it for us nekkid performers." Seems like most non-backing track people are just stating why it doesn't work for them personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe 'yardstick'? It's what the nuns hit you with if they catch you talking in class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fancyfootwork Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Not to carrying on the debate, but I have to jump in here. I think people look at playing music as if they are apart of some sort of Top Chef competition. Who can be more creative, more innovative, more talented, etc. It becomes a competition and loses the purity of the music. Take a look at Adele or Kings Of Leon. Two artists/groups that are genuine creators of music and I feel are doing a really tried and true formula with little innovation, but a {censored}load of talent to what they are doing. What they bring to the table is themselves, their power, their message. To me, if you were going to compare, they make the best damn meatloaf and spaghetti you have ever had. Now sure, there are your Sonic Youth's and Velvet Underground that are more liquid nitrogen beef ice cream experiments, but most people (even trained ears) aren't going to get into it.When I look at playing out live, I ask myself how is this band at doing what they do? Are they taking something traditionally generic, but adding their own spin? Are they going way outside the box, but it is still approachable? Or, are they just making really bad meatloaf with instant mashed potatoes? Most backing track and loopers I have seen, make really bad meatloaf. And you know what, so do most live acts I see with no backing aids or tricks. If you make a killer meal, it doesn't matter what the ingredients are. For the record, I use live looping. It isn't boring, I use multiple layer threading and really make an art out of the looping itself. I make a killer meatloaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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