Your "Perfect" soundman

[Tomm Williams]

What are your biggest concerns when someone does your sound for you? And being completely honest--------at what level do you understand what is involved in doing sound?

[daddymack]

My biggest concern is tinkering.

I want to know what the sound is, period; set it right and leave it the heck alone.

As a performer, I rely on the settings being stable to know where I need to place myself relative to the mic an the monitor.

I understand sound...I was a soundman in the 70s/80s.

[BlueStrat]

i prefer doing my own. i'm a set it and forget it guy and i can count the sound guys here that I trust with one hand.

[dboomer]

;)

 

Talk to me on January 19th

[pogo97]

I remember, many years ago, going to see George Jones during a dry spell. One song required that he use his lowest range for one phrase and the sound man was supposed to be there to boost the mic level during that passage. Didn't happen. And absolutely no-one would have noticed, except that George had a hissy fit about it and the show, honestly, never really recovered.

 

Set and forget is not a bad concept.

[minn12]

 

What are your biggest concerns when someone does your sound for you? And being completely honest--------at what level do you understand what is involved in doing sound?

 

 

My biggest concern is having a sound man who pays attention to the mix, and doesn't spend his time texting his girlfriend behind the board. Another concern is a sound man who spends too much time tweeking the main EQ or outboard stuff all night, instead of watching what's occuring on stage. Stuff should be pretty much dialed in after the first few songs. And since I am a sound man myself, I understand perfectly what's involved in running sound, which is why I know a good sound guy when I see one in action. I went to see a band I run sound for myself a couple weeks ago, who were playing in a club where sound and sound guy were provided, and the sound guy actually left the board several times during their show to go outside to smoke. (My state does not allow indoor smoking in venues). I wasn't happy with that at all.

[Tomm Williams]

 

My biggest concern is tinkering. I want to know what the sound is, period; set it right and leave it the heck alone. As a performer, I rely on the settings being stable to know where I need to place myself relative to the mic an the monitor. I understand sound...I was a soundman in the 70s/80s.

 

 

Now this brings up an interesting opinion. By your statement, your soundman experience is between 30 and 40 years ago. No secret much has changed in that time. Do you feel hindered by that in any way?

[richardmac]

My personal pet peeve about sound guys is when you're playing acoustic and singing (nothing else going on) and they CRANK the {censored} out of the vocal and leave the guitar too low. Especially in the monitor mix. I hate that and it seems to happen a lot. My perfect sound man would not do that.

[Terry Allan Hall]

My only real gripe is when the soundperson has no idea of how to make my acoustic guitars sound "natural"...it amazes me how few can do that.

 

And, having run sound for friends' bands, as requested, for about 30 years, yes, I understand what is involved in doing sound.

[dboomer]

One of the challenges to making a guitar sound "natural" is natural to where? It sounds different where your ears are as a player than how it sounds in front to an audience. Grand pianos are even tougher when you think about it.

 

A second problem is the second you amplify it then it will never become the same as your ears now hear differently than they do at a lower volume.

 

Now the next problem is making it sound good in the context of mics and speakers AND if there are other instruments/players in the mix. Not so much with singles acts ... but I've worked with a number of musicians that don't realize that if each player in a band had their own "god tone" the result would not be good. A good soundman has the job of making the performance sound good as opposed to any single instrument.

 

My point ... there is a certain amount of give and take necessary here.

[MDLMUSIC]

My biggest gripe with soundmen (and I have a bunch of them) is not giving me the monitor mix I need to do my best. When they have the capability, but then refuse to do it the way I want it because "they know what sounds best", it drives me crazy.

 

I've done a couple of gigs where the soundman insisted on putting the saxophone through my stage monitor. The sax on stage is so loud I had trouble hearing myself sing as it is, but putting it through my monitor just added insult to injury.

[BlueStrat]

 

Now this brings up an interesting opinion. By your statement, your soundman experience is between 30 and 40 years ago. No secret much has changed in that time. Do you feel hindered by that in any way?

 

the equipment has changed a lot but the principles of live sound haven't. The biggest issue I have with too many sound guys today is 1) they don't seem to understand the purpose of the gain knob and what it does, hence feedback problems, 2) they don't know how to use mids, 3) they don't understand using FX for imaging in the mix, 4) they don' seem to think they ever have enough low end in the subs or that they're loud enough.

[TIMKEYS]

 

the equipment has changed a lot but the principles of live sound haven't. The biggest issue I have with too many sound guys today is 1) they don't seem to understand the purpose of the gain knob and what it does, hence feedback problems, 2) they don't know how to use mids, 3) they don't understand using FX for imaging in the mix, 4) they don' seem to think they ever have enough low end in the subs or that they're loud enough.

 

 

Too many knobs syndrome.

[daddymack]

;) Talk to me on January 19th

NAMM? I'll be there...

[daddymack]

Now this brings up an interesting opinion. By your statement, your soundman experience is between 30 and 40 years ago. No secret much has changed in that time. Do you feel hindered by that in any way?

Nope...the reality is that nothing has changed, really..sound, GOOD sound, is the same, just the toys are different. I still do most of the sound for our band (three of us are former sound guys ). A sound mans' first and foremost requirement is not the knob twirling, it is the listening. Getting the knobs to make the listening right is not as demanding as knowing when it is right

Many times when we do large stage work, I will ask the sound guy to allow me to mic my amp...because I already know exactly where the sweetspot is, and the correct angle...how could he? He may be able to guess...or he may not....but I know and most have been smart enough to allow me...one even diagrammed it after I set it, he liked it so much

[leftyjay]

if i HAVE to plug in to the house PA and there is a sound man for the establishment, i still bring in my setup (mixer, monitor speaker, mic, as well my regular gear) and send him a line out to the main mixer and he can turn my entire mix up or down and adjust the treble or bass. thats all i let them adjust. i still adjust the mix of the BT, guitars, keyboard, and effects.

 

too many house sound men like to fiddle with the mix. they love to add effects, turn up and down different things all night long. guess it gives them something to do so they dont get bored.

 

i usually tell them "here is my line out." "you can turn me up or down thru the mains." "you've got it easy tonight." "have a beer on me!"

 

i've never had one complaint. infact they thank me for making it easy on them.

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

One of the challenges to making a guitar sound "natural" is natural to where? It sounds different where your ears are as a player than how it sounds in front to an audience. Grand pianos are even tougher when you think about it. A second problem is the second you amplify it then it will never become the same as your ears now hear differently than they do at a lower volume. Now the next problem is making it sound good in the context of mics and speakers AND if there are other instruments/players in the mix. Not so much with singles acts ... but I've worked with a number of musicians that don't realize that if each player in a band had their own "god tone" the result would not be good. A good soundman has the job of making the performance sound good as opposed to any single instrument. My point ... there is a certain amount of give and take necessary here.

 

 

If I can do it (and I do several X a month), a "pro" soundperson SHOULD be able to do it, as well. The fact is that a lot of "pros" cannot do a competent job, possibly because they've ruined their ears mixing excessively loud volume levels or simply are not knowledgable about how an amplified acoustic instrument should be EQ'd.

[Tomm Williams]

 

My personal pet peeve about sound guys is when you're playing acoustic and singing (nothing else going on) and they CRANK the {censored} out of the vocal and leave the guitar too low. Especially in the monitor mix. I hate that and it seems to happen a lot. My perfect sound man would not do that.

 

 

You have a soundguy who changes your monitor mix mid-song? He could be using the channel gain to boost, Not realizing he's boosting the mains and monitors.

[Tomm Williams]

 

My only real gripe is when the soundperson has no idea of how to make my acoustic guitars sound "natural"...it amazes me how few can do that. And, having run sound for friends' bands, as requested, for about 30 years, yes, I understand what is involved in doing sound.

 

 

Terry----By the word "natural" I take that to mean as it would sound unamplified, is that what it means to you?. How well are you able to evaluate the sound of your guitar through FOH as compared to the monitors? (can you actually go out front and hear yourself?) Or is it the sound in the monitors that you don't like?

[Tomm Williams]

 

if i HAVE to plug in to the house PA and there is a sound man for the establishment, i still bring in my setup (mixer, monitor speaker, mic, as well my regular gear) and send him a line out to the main mixer and he can turn my entire mix up or down and adjust the treble or bass. thats all i let them adjust. i still adjust the mix of the BT, guitars, keyboard, and effects. too many house sound men like to fiddle with the mix. they love to add effects, turn up and down different things all night long. guess it gives them something to do so they dont get bored. i usually tell them "here is my line out." "you can turn me up or down thru the mains." "you've got it easy tonight." "have a beer on me!" i've never had one complaint. infact they thank me for making it easy on them.

 

 

How do you determine your FOH balance from the stage? Do you have your mixer set for a general setting and just leave it that way for each gig?

[tedmich]

4ft tall, pistol grip ears, flat head and turns into a pizza at midnight?

[Tomm Williams]

 

4ft tall, pistol grip ears, flat head and turns into a pizza at midnight?

 

 

I thought that was the girlfriend.

[BlueStrat]

 

How do you determine your FOH balance from the stage? Do you have your mixer set for a general setting and just leave it that way for each gig?

 

 

I can and do run a 5 piece band without a sound guy. I use a volume pedal as does the keyboard player, for solos. Sax player works the mic. Good players know how to lay in the mix. When we do festivals and concerts, we often get complimented by sound guys how easy we are to mix for them, since we boost all the solos and control stage dynamics ourselves.

[Tomm Williams]

 

I can and do run a 5 piece band without a sound guy. I use a volume pedal as does the keyboard player, for solos. Sax player works the mic. Good players know how to lay in the mix. When we do festivals and concerts, we often get complimented by sound guys how easy we are to mix for them, since we boost all the solos and control stage dynamics ourselves.

 

 

I did a multi band festival this year with a group (2-guys) that were well versed in what they were doing. Backing tracks that featured volume swells in certain places. Mostly just turn it on and go. Controlling your own dymanics is a pleasure to see (and hear). Quite often, (probably a majority of the time) I do sound for bands or festivals I'm unfamiliar with. An advance only tells me so much. Working with a band repeatedly is when things get good. There can be a large amount of territory between what the band wants and what the soundman (in his best judgment) thinks works best. Most of the time it works out to everyones satisfaction.

 

I can count on one finger the gigs I've done that I wish I could do over. Working with varied acts is a plus. Having done Bluegrass, Rock, Metal, Irish/Celtic, Country, Symphony events, I have a pretty fair idea what challenges I'm facing before the event starts. However once the music starts I always need to be ready for Murphy. Hands down, the best gigs are when the bands are willing to communicate in detail what they need. Advances are everything.

[Surrealistic]

When I'm performing solo I much prefer to control the sound myself. I use a lot of dynamics (from quiet fingerpicking passages to some serious string bashing) and sometimes even though I've given the sound men a sample of both in the sound check they'll attempt to even that out too much so the intended dynamic is lost. Having said that, I recognise that I'm far from an expert in sound engineering and a good soundman can make a huge difference to your performance.