Way too loud....

[Dark Ice]

Good thread!

A bar not too far away from he has an interesting solution to this very problem. They make a rule that all bands use the house kit, and the house amps (you can change the head for your own if you really want), and the amps are wired into attenuators which are located at the sound desk.

 

Its a great idea but it only works because of a very good understanding of the bands/music and patronage, a good understanding of the gear involved, and sufficient investment to make it work well.

 

Nobody complains about the backline because theres a selection of a HiWatt, a Marshall and an ENGL (I forget the models, I think its a powerball and a DSL2000), ampeg fridge, the kits something on the same level as a pearl masters, and noone complains about not being able to hear themselves because the PA and mons are Funktion one, fed from an 01V and run by a guy with a good rep locally.

 

The result is really ace, I love going there whenever I can and the place enjoys a spectacular reputation locally.

http://www.aberdeen-music.com/forums/moorings-bar/11533-everything-you-wanted-know-about-moorings-bar.html

 

Steve.

[JrMaFia]

If you can't hear urself you need an amp that goes to 11 so this way if the guy is playing at 10 you can play 1 higher at eleven

[lonotes]

Maybe try 3?

3 is too early. The early-bird buffet crowd is in full swing. :poke:

[BigMac5]

Loud is a relative term. What maybe loud to me, may not be loud to another person and vice versa. I've been told that it was too loud, and not loud enough by different people at the same gig with the same volume.

 

That's why I take a SPL meter now, I aim for 100-105 dba slow at FOH.

[stevesherbert]

i agree that bands often use excessive amounts of volume onstage and this is a problem. however, sometimes i think the blame lies partly with the club and/or the soundguy.

 

bar owners: if you book a metal band, chances are the band's going to have loud ass guitar amps. if your customers don't like it, then stop booking metal bands. another idea is to provide a (decent) backline with attenuators or plexi glass, like someone mentioned before. customers standing (or god forbid, sitting) right next to the stage or mains aren't going to be able to carry a conversation over the band no matter how quiet the guitar amps are. ask them to sit somewhere else in your bar.

 

sound guys: bands understand that mixing is tougher when the amps onstage are blasting into the club. but if the guitarists can't hear themselves properly, then no matter how great your mix is, the music will suck. if you want the guys to turn down their amps, then you'd better be prepared to give them a kick ass LOUD monitor mix that they can hear over the drums. and don't act all douchebaggy when the guys onstage ask for adjustments to their monitors. if you take on the responsibility, then you better have good monitors and the ability/patience to tweak each person's mix. playing in your club is probably not the best situation for the band, and understandably the band is probably not your favorite thing to mix. work together with the band to make the best show (i.e. mix, energy, vibe) possible.

[agedhorse]

------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have trouble with bleed on my vocal mic when I do this. My vocal mic is not far from my ear level as well. I like my amp on the floor in front of me next to my stage monitor, or on the side of the stage.

 

 

An indication that the volume is too high...

[Unalaska]

Many tube amps use a linear pot for volume. Playing at 2 is only a little quieter than at 6, so when I hear a guitarist complain about being on 2 I ask if they've ever turned it up, many say no.

[Craig Vecchione]

Many tube amps use a linear pot for volume. Playing at 2 is only a little quieter than at 6, so when I hear a guitarist complain about being on 2 I ask if they've ever turned it up, many say no.

 

This is a concept that many of the guitarists (and bassists) I've spoken with don't seem to understand. "Dude, it' on, like, ONE, and it's blasting! I've got like NINE more to go! Dude!!!!":rolleyes:

 

Mention log taper, and you get that look Mark best described as how cattle look at you. Then, "well I don't know about that, but this thing is blasting and it's only using like 10% of its power!"

 

[Marc G]

Amp arangement on stage could help.... when my band plays smaller venues once there is a PA to go through we will set our amps up like side fills so they aren't shooting out into the crowd and let the engineer mix us through the PA. That being said... I still might get complaints that my Tiny Terror is too loud! LOL and the other 2 guitarist in the band have a Mesa Mark IV and a Mesa Mark III...lol

[Bryan316]

If you have a combo amp, either elevate it up, or angle it at your head. My lead guitarist has this first stand and cannot be happier. There's plenty of affordable solutions here, with the last one being a TWELVE DOLLAR solution. There's no excuse for you to not afford this.











And if you MUST have a 412 cabinet because of the tonality of a big sealed-back cabinet as opposed to an open-back combo, then get a slant-top cabinet. It was the dumbest idea ever, to produce a speaker cabinet with all four speakers aimed straight forward instead of aimed at your head. There's plenty of great cabinets with the top two speakers tilted back, so you can get better dispersion and get your sound aimed at your head instead of your kneecaps. Invest in proper gear, invest in GOOD gear, and you'll be far happier with your sound and can concentrate on playing, instead of tweaking and fixing and moving and adjusting.

[lonotes]

If you have a combo amp, either elevate it up, or angle it at your head. My lead guitarist has this first stand and cannot be happier. There's plenty of affordable solutions here, with the last one being a TWELVE DOLLAR solution. There's no excuse for you to not afford this.

One nice feature of this particular stand is that you can mount a gooseneck or boom to the top of it, and eliminate the need for a separate mic stand. Very handy on a cramped stage.

[Bryan316]

Oh I didn't notice that before! SLICK!

 

*shops for goose neck*

 

*calls rhythm guitarist*

[twostone]

Here in my area most bar owner I've dealt with are right up front about volumes. They have no qualms about telling you if your to loud you can pack your {censored} up and hit the door and don't expect any pay. I just learn to ask them them after sound check what da ya think most will let me know your to {censored}ing loud or it just right. Some places I've played at I can raise the roof off while other place will only let us play above a whisper. So I always let the owner have the final say so that way I always get a re-hire and so far I've been re-hired at every place I've ever gigged at. Now if I can just score the more up scale venues which ain't happen yet.

[lonotes]

Oh I didn't notice that before! SLICK! *shops for goose neck* *calls rhythm guitarist*

 

 

I have a couple of those Genesis stands. I usually use a combination of this;

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/BoomMini--Main

 

and this;

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/BoomTele--Main

 

Although it's considerably cheaper, a gooseneck can be a little too flexible. The above combination gives as much flexibility in positioning the mic, but also allows you lock it down once you have the mic where you want it.

[WynnD]

The few times that an owner has asked my band to turn up has resulted in a degradation of sound quality. If it happens in the future, we'll say yes, but not really do anything. Can't remember the last time a place asked us to back off. One bar said nothing during the gig, but the manager when asked about it later, said the band was loud. (That band wasn't asked back and the group wanted to be added to the rotation. Stage volume 107+ DBc Which is loud to me.)

[Craig Vecchione]

 

One bar said nothing during the gig, but the manager when asked about it later, said the band was loud. (That band wasn't asked back...

 

 

 

Now that's just stupid of the bar owner, IMO. Expecting a band or sound person to hit an arbitrary volume mark is just setting them up for failure. Communication doesn't live on a one-way street.

[The Real MC]

Great thread. I am tired of guitar players who complain they can't get "their sound" at lower volume and insist on pointing the amps at their knees not their ears thereby blasting the audience. There are plenty of guitar amps out there that can get decent tone at lower volume, they just need to get off their lazy arse and get 'em.

Guitar players, remember this well - bars hire you to sell drinks not to feed your ego. The audience funds your paycheck. Alienate the audience with your ignorant volume demands and you lose your crowd along with your pay.

[The Chinese]

Great thread. I am tired of guitar players who complain they can't get "their sound" at lower volume and insist on pointing the amps at their knees not their ears thereby blasting the audience. There are plenty of guitar amps out there that can get decent tone at lower volume, they just need to get off their lazy arse and get 'em. Guitar players, remember this well - bars hire you to sell drinks not to feed your ego. The audience funds your paycheck. Alienate the audience with your ignorant volume demands and you lose your crowd along with your pay.

 

 

Ow man!!!! It's not every Guitar player that does this...and it's also not entirely their fault that the best tones often came from a Frigging Marshall 100wt at Full Volume.

 

The reason Guitarists aim their Amps at their feet is to get coupling. Most don't know why their doing it, but tonally, most sound a lot better when coupled to the floor. The Tilt back stands suck for that reason.

 

 

That being said, there's no excuse for a Guitarist to get all petulant about thier "Tone". It's why I got Stomp boxes, and bought an Amp with a Half Power Switch. Why I got a Line Booster (For Solos!!!).

 

Todd A.

[SpaceNorman]

 

Now that's just stupid of the bar owner, IMO. Expecting a band or sound person to hit an arbitrary volume mark is just setting them up for failure. Communication doesn't live on a one-way street.

 

 

Great point Craig ... but shame on the band that doesn't check in with the people who hired them (i.e., the bar owner) periodically throughout the night to ask if volume is OK.

 

The bands that wait until the end of the night to find out that management thought they were too loud are going to find themselves on the outside looking in alot more than they need to.

[caseyjf]

The reason Guitarists aim their Amps at their feet is to get coupling. Most don't know why their doing it, but tonally, most sound a lot better when coupled to the floor. The Tilt back stands suck for that reason. Todd A.

 

 

I've never heard of such a thing. I cant imagine why that would make it sound any different either. IME it makes no difference to have them on the floor vs stacked on top of something. Explain this theory of yours??

[lsits]

Methinks the OP was a troll. He only made that one post.

[fingerpicker]

Heres a solution:
put in a quality house PA. The band(or their soundman) controls the board. The power amps are seperate to where only the bar owner can get to them. You control the volume. Either No large guitar amps aloud, or set the stage up to where their amps are behind players head. There is a place in Ybor city (Tampa,FL) that has a similliar setup.

[Dogoth]

It's your place, correct? You're the one who pays the bands, correct? You decide who plays, and who doesn't and who returns and who doesn't, correct? I fail to see a problem here. Kindly and professionally explain your requirements for the entertainment before hiring a band. If they simply can't contain their volume to the point where you and most importantly *your patrons* (the ones who are paying you and the band) are happy, then they can decline the gig, no hard feelings. If they can't oblige the commitment they made during a show, give them ONE warning, and then end their show at the end of the first set if the warning isn't heeded. You are in control here, and need to keep your patrons, not the band's ego, satisfied.

 

 

EXACTLY CORRECT!

[Dogoth]

Ow man!!!! It's not every Guitar player that does this...and it's also not entirely their fault that the best tones often came from a Frigging Marshall 100wt at Full Volume. The reason Guitarists aim their Amps at their feet is to get coupling. Most don't know why their doing it, but tonally, most sound a lot better when coupled to the floor. The Tilt back stands suck for that reason. That being said, there's no excuse for a Guitarist to get all petulant about thier "Tone". It's why I got Stomp boxes, and bought an Amp with a Half Power Switch. Why I got a Line Booster (For Solos!!!). Todd A.

 

 

Woah, Please don't get me started on this one. I will just say that I respectfuly disagree with the "gotta be loud to get good tone" theory. I've seen it done many times otherwise.

[Shaster]

Woah, Please don't get me started on this one. I will just say that I respectfuly disagree with the "gotta be loud to get good tone" theory. I've seen it done many times otherwise.

 

 

One of the best guitar tones I've ever had was a Fender Strat into a Mesa Boogie Studio 22 caliber (20 watts +/-) with a Rat pedal. The other "best tone" was an original Guild Bluesbird into a Fender Dual Showman with four 12" Altec Lansing speakers (this was even further back in the day).

 

Sound dudes and band mates loved the Mesa (just mic and monitor it) but of course were not too keen on the "comb filter King" Showman/Lansing monster.