I need a PA for a 2 piece extra spicy rock 'n' roll band

[TIMKEYS]

How about this, try adding the phrase

[jwlussow]

The type of keyboard sound I play is similar to Elton John. Not a lot of low end is needed. You could say I'm a higher end player on keys. Do I still need a sub just for rehersal?

 

You again? How dare you interrupt our discussion

 

In my opinion, a subs should be a standard piece of gear for both rehearsals and performances. I like them in rehearsals so you can get used to them. They will change the overall sound. Are they required? Probably not. I

[jwlussow]

 

thats why I like powered speakers ,,, matched up at the factory. Best thing since slicedbread when it comes to PA gear. My guess is that our set lists are not all that different as far as up temp stuff and doing rock. We typically start out the night with the front guy doing solo stuff during the peak of the dinner hour then at 7 or so bring in the full band and to till 10 or later. down here everything is dinner shows ,, we are different because we put up a full band after the lounge lizard hour. thats why we are filling up the club on most nights of the week. If you wanna drop me a PM i would be more than happy to clue you in on who we are and what we do, and why we do it.

 

 

That sounds like a great idea. I

[TIMKEYS]

You again? How dare you interrupt our discussion   In my opinion, a subs should be a standard piece of gear for both rehearsals and performances. I like them in rehearsals so you can get used to them. They will change the overall sound. Are they required? Probably not. I

[TIMKEYS]

That sounds like a great idea. I

[jwlussow]

 

South Padre Island texas.

 

 

Dude..... I

[modulusman]

 

Actually its more a band made up of retired guys. some of which were signed to major labels back in the day. The front guy has stuff playing on the radio and has cracked the top 20 on the roots country chart. We are all financially in a position where we dont need to worry about gig splits as much as you do. Its a good band and the new venue is on its way to being a great success. Everyone has different goals when it comes to music. You should start out 2011 by setting a personal goal for yourself of not being such a nasty person. you might then find the financial gods smiling upon you rather then kickin you in the ass.

 

 

Well maybe someday you will be good enough to get paid. Why do you even post on the live sound board? You should be asking questions not giving answers since as far as I can tell your advice is either outdated or wrong. I don't know if it is just cause you like to flap your lips or what.

[Mutha Goose]

 

...In my opinion, a subs should be a standard piece of gear for both rehearsals and performances. I like them in rehearsals so you can get used to them. They will change the overall sound...

 

 

I have to disagree with you here. I play in hard rock and heavy metal bands and have for MANY years. I've never needed a sub for rehersal. Would using one help? Hell no! If you are needing a sub in rehersal you are playing too loud! Either that, or you have a rehersal room that I am insanely jealous of. Save your ears man! Oh course, just to avoid any unneeded ire, this is just my opinion :poke:

 

As to the OP: personally I don't see the NEED for a sub for the average duo. You may WANT one. I know I want them when I play out, but then again I'm playing hard rock to full loud clubs. Personally, I would suggest you buy a qualty 12" powered speaker (there are many to choose from and you can read all of the debates here of which is better than which). Play with it for a while. If you feel you're missing some low end, go out and grab the matching sub. Otherwise, you're good to go.

[TIMKEYS]

Dude..... I

[tim_7string]

A sub would sound good for the guitar/keyboard-drums duo that the OP is in. Drums just sound a lot better when the kick drum "pumps." The lower frequencies of the guitar and keyboards would also sound smoother through the PA system with the addition of a subwoofer. But that's if *everything* is miced or lined into the PA system, otherwise there isn't much point.

 

I agree that for most guitar-guitar, guitar-bass guitar or guitar-keyboard duos that a sub can be overkill. It depends on the venue and what you are hired to play. From what I've been reading, jwlussow and tlbonehead both have a situation where they play high energy music whether the drummer is there or not (duo and power trio). Obviously in those circumstances, subs are going to be essential for delivering a kick-ass sound. Playing James Taylor and Jack Johnson songs all night...not so much.

[agedhorse]

There are also shows that I do where a sub is not necessary or even desireable, especially if I can use a slightly larger box like a UPA-1. The point of my comments is that it REALLY DEPENDS on the show, the venue, the artist, the music, the necessary volume, the coverage, the budget, etc.

 

Typically I do larger shows than many here, but even when I do a smaller show (~300) and a solo or duo, it depends on the above factors if I use subs.

[wades_keys]

Bottom line is:

Know your gig

 

Some guys starting out put more effort into gear than they do into even figuring out where they are going to play. Not saying that's true with the OP.

 

An extreme example is a goofball I was in a band with: he got himself an Ampeg 8x10 fridge. No problem: play what you like. But the damn fool had a VW jetta for transpo.

 

No Dave, I won't haul your fridge to the gig for you. Not now, not ever.

[tlbonehead]

Bottom line is: Know your gig Some guys starting out put more effort into gear than they do into even figuring out where they are going to play. Not saying that's true with the OP. An extreme example is a goofball I was in a band with: he got himself an Ampeg 8x10 fridge. No problem: play what you like. But the damn fool had a VW jetta for transpo. No Dave, I won't haul your fridge to the gig for you. Not now, not ever.

how stupid is stupid?

[tlbonehead]

From a pure technical point of view ,,, subs cover a freq range that you wont get with the typical PA speaker. From a practical point of view,, draggin in subs on the typical duo gig is overkill. It defeats the reason why places go with solo and duo acts. They want a small cut down format that fits into not only a budget but stage footprint. Its real easy to lose track of the basic objective when you get gear heads who do sound for a living involved in how small bars operate. duos and solo acts are basically music on the cheap for most bars in this country.... they want them in ,play three hours and out with not much in the way of set up or load out. They dont require the lowest of the lows when it comes to sound. A keyboard and a guitar playing typically duo material doesnt require subs. The pa deal is a bit like fishing... they dont want a guy to show up with a 49k bass boat ,,multiple fishing rods and tackle boxes all zooted up with a matching extended cab 4x4 with the team logos on the side,,, they want a guy with a cane pol that can catch fish. we can agree to disagree on this and that is cool. To be honest,, I think our OP prolly has a good handle on about what he needs to do the duo thing already..... dont confuse the guy by going all technocrat on him lol.

you seem to be stating your vision of what a duo HAS to be, as fact. My duo has done outdoor gigs for up to 1000 people.

[wades_keys]

 

how stupid is stupid?

 

Dave's a good guy but man, he's pretty goofy.

[Visconti]

Bottom line is: Know your gig Some guys starting out put more effort into gear than they do into even figuring out where they are going to play. Not saying that's true with the OP. An extreme example is a goofball I was in a band with: he got himself an Ampeg 8x10 fridge. No problem: play what you like. But the damn fool had a VW jetta for transpo. No Dave, I won't haul your fridge to the gig for you. Not now, not ever.

 

That won't happen in my band because we don't have a bass player

[wades_keys]

That won't happen in my band because we don't have a bass player

Doing the key bass thing, huh?

 

I hear that.

 

I do a little of that myself, but these days my main instrument is bass. Sometimes I wish we could have a full time keys player, but I don't want to be that guy now: I just love playing the bass. It's tough to keep the keys chops up to speed in that context: I was a much better keys player a few years ago than I am now, technically speaking.

[TIMKEYS]

 

you seem to be stating your vision of what a duo HAS to be, as fact. My duo has done outdoor gigs for up to 1000 people.

 

 

Thats a tough one ,,,, its pretty hard for a duo to justify the PA system to do that big an outdoor gig when those dont come along on a regular basis. We did a big outdoor festival show in october,,,, we were lucky that it was one where they had a big pro sound company taking care of the PA. The headliner was a national act. Shows like that are always original material so its not like its a cover band situation for us. Hopfully we will start doing more of that kind of stuff in the future. Playing with the big boys PA gear was really fun.. Plug and play not much in the way of grunt. Yea and we had subs ,, like 4 great big mothers and a crapper load of Mains flying up on the towers. No idea what that system costs but it had to be alot.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Well maybe someday you will be good enough to get paid. Why do you even post on the live sound board? You should be asking questions not giving answers since as far as I can tell your advice is either outdated or wrong. I don't know if it is just cause you like to flap your lips or what.

 

 

 

I just gotta laugh at you ,,,, but thanks for the karma ,,, got the word tonight ,,, the gig pay is gonna start flowing jan 1. The new dig is really doing well. Its been packin out every night ... It looking like all the hard work by everyone is going to start paying off. We are looking forward to a great 2011.

[tlbonehead]

Thats a tough one ,,,, its pretty hard for a duo to justify the PA system to do that big an outdoor gig when those dont come along on a regular basis. We did a big outdoor festival show in october,,,, we were lucky that it was one where they had a big pro sound company taking care of the PA. The headliner was a national act. Shows like that are always original material so its not like its a cover band situation for us. Hopfully we will start doing more of that kind of stuff in the future. Playing with the big boys PA gear was really fun.. Plug and play not much in the way of grunt. Yea and we had subs ,, like 4 great big mothers and a crapper load of Mains flying up on the towers. No idea what that system costs but it had to be alot.

I have all the gear for the main band so I just use that for the bigger duo gigs.

[335BoB]

I just gotta laugh at you ,,,, but thanks for the karma ,,, got the word tonight ,,, the gig pay is gonna start flowing jan 1. The new dig is really doing well. Its been packin out every night ... It looking like all the hard work by everyone is going to start paying off. We are looking forward to a great 2011.

 

I was waiting for the come-back. I'll leave it at that.

[335BoB]

 

Thats a tough one ,,,, its pretty hard for a duo to justify the PA system to do that big an outdoor gig when those dont come along on a regular basis. We did a big outdoor festival show in october,,,, we were lucky that it was one where they had a big pro sound company taking care of the PA. The headliner was a national act. Shows like that are always original material so its not like its a cover band situation for us. Hopfully we will start doing more of that kind of stuff in the future. Playing with the big boys PA gear was really fun.. Plug and play not much in the way of grunt. Yea and we had subs ,, like 4 great big mothers and a crapper load of Mains flying up on the towers. No idea what that system costs but it had to be alot.

 

 

Hey!!! I have a question for EVERYONE here!

 

What would be a PA for rehersal and some live shows to cover our bases for under $2,000?

 

I'm thinking a couple of QSC K12's and an Allen & Heath ZED-12FX will do.

[tlbonehead]

Hey!!! I have a question for EVERYONE here! What would be a PA for rehersal and some live shows to cover our bases for under $2,000? I'm thinking a couple of QSC K12's and an Allen & Heath ZED-12FX will do.

what are your bases? For my smaller duo gigs we use a Yorkie AP812 powered mixer powering the passive top cabs (Peavey PR12s) and a pair of Proel FLASH15 active subs. For prctice, well we seldom practice. We usually add a few new songs a month and do them on the fly. But if we do get together for practice it is usually very low volume, small amps and no PA most of the time.

[335BoB]

 

what are your bases? For my smaller duo gigs we use a Yorkie AP812 powered mixer powering the passive top cabs (Peavey PR12s) and a pair of Proel FLASH15 active subs. For prctice, well we seldom practice. We usually add a few new songs a month and do them on the fly. But if we do get together for practice it is usually very low volume, small amps and no PA most of the time.

 

 

That didn't look familiar??? It was the original post.

[tlbonehead]

That didn't look familiar??? It was the original post.

I didn't realize your bases were exactly the same as the OPs.