Members mike.sartori Posted January 1, 2008 Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 @chu2 some people will think you're a douche no matter what you say. as for cloning protection, they already tried the epoxy, but it doesn't stop a person that's really determined. And epoxy looks likes {censored} physically, and the act is even funnier when what you are hiding is a clone of another circuit someone made that you copied +1 Goop is very rarely used to protect an original circuit; it's used to help you get away with selling a rehashed circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chu2 Posted January 1, 2008 Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 @chu2 some people will think you're a douche no matter what you say. as for cloning protection, they already tried the epoxy, but it doesn't stop a person that's really determined. And epoxy looks likes {censored} physically, and the act is even funnier when what you are hiding is a clone of another circuit someone made that you copied I have to agree with you on that. But it'll deter most people. So pedalbuilders are screwed either way. Unless you make a circuit that's locked in three safes cradled inside one another, Russian doll style, with only the potentiometers mounted in a hammond box outside and wires leading into the safes, which are then encased in a poured-concrete enclosure to further make sure no one gets in and steals the pedal design.Talk about heavy tone. It's a futile business, I tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SUPER VELCROBOY Posted January 1, 2008 Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 +1 Goop is very rarely used to protect an original circuit; it's used to help you get away with selling a rehashed circuit. Well i don't want to go that far without proof. That is why i think fs.org is so nice because after all the dust has settled, you have learned that some of these gooped circuit are indeed really just borrowed work or even worse near exact clones. So you have to wonder how pervasive this practice really is. Before someone comes in and say i generalize, this is not saying that every builders do this. I think the gooped Klon is quite original. I have no doubt many if not most of the people in the biz have realized this for so long long and just turn a blind eye. Places like diystompbox which have been really good to the community share circuits freely with everyone but concomitantly ban specific circuits. It's no surprise to me they spawn a rebel like fs.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chu2 Posted January 1, 2008 Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 What a strange country to live in it must be...ruled by lawyers:DTell me about it...And why do all these threads, where people could have a sensible debate, turn into personal insult threads? How hard is it to ignore people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 1, 2008 Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 Well i don't want to go that far without proof. That is why i think fs.org is so nice because after all the dust has settled, you have learned that some of these gooped circuit are indeed really just borrowed work or even worse near exact clones. So you have to wonder how pervasive this practice really is. Before someone comes in and say i generalize, this is not saying that every builders do this. I think the gooped Klon is quite original. I have no doubt many if not most of the people in the biz have realized this for so long long and just turn a blind eye. Places like diystompbox which have been really good to the community share circuits freely with everyone but concomitantly ban specific circuits. It's no surprise to me they spawn a rebel like fs.org.Doesn't surprise me at all either. What surprises me is how the loudest personalities there don't even play guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted January 2, 2008 Members Share Posted January 2, 2008 What a strange country to live in it must be...ruled by lawyers:D In the US, if you sue someone, or are sued by someone, the only real winners are usually the lawyers. They get paid either way, and often even if you win a suit, you never get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Edited Phil, Happy New Year All!:phil:And a Happy New Year to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NYPD Posted January 2, 2008 Members Share Posted January 2, 2008 In the US, if you sue someone, or are sued by someone, the only real winners are usually the lawyers. They get paid either way, and often even if you win a suit, you never get paid.Man you can say that again! My cousin is still going through the motions after a guy (scam artist) fell in his store over a year ago. He should have paid off the guy out of court, the lawyers fees have been killing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TaZMaNiO Posted January 2, 2008 Members Share Posted January 2, 2008 [YOUTUBE] [/YOUTUBE]:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TaZMaNiO Posted January 2, 2008 Members Share Posted January 2, 2008 Doesn't surprise me at all either. What surprises me is how the loudest personalities there don't even play guitar. Oh, I wouldn't know about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Thats a lot of credit. I imagine them to be 15 year olds living at home popping pimples maybe working part time at Baskin Robbins.Wow that's a little harsh. Do some pedal makers really have such a low opinion of people interested in electronics and home made effects? Or just ones that want to dissect your pedals? If the former, then I assume you were also once fat, smelly, Kentucky Fried Chicken eaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 People interested in electronics? That's about 99% of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 People interested in electronics? That's about 99% of the country. Not quite so high a percentage when you take the interest in home made effects part into the equation, but still enough to make them rather strange statements against a lot of potential customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Wow that's a little harsh. Do some pedal makers really have such a low opinion of people interested in electronics and home made effects? Or just ones that want to dissect your pedals? If the former, then I assume you were also once fat, smelly, Kentucky Fried Chicken eaters? It's not about a low opinion of DIY'ers or even folks who may want to try making it a biz. Its about a low opinion of those who go on rants and crusades about how consumers are somehow being ripped off for buying a more expensive piece of gear built domestically. Frankly I don't understand this position because if it's too expensive for you then simply don't buy it. Going about it in the hostile way some do at FS.org is really not much removed from coercion. These folks falsely portray builders as being anti-DIY, thieves and hypocritical. Especially if you are like the original poster of this thread who does this on as many forums as possible. Frankly, the complaints about too expensive comes from 3 types. The rest of the people in the market simply don't buy what they can't afford. Again, I rarely hear people bitch about Aquafina being too expensive, they simply drink tap water. 1.)The current builder who wants to look like they are beyond it as in "I'm not like that. I don't RIP people off like that." 2.)The want to builder who wants to look like they will be beyond it as in "I'm not like that. I won't RIP people off like that." 3.)The failed builder (or in life generally) who wants to drag others into their failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Devi Ever Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members p3dalwh0re Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 WELCOME TO THE INTERNET,YOU MUST BE NEW HERE Seriously people, mindless rants and pornography are why the Internet exists. It's a little late to get annoyed.Edit: In addition, I'm starting to wonder whether sniffing too many lead fumes gives people The Angers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Frankly I don't understand this position because if it's too expensive for you then simply don't buy it. But you've got to see why some people may shout hypocrisy when some builders "let the market dictate the price" and sell a pedal for $400 that is based around an existing design and call it "inspiration". And then call some fat bloke with a skin complaint and a soldering iron a thief because he wants to do similar. I'm not criticising the prices, if enough people will buy them then more power to you. But if a seriously small percentage of the guitar playing population want to spend time and effort trying to take on a building project because they can't afford your prices, or maybe just because they like the challenge, then I can't see it costing you a lot in the long run. If someone were to copy your design verbatim and sell it on commercially then I may agree with you. But having said that, if they change the odd op-amp or capacitor value, then aren't they really doing the same thing as many other boutique pedal builders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EL KABONG Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 some people here sure love to LABEL other people thats pretty lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daryl Chaney Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 very few people build their own pedals and even fewer bootleg them for a profit. I imagine it may be a bigger problem in Europe where American boutique pedals are crazy expensive though.Aye, theres not many people who build there own pedals, and most who do make a shambles of it and give up. But some those who do make their own pedals start their own creations and we get a builder into the system and maybe they have some stuff which ends up being amazing! I think Mallekko would be an example of this, although i've no idea if they had permission or whatever for the B:ASSMASTER. Its just an example, flame me if im wrong on this one. Cant wait for the Holy Erectus though , now theres an original design!Basically we wouldnt have half the boutique builders if there wasn't people reverse engineering pcb's or schematics out there that these people learned from. Although this doesnt make it right for people trying to make a business out of purley cloning current boutique builders original designs.Its true about Europe though, the american boutique stuff is nearly double the price buying it in Europe than where its original manufactured. Even with Vat/Import taxes you cannot put that much of a markup on things.Its cheaper and easier to deal directly with the manufactuer or even a US store than deal with the european shops selling US boutique stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RelicJunky Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 The whole concept being presented here is lame. These ass hats at freestomboxes may be able to reverse engineer an fx but they dont (in most cases) even play guitar. How would it sound like the original? Who is going to build it on any sort of scale that would even pose a threat to an fx maker? The similarity of all dirt boxes makes the whole deal redundant. Brand recognition and professional association is what sells. Why dont we talk a little more about how unoriginal these designs are? There are consumers that are paying over $200 for smd right now based on brand name alone, why not buy a bad monkey. Same type of tones and same manufacture. I am offended by how hard people have to work not to offend anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EL KABONG Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 OMG U have a dual Cameltoe? OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RelicJunky Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 OMG U have a dual Cameltoe? OMG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RUExp? Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 dual cameltoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soapbladder Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hmm... As a lawyer, I smell a losing argument. 100k upfront is incredibly steep too, with only a marginal possibility of success. Either this is a (fabricated) excuse for a price increase via ebay or those lawyers are as much theives as the wanker-board guys. SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members p3dalwh0re Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hmm... As a lawyer, I smell a losing argument.100k upfront is incredibly steep too, with only a marginal possibility of success. Either this is a (fabricated) excuse for a price increase via ebay or those lawyers are as much theives as the wanker-board guys.SB Welcome to a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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