Members sixstringmuse Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 d'oh! spelling nazi'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 No that's not my point. I'm saying 99.9% of the believers out there believe what they do because they were told to / raised amongst their particular sect of religion. For example an Iraqi raised Muslim, and an American raised Christian. It wasn't a choice and because your to weak, and must avoid independent thinking and in turn believe in magic. Curious; when did you invent evolution? I say invent because, judging by your post, you couldn't have learned of evolution from others; not in school or from a documentary or from parents. Otherwise, you'd be no better than the brainless and indoctrinated masses. You do not make as many choices as you think. Self defeating post is self defeating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy shows that matter cannot be created or destroyed, therefore it must have always been. This can be tested and proven, unlike the creation fairytales written by mortal men just like me and you. Oh, and if everything was created "as is", then how do we have fossils of dinosaurs??? hahaha Look at every society and religion in the world. Each one has written it's own creation story. Doesn't that prove to you that Christianity's creation story is just another STORY? What makes it special? It has been shown through past and present societies that man seeks an answer to his own creation, and therefore creates an answer. If you believe in the Christian creation story then you should also believe in Greek Mythology, etc. etc. Faith is a joke. I can have faith that the sky is green but it will always be blue. Why believe something with no proof over something with plenty of proof? It's because we find comfort in believing that there is more to this world than science. That is all. I remember what my guitar teacher told me at 15. "Religion is just a crutch for society, created by society". I thank him for opening my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixstringmuse Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Curious; when did you invent evolution? I say invent because, judging by your post, you couldn't have learned of evolution from others; not in school or from a documentary or from parents. Otherwise, you'd be no better than the brainless and indoctrinated masses.You do not make as many choices as you think.Self defeating post is self defeating. no no no you dont get it, we're weak minded sheep, six acre lake on the other hand, he's an innovator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicVI Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy shows that matter cannot be created or destroyed, therefore it must have always been. This can be tested and proven, unlike the creation fairytales written by mortal men just like me and you. Oh, and if everything was created "as is", then how do we have fossils of dinosaurs??? hahaha um, they were created where they lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onyxrhino Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Look at every society and religion in the world. Each one has written it's own creation story. Doesn't that prove to you that Christianity's creation story is just another STORY? What makes it special? It has been shown through past and present societies that man seeks an answer to his own creation, and therefore creates an answer. If you believe in the Christian creation story then you should also believe in Greek Mythology, etc. etc. That's like saying that if you believe in evolution, then you must believe in bloodletting. After all, in a different place and time, that was considered scientifically valid as well. The funny thing about these endless HCFX evolution vs. Christianity debates is that I don't think I've ever met a Christian who opposed the notion of evolution (and I live in the heart of US Bible country). In fact, the only guy I've ever known who really argued against the notion of evolution to me, I'm not even sure would call himself a "Christian" (he was a homosexual art student with lots of unconventional ideas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Faith is a joke. I can have faith that the sky is green but it will always be blue. Why believe something with no proof over something with plenty of proof? It's because we find comfort in believing that there is more to this world than science. That is all. I remember what my guitar teacher told me at 15. "Religion is just a crutch for society, created by society". I thank him for opening my eyes. This is where the conversation breaks down. People wiser and more dedicated to study than you or I maintain their faith... it bears deeper reflection than "It's just opium." I don't treat atheism or evolution this lightly... it's not in one's best interests to be so dismissive when met with points of view different than one's own. I extend my challenge to you: if you can prove that other minds exist, I will give you $1,000,000. You do not realize that daily, you function in a place of assumption. You do not test every though with experimentation. Life, even science, requires certain presuppositions. You've not been inside a lab. You've probably only skimmed a science text book... yet you believe. You've not seen Napoleon or Ghengis Khan... you've not poured over historical documents to prove they actually existed. You accept that they did. Why? Because it's reasonable. Why do you apply a standard to faith that you do not even apply to yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ponda Boba Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy shows that matter cannot be created or destroyed, therefore it must have always been. This can be tested and proven, unlike the creation fairytales written by mortal men just like me and you. Oh, and if everything was created "as is", then how do we have fossils of dinosaurs??? hahahaLook at every society and religion in the world. Each one has written it's own creation story. Doesn't that prove to you that Christianity's creation story is just another STORY? What makes it special? It has been shown through past and present societies that man seeks an answer to his own creation, and therefore creates an answer. If you believe in the Christian creation story then you should also believe in Greek Mythology, etc. etc. Faith is a joke. I can have faith that the sky is green but it will always be blue. Why believe something with no proof over something with plenty of proof? It's because we find comfort in believing that there is more to this world than science. That is all. I remember what my guitar teacher told me at 15. "Religion is just a crutch for society, created by society". I thank him for opening my eyes. just stay open minded, don't let other people tell you what to believe. especially guitar teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixstringmuse Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy shows that matter cannot be created or destroyed, therefore it must have always been. This can be tested and proven, unlike the creation fairytales written by mortal men just like me and you. Oh, and if everything was created "as is", then how do we have fossils of dinosaurs??? hahaha Look at every society and religion in the world. Each one has written it's own creation story. Doesn't that prove to you that Christianity's creation story is just another STORY? What makes it special? It has been shown through past and present societies that man seeks an answer to his own creation, and therefore creates an answer. If you believe in the Christian creation story then you should also believe in Greek Mythology, etc. etc. Faith is a joke. I can have faith that the sky is green but it will always be blue. Why believe something with no proof over something with plenty of proof? It's because we find comfort in believing that there is more to this world than science. That is all. I remember what my guitar teacher told me at 15. "Religion is just a crutch for society, created by society". I thank him for opening my eyes. could you please direct me towards the passage in the bible where it says god didnt create dinosaurs? or where it says dinosaurs didnt evolve from single celled organisms? or where it says anywhere that christianity and science are mortal enemies? your argument: that apple is not round, its red ^not meant to sound so hostile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicVI Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Faith is a joke...It's because we find comfort in believing that there is more to this world than science. That is all.For the record, I'm an agnostic with a BS in geology, but I do believe that if one can find something to give them comfort in this mixed up crazy world well then it's hardly a joke (as long as they don't bother me with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, I have a BS in Geology. I have spent countless hours in a lab, and have read MUCH more than one page in a text book . I apply that standard to myself for science, but I'd say that most christians do not. In fact, if they would do a little research and have a little logic, they'd see through the thin veil that society has put over them. six string, I was only talking about the theory that everything was created "as is", that ben stated. In that case, there would have been no time for the evolution of dinosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, I have a BS in Geology. I have spent countless hours in a lab, and have read MUCH more than one page in a text book . I apply that standard to myself for science, but I'd say that most christians do not. In fact, if they would do a little research and have a little logic, they'd see through the thin veil that society has put over them. six string, I was only talking about the theory that everything was created "as is", that ben stated. In that case, there would have been no time for the evolution of dinosaurs. which society, not the one that preaches there is no god and evolution is fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 six string, I was only talking about the theory that everything was created "as is", that ben stated. In that case, there would have been no time for the evolution of dinosaurs. there's that 'straw man' again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 goodhonk, your telling me to be open minded? Please tell it to your christian friends who never once questioned what the pastor told them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 goodhonk, your telling me to be open minded? Please tell it to your christian friends who never once questioned what the pastor told them. as a pastor, i will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixstringmuse Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 six string, I was only talking about the theory that everything was created "as is", that ben stated. In that case, there would have been no time for the evolution of dinosaurs.sorry i realized that right after i hit submit, i didnt mean to jump all over you for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onyxrhino Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 goodhonk, your telling me to be open minded? Please tell it to your christian friends who never once questioned what the pastor told them. You're making alot of assumptions about Christians. Or do you actually have alot of Christian friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixstringmuse Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 goodhonk, your telling me to be open minded? Please tell it to your christian friends who never once questioned what the pastor told them. well actually this jesus guy sort of wrote a book about questioning their pastors this one time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ben, I have a BS in Geology. I have spent countless hours in a lab, and have read MUCH more than one page in a text book . I apply that standard to myself for science, but I'd say that most christians do not. In fact, if they would do a little research and have a little logic, they'd see through the thin veil that society has put over them. All I could read was BS. :poke: All kidding aside, I'm glad you're a critical thinker. Just as you ask people with faith to critique their beliefs, I'd ask you to do the same with yours. If you can't come to a place where you're able to say, "Yeah... I've got a bucket full of presuppositions too," then you're not looking hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 I was born and raised a republican christian in South Carolina. I no longer am of course, but yea, I have a lot of christian friends and think I can talk from both sides of this equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onyxrhino Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 I was born and raised a republican christian in South Carolina. I no longer am of course, but yea, I have a lot of christian friends and think I can talk from both sides of this equation. So your friends "never once questioned what the pastor told them"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 there's that 'straw man' again. Yes. While it's certainly an option, it's not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 ben allison, I also agree with you that science is incomplete. We do not know how life sparked, and I don't know if we ever will. I know there is plenty out there that science can never explain. I just don't think that's a reason to explain it all away with religion. Both science and religion are creations of man, it's just a matter of which one you want to believe. Once you understand that man created religion, and therefore remove the divine aspect, it's a much weaker argument than hard scientific facts. If you want to keep the divine aspect and say that this is why religion is better, then I will one up you. God wrote my science textbook. He told me in a dream. ^if we're going to make jokes. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Severed Pumpkin Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Houses need foundations. It's a fundamental of logic; if the premise is wrong, the entire argument is worthless.OK, so how does that prove your house is the one with the strongest foundation? I'm not presenting subjective interpretations. I'm presenting established facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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