Members McHale Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Really? You want Roland to start laying people off? No. I want Roland to disappear as if it never existed. As long as that piece of {censored} Roland synth I own sits in a corner, I'm reminded of that horrible company. If they are satisfied with the {censored}ty stuff they put out and satisfied with the {censored}ty support they provide, the only message they are going to understand is {censored}ty sales. Korg'll be the first of the big three to go. I hope that's not true. I don't think any will "go" anyplace. But I do think they will have to re-think their business model and adjust to the times. Soft synths are here to stay and they better learn to take advantage, and not fight it. Look how MP3's changed the music industry. Those who fought it, lost. Those who embraced it, profited. -Mc EDIT: You're right though Audacity, those were Dick/trolling comments... I'll try to back off a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomkeen Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 No. I want Roland to disappear as if it never existed. As long as that piece of {censored} Roland synth I own sits in a corner, I'm reminded of that horrible company. Got something for you: [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Soft synths are here to stay and they better learn to take advantage, and not fight it. Korg already jumped there before others, and did an amazing job. That's what keeps the big players in the game. With such strategies, Korg is never gonna go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 maybe that was part of the problem. they put out a boutique product and missed a majority of the market on the other hand though that doesn't surprise me. those are probably the same people that figure they will just steal the legacy collection and cakewalk or something and if it can't be next to nothing, korg just can't stay relevant in their eyes Yeah, definitely. I mean obviously, if Korg could've sold the OASYS for $2k and made a similar profit to their other products, they would've. So obviously, if something costs $8000, there were either a lot of expensive parts, or more likely, a lot of expensive R&D. The problem is that people see a hunk of metal, a screen, and some knobs, and think "Oh! That should cost this much." They're completely oblivious to the cost of designing and developing a product. The OASYS had been milling about for more than a decade. And according to the story, Roland had been working on V-Piano tech for almost ten years. Surely that couldn't have been cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 :cry: They then plugged it in and it worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Korg already jumped there before othersActually, Waldorf and Access made software versions of their hardware before Korg did. That's what keeps the big players in the game. With such strategies, Korg is never gonna go down.No, what keeps companies like Korg in the game is diversifying. Korg's product line is pretty much limited to keyboards, a couple portable recorders, some tuners, and guitar effects. It's awesome that they make soft versions of their classic hardware synths, and I'd LOVE it if Yamaha and Roland did the same, but you're kidding yourself if you think that Korg's Legacy Collection will single-handedly keep them in the black, especially when that stuff's so easily pirated. Yamaha makes chainsaws and motorcycles. Roland makes broadcast gear and huge printers. They'll be fine for now. And hopefully, Korg will be fine as long as their fanboys bitch incessantly about competitors' products. So... keep up the good work, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 So obviously, if something costs $8000, there were either a lot of expensive parts, or more likely, a lot of expensive R&D. R&D, mostly, I'm sure. One thing that mystifies me, these days: they didn't release a third party library developer SDK. Some "open" architecture. Personally, I think Oasys would've gone much further if they *did* have an SDK. Even controlled third party development would've been an improvement over the current situation. (Same with VariOS for Roland). The free, open nature of the SDKs for audio plugins have really expanded the synthesizer palate today, IMHO. Most plugins I'm sure are not developed to Korg's QC levels, but I'd be curious as to how the upper echelon of plugins stands up to something like the Korg Oasys today. (Example: Anyone up for comparing Omnisphere to Oasys? ) Bits and pieces of OASYS made it into other Korg products, from what I understand. And they've really cornered the "cheap controller" / "cheap noisemaker" market. I imagine they are doing relatively fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Well, since the latest KLC versions they switched to Synchrosoft, those aren't cracked. Well, KLCD is, but only an older version. So... that'll keep their money, at least concerning those who are fair enough to buy and support them. I'm one of those About jumping before others, I should've emphasized "among the big three", sorry about that ^^' Access? Doesn't TI mean you have to have a hardware Virus to run it as a VST and actually hear any sound? Or am I missing something here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 No. I want Roland to disappear as if it never existed. As long as that piece of {censored} Roland synth I own sits in a corner, I'm reminded of that horrible company. If they are satisfied with the {censored}ty stuff they put out and satisfied with the {censored}ty support they provide, the only message they are going to understand is {censored}ty sales.Ah, so this is a personal vendetta? Is this about the D-20? Sorry if I missed the thread, but what happened? They ran out of parts on a 20-year-old keyboard? I've had nothing but great service from Roland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Well, since the latest KLC versions they switched to Synchrosoft, those aren't cracked. Well, KLCD is, but only an older version. So... that'll keep their money, at least concerning those who are fair enough to buy and support them. I'm one of those As am I, tho' all I really find myself using anymore is the Wavestation plug. Access? Doesn't TI mean you have to have a hardware Virus to run it as a VST and actually hear any sound? Or am I missing something here...There's a TDM and TC Powercore plugin of Virus Indigo, but you do have to have ProTools Mix/HD or TC Powercore hardware to run it, so your point is still valid. There's no native VST or AU version of Virus, but I get very similar results with Rob Papen's Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Umbra Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Got something for you: ewww.... fat weaklings. The more I learned about the Korg OASYS, the more impressive it became. Same with the V-Piano.When I hear impressed and digital piano in the same sentence I get sick. The OASYS is what it is, an overly expensive controller and some softsynths. Should have been around $6k. While I completely understand the cost to develop and manufacture something it also matters more what the market is willing to spend to purchase it. With a PC, legacy collection, an M3R, controller, and a sequencer I spent well under the cost of an OASYS and have about the same functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Oh, Wavestation VST is the best thing since sliced bread I also love KLCA, especially LegacyCell. And MDA-FX... Korg's FX section at it's finest! @Umbra - it still doesn't integrate as well as OASYS, so the price is very justified. And you'd still miss the new and vastly improved vector synthesis, think of it as Wavestation 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ribbon Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 The OASYS had been milling about for more than a decade. And according to the story, Roland had been working on V-Piano tech for almost ten years. Good point, T.A.W.... in fact it may be even more than ten years because you could argue that the 'SAS Synthesis' research from the late '80s led onto the virtual acoustics program (check out the marketing blurb for the first RD piano). In summary then: let's all chill out, have a noodle on the synths and wait for Winter NAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mingalicious Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 I don't think we're giving Roland enough credit here. They've revolutionized the keyboard industry for players who've always needed to play the Shakuhachi on a keyboard while moving around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 What is the difference between the 404 and the 404SX? Is it just file format, higher capacity SD card usage and colors? Same question here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 ewww.... fat weaklings.When I hear impressed and digital piano in the same sentence I get sick.Then you're obviously not the V-Piano's market. I'm not really into digital pianos either, but a few of my clients are hardcore piano guys and they love the sound and feel of the V-Piano. Personally, even if I won the lottery, I wouldn't buy a V-Piano, but I'm not the market either. I know tons of people who play piano who would kill for the V.The OASYS is what it is, an overly expensive controller and some softsynths.No, it's not. It's the first true workstation to utilize a non-embedded OS. Anything could've been adjusted to within the confines of DSP horsepower. Korg could've completely redesigned the sequencer, or added any synthesis type under the sun, and the engine could accommodate the changes. Workstations with embedded OSes are much more highly restricted in this regard. Hell, after Roland released the G, Korg could've said "Hey guys! Roland has 128 tracks of MIDI in their G, so here's a free update that does the same thing. Yamaha couldn't do that with the XS and Roland couldn't have done that with the Fantom-X. But Korg didn't do that because the OASYS was discontinued, in no small part because of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerrythek Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 And I can 100% guarantee you that at least one or two firings at Korg were indirectly related to OASYS sales affected by online bitching and misinformation. 100% guarantee that? I rather doubt it - there were no firings at Korg ( I assume you mean Korg USA) related to OASYS sales/performance, or any other issues of that sort. I don't usually jump into these discussions, but that statement of "certainty" just stood out to me. And before someone tries to read deeper, there were no firings anywhere else in the Korg world over OASYS sales. Please return to your conversation, currently still in progress. Regards, Jerry KovarskyKorg Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 And before someone tries to read deeper, there were no firings anywhere else in the Korg world over OASYS sales.Sorry, Jerry. I do love Korg and I didn't mean to spread crap. The intention of my post was this: If Korg has been in the unfortunate position of letting people go (and this is just industry gossip), it's obviously due to sales, and that people on internet forums bitching about the OASYS certainly affected its sales to some extent. Causation is not correlation, but my point was basically "please stop bitching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ah, so this is a personal vendetta? Is this about the D-20? Sorry if I missed the thread, but what happened? They ran out of parts on a 20-year-old keyboard? It was almost brand freakin' new. It was still within warranty! But like I said, I still check out their gear every time I buy more gear and I fail to see what's new or different or exciting compared to their last group of synths I didn't like. I'd be different if I was being a jag for NO reason. I at least have one, no matter how stupid it may be. -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Thanks for that. Saves me from having to do it with mine. I also feel better knowing I'm not the only one that has considered doing that to it! -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 It was almost brand freakin' new. It was still within warranty!So it's a twenty-year-old vendetta. Got it.But like I said, I still check out their gear every time I buy more gear and I fail to see what's new or different or exciting compared to their last group of synths I didn't like.What was the last synth (Roland or otherwise) that got you excited and why? Why has Roland failed for you in this regard? Just trying to figure out where all this hatred is coming from. Wishing bankruptcy and mass firings upon a company is pretty hardcore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerrythek Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hi Audacity: Thanks - and understood. But we all know people skim/read at best, and while your intentions were well-meaning, there were no "if's" and "I'm not sures" in the statement. That's why I jumped in. Everyone knows the economy is "not well" and every sector of business is affected in some way. But smart companies ride the course, don't hide their heads away, and plan for when things will get better. Anything that happens until then is just bumps in the road that we all have to weather. Trust me - Korg will survive. And then some... Regards, Jerry Kovarsky Korg Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Trust me - Korg will survive. And then some... Regards, Jerry Kovarsky Korg Guy Thanks, Jerry. I wish Korg nothing but the best, even though I've been accused of being a Roland fanboy (despite owning a Triton, MS2000R, and KP-2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 So it's a twenty-year-old vendetta. Got it.What was the last synth (Roland or otherwise) that got you excited and why? Why has Roland failed for you in this regard?Just trying to figure out where all this hatred is coming from. Wishing bankruptcy and mass firings upon a company is pretty hardcore. The LAST synth that got me excited was my Triton Pro. The sounds were incredible, the touch screen user interface made programming patches easy and made the rest of the synth a breeze. The user community really jump-started our learning curve on creating patches and we all chipped in to create a massive patch library. I'm STILL in love with this synth for even a lot more reasons. It was my first workstation (well, outside of my beloved D-20 of course) and I could and still can do anything with it. I think I want to be buried with it. The M3 is far superior to the Triton but I didn't get excited about it right away. When I bought it, it felt like another Triton retread. However, when I started to "dive" in, I started to see why it wasn't and how much better it truly was. I have since learned to respect it's power and potential. I grew into this "love affair" and I learn more and more with it every day. I like it so much, I almost bought a 2nd and opted for an M50 instead. Back in the day, the DX7 excited me and it holds it's own today. This was the synth that got away as I couldn't afford when it came out (I was 11 at the time). It's still very relevant. The M1 had me pretty excited and I *STILL* have the demo CD Korg sent me for it. It was ground breaking at the time and still holds it's own. The OASYS excited me like you wouldn't believe, I just wasn't in the target market. I could afford one easy enough, it's just wasn't the right fit for what I did musically at the time. As a side note, I almost picked it up instead of the M3. But Roland? Seriously? I *STILL* don't like their sounds and I don't like their user interface. I'm in music stores all the time and I play everyone's gear, all of the time. I've played every Roland product since the D-20 and I've never gotten a grin on my face or had to talk myself OUT of buying one of their products. But most recently, I detest the fact that they had this HUGE countdown like they were releasing something as revolutionary as the first automobile just to push more of the same. Talk about a let down... again. As far as my "20 year grudge," Roland didn't just turn their back on me as a consumer, they slammed the door in my face and told me to take a hike as far as I'm concerned. And I *DO* hold grudges when it's intentional. Seriously, a 9 month old synth had issues and since nobody could reproduce the issue in the 5 minutes they left it on, they gave me a service manual and told me to fix it myself, basically. The entire story on this would make for a VERY long thread. One that I don't plan on reliving. But I'll give you the ending, it's still broken. After the thing has been on for 30 to 60 minutes, it will just shut off on it's own. Sometimes the display will even stay lit when it shuts off too. But Korg earned my respect with good products and unbelievable support. Korg always treated me like a big shot "famous" musician, even though I'm just another forum lurker playing in a band. I'll give ANY company my business that treats me well when they don't have to. But I'll never buy from a company who treats me poorly when they didn't have to. But don't think for a second that some of the Korg staffers don't cringe just at the sight of me starting a new thread on a Korg product. It's either a complaint or a warranty-voiding hack. Yamaha and Kurz products have always sounded fantastic and I have nothing bad to say about them if you're curious. So for Roland staffers reading this thread, here's your lesson: First impressions are a bitch when they go badly. And who knew 20 years ago that the {censored}ty treatment I received will haunt you today? If I can talk one person out of a Roland, it was all worth it. -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 And who knew 20 years ago that the {censored}ty treatment I received will haunt you today Ya' know , I think their stocks just dropped......You go get 'em ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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